My M started to crumble about 3 years ago. I was temp. disabled by first pregnancy ( 6 years ago) and when I got pregnant again ( it all came back) we decided to move closer to home for childcare help. H got a job but working shifts. He works 5 and is off 5 and is out of the house for 14hrs each shift. With tiny baby and 21/2 yr old our ENs weren't being met (although managed to keep up the SF) I became v good at coping as single mum for the 5 days he was off - but then he and i found it hard to work it out when he was back with us.

We'd always had loads of RC and worked together too - had a fab M.

H always slightly prone to depression and AO - this got worse and worse and on occasion was violent and aggressive.

I escaped every mon to partake in a group hobby and about 20 months ago met OM, we became friends and spent time together doing hoobby and just talking in addition to mon.

I didn't take any notice of the way the friendship was developing ( only now I look back I can see theat love bank filling -admiration, conversation, rec com, conv) and H knew we were seeing each other apart from mon and encouraged it cos he could see I was more relaxed because of it.

I then realised after 4 months that I was falling inlove and told H, he was fine. Just said well back off a bit and cut down on SMS and meetings. H and I went to MC. WE talked about OM and other parts of our M but never the Violence (but did the AO).

We continued -trying to give each other more time but I was still friendly with OM. I had another realisation a few months later and we backed off a bit again.

In the last 6 months M going disastorously down hill - H totally awful but then I wasn't meeting some of his EN cos I had OM ( didn't excuse some of his behaviour though). I decided to leave ( not for OM, Just for me and the kids, to set up by ourselves). H begged me to stay - i did.

Started to get more and more friendly with OM and did fall in love. At Xmas I wanted to leave H again ( still not to be with OM though) and then I suddenly realised how stressed I was with trying to see OM and did some research on EA which lead me to MBs and seriously opened my eyes.

I confessed New Years Day and NC sent week after. H adn I have doen EN questionnaire and I thought he was really buying in to it we spent several hours reading the Q and A and principals together.

I am now trying to make our time to focus on REc Com, but he doesn't seem to get it - came home lst night and said he was going to swap a shift ( an optional business request)so that he could spend some time with the kids at the weekend, but he was going to swap for a day when we could have had a valuable afternoon alone together. He has now said that he want s to go to toddlers with DS instead of spending a whole morning with me.

We get v few evenings together cos of the shifts - the children are around at the weekends and I do work 3 mornings in the week - so our time alone together is quite rare.

I know that we need this time alone together - he thinks I'm being unreasonable and unrealistic, Over the last few days he has had several AO(which with his past record are obviously my hugest LB) and I keep trying to offer the olive branch, meet his ENs . What can I do???

I have spent nearly the whole of this week alone -not only because of our day to day stuff but cos on his days off he spent 2 nights at his parents (a genuine necessity for them which I don't begrudge). I am v v lonely and I really need him him to plan some time with me and get this back on track.

Right now i am putting all my effort into this cos I know OM's wife is at work right now and he will be thinking of me. Does that sound like emotional blackmail ( i haven't said it to H)it isn't meant to be - it's just how I feel.

I so so so so want us tocome out of this smiling the other side and I thought we were doing so well.

What can I do????

Has your hubby exposed the affair to the OM's wife?

Have you written the OM a no contact letter?

Tell us more about your husband's violence toward you.

You are going to have to give your BH a little bit of time to figure things out. As in figure out if he still does want to work things out.

More details would be nice as believer said.

What violence? Towards you?

ST,

The hardest part of the fog is not knowing you're in it.

You don't know when you're lying to yourself and when you're not. Reality becomes too slippery to touch.

You're setting your BH up to fail. You're still in a wayward state of mind. You continue to attack your marriage. I don't see a single molecule of remorse for your A in your post.

Of course, you've only been NC for 22 days, correct?

And this A was nearly a year long? You've got more months of withdrawal to get through...might be me wanting you not to set up your BH.

Why would he want to spend time with you right now? You cut him to his bones...and his wounds are still fresh...you haven't changed your outlook...he may not want to be married to you any longer. Might not be able to stomach it. For at any time, you can choose to do it again...for you still have the ingredients active in yourself...

an affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. (Gimble)

When you have those active ingredients, you will continue to have fog...it's the toxic gas that the combination emits.

Did your MC look you in the eye and tell you that first meeting that you cannot have any connect with OM if you were choosing your marriage? If not, get a pro-marriage one who will be as honest with you guys as requires your honesty for each session.

Your BH may not express how you choosing to make his worst, deepest fear come true feels inside...will take two years or more to recover, ST...you just sliced somebody a part emotionally...were abusive for nearly a year. You betrayed him, your marriage and yourself and lied so much, so often...justified, excused...that becomes our habit. Gotta break those habits.

Grieving the loss of your marriage...for that one got tanked...means putting O&H before RC...means holding yourself responsible every step of the way, inserting new boundaries...and getting your focus off where it's toxic and disrespectful...all over BH...and onto you, because you didn't get your ENs, you may lose your marriage, including your children's intact home.

Work on that part yourself. Work on the part where you betray yourself when someone is violent, has an AO, and think if you really feared him, you wouldn't have done this to a violent man, would you?

Many times, someone who doesn't AO feels more in control when their spouse does it...an odd attraction (opposites attract)...they use them through guilt and feel falsely better about themselves, better than their spouse...so you really don't want the violence, the AO's to stop...so you don't see where you mock, maybe not respond, refute, discount or dismiss...knowing he'll ignite.

And hurt. The betrayal keeps hurting, ST. Have you fantasized about what it will feel like for you to look into your kids eyes in five years and answer them when they ask "Did you cheat on Daddy? Why'd you do that? Did he hurt you?" Because they will look for ways to justify what you did...you're their mother...and later, justify it for themselves...because it's a legacy. We pass it down...in just this way.

So learn all parts of your whys, hows, where you don't own (and think you do) your choices, and what false payoffs you are in the habit of...dispell your own fantasy. Break it apart...instead of your family.

LA

Ok,

NC email sent, have recieved one text ince - a test I think, just asking about a friend in shared hobby ( which I have now given up) ( H and I share phone, we just deleted it). OM's wife not informed. Why bother??

H has had counselling for depression. Violent first when DS 3 months - winded me (before OM). occasion 2 (just met OM, vaguely friends): Threw v heavy object at my back bruising ribs.
Rolled me onto floor and threatened with fist plus more threatening/ pinning.

He very much seems to have recovered with the counselling and the realisation that he is responsible for his actions not me. Now when he has AO he just swears and strops. I'm not stupid, I wouldn't stick around if I didn't think that between us we could keep it under control. He's been under serious pressure the last 6months and has done a fantastic job - he has a totally different out look on life. I know that he is very different to the way he was and has put a tremendous effort into his anger management. I think I have been using the old "usefulmemory trick" to sort of justify the EA in recent months.

I don't think he will forgive himself. But I have moved on (just in the last few weeks) I think if I hadn't I wouldn't have given up OM.


We have just had another chat about this on the phone as he is at work - he thinks there is too much pressure to make this work.

Maybe I do need to give him time to get his head around things, I'm just scared of losing momentum - desperately clinging to this hopet hat we can get this working properly again.

Poor DS was showing signs of depresion for the months b4 xmas. Since Dday when me and H have been so much happier and together he has been cheeky lively chappy again - today with us being crap he's been clingy and mopey again.

I just want to get it all fixed for all of us asap

LA
Can't really disagree with a lot of what you have said.

When it is good with H, I am truly truly remorseful and the thought of the A makes me feel sick. I didn't think I was very foggy but actually maybe I am.

Please can I have just a teeny weeny bit of credit for confessing and grabbing the bull by it's horns?

ST

Ummmm ST...WOW...Do you realize how very cruel and selfish that sounds?

OMW's was your victim, and has the right to the truth about her own life so she can make decisions accordingly...

OMW's MUST be told...When will your husband be informing her?

Mrs. W

You've got the beginnings of solid NC...sent the email together...share the phone and didn't hide OM's contact...so you're staying transparent. Good job.


Flip this over...ask your BH to think of the OMW knowing about your A, you not telling him anything, not one step of the way, and then hearing her say, "Why bother?"

That's gotta hurt. First of all, if you're now committed to staying honest (transparency is part of it), then it isn't a compartmentalized honesty...which it was when you first told him of the feelings you were having and said you'd stop (then you didn't); you lied a lot by omission, even from yourself. If you do the "doesn't affect my family" routine, then you're still in that do what's easier (conflict is hard) not what's right.

Inform the OMW and let go the response. That's what you need to practice to get into reality again...hold yourself to doing what is healthy for your marriage...even if it's darn hard for you or BH. Informing her means you held yourself to being honest and you gave your marriage a better shot at being protected. And you stood for the reality that is their marriage, too.

You not only attacked your marriage, you attacked her marriage, too.

That's why bother. Not because you inform...because you had an A with a married man.


Good catch...when you fall in lust with resentment, it has many tricks to feed itself...this is one of them. You dwell where you have no power...we have no power in the past or the future; we have no power in others...only in ourselves. Power is responsibility. Where you dwell, there is your treasure...you teach yourself to treasure that which you focus on.

Your BH has made progress to acting out verbally from physically in three years. What progress did you make during that time? How radically did you change?

You don't know if he will forgive himself for his past actions (or more recent AO's)...if you focus on his stuff, you won't know if you will forgive yourself, when this, too, becomes your real past. Right now, it's your present.

Try giving up your justifications...and find out if those are harder than ditching OM...who doesn't respect what you say enough to not contact you. Even once. On an excuse. He thinks you're that stupid.

Stop focusing on getting "it" to work and focus on doing your work. Promise to state aloud when you are fantasizing, dwelling in the past, justifying--that resentment can disguise itself as comfort, relief, distraction from fear...and it's poison you're taking with every thought.

You're in the habit of resenting, creating and maintaining your fuel levels...focus on breaking it.

There's no doubt your marriage can recover and thrive...that's not hope, it's fact. Doesn't mean it will happen. Only within your power is your personal recovery from such a heinous act, and half of the marital recovery.

Understand your BH may choose not to recover...may choose that tomorrow, in three months, in a year. He's shell shocked right now, and stressed from betraying himself, your betrayal, and a ton of complex feelings, all at once.

He doesn't have to be onboard for you to save your marriage. Take the actions...own your stuff...keep owning it...do what is terribly bothersome, difficult, fills you with fear...so you can personally recover and not put yourself, your children or anyone through this again.

You see how each day your stuff affects your child's stuff. Did you tell yourself DS wouldn't know, comprehend, understand that you shoved him aside in your thoughts, therefore, your deeds? Kids know...even very young...that your thoughts were elsewhere...and they deal with a shadow of what BH does...you didn't love him enough to not hurt his daddy so badly; you didn't care about how miserable you'd make him, the shame of feeling replaced, used and discarded. Kids feel that, too.

He's young enough to still be at the "mommy and me are one" stage...which does include daddy, too...OM didn't give a crap about your DS, or his own. He was addicted to his feelings. Get to know what he did, so you can see better what you did to his kids, too, 'k?

The deepest bonds of marriage are not forged in happiness...but in staying present with each other through rough times.

You can't make this better, ST. You can't make the marriage be what it wasn't, isn't...and you don't get a say anymore if the marriage continues. You forfeited that.

LA

Staytogether,

I realize you are in the "fog", but I am confused.

1. You moved to be near family primarily for you and your physcial condition, right?

2. Your H had to change jobs and found one, I presume the only reasonable one, but it was shift work with long days. Right?

3. Your H has even shifted shifts so he could be around his children, which I would say he clearly cares for because he moved and took a job he apparently doesn't derive much satisfaction from so that they could be well cared for.

4. You resent his work hours and think he should spend time with you rather than children. Right?

5. You have had an affair and you did it in front of your H. He initially realized he could not provide what he thought you needed because of his work, so he said fine. I doubt he approved an affair, but he had your interests at heart.

6. You describe him as violent and an abuser, yet you admit he is under a lot of pressure at work, at home, and with you.

7. You expect HIM to change but I see no evidence YOU have changed your outlook. Right?

Are you seeing a pattern to my observations based on what you have said? I do.

I would like your comments and insight based on what I have said.

God Bless,

JL

Because she is your victim and needs to know? She really needs to know the truth and I doubt she is likely to get the truth from her H. The least that you can do after what you have done is make sure she knows the truth so she can protect herself from her H and you. Would your H be willing to call her and tell her?

OMW needs to be told.

You need to tell your BH that he should and you want him to tell the OMW.

Thank you to every one for your input. It has been eye opening for both H and I.

The commom theme from all your posts is that OMW needs to know. H has, since reading this, has been debating the idea and I think he wants to give it a go. Can anyone point me in the direction of what sort of thing needs to be said?

I know that my behaviour isn't justifiable and that we do choose our own actions make our own decisions ultimately but as you all know it is easy to get caught up in justifying bad behaviour. Thank you to those of you that reminded me of this.

The one thing that both I and H find rather strange - almost alarming is that JL seems to be excusing his violent behaviour????

"[i]You describe him as violent and an abuser, yet you admit he is under a lot of pressure at work, at home, and with you."



ST

LA

Both H and I found your response a comfort. You seem to have the jist of the prob and it looks like a semnsible way to move on.

He was pleased that you were able, so eloquently, to put into words how he felt - he hasn't really shown me or told me how he feels and I think this might be the icebreaker for him (for when wee next see each other properly).

Your explanations of my fog have really opened my eyes to some of my thought processes and denials and I have been working with that all day.

I Know that I have to correct me first and foremost and at the same time really demonstrate to H how I feel for him and meet his needs at the mo - whether that is time and space or loving or both or what ever.

H and I were to vague about OM in MC - I'mnot sure whether he picked up on it - I guess I wanted him to otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up-but he didn't.

We have had a much better day today - I have comet o understand a lot more.

LA what are your thoughts on OMW?

ST

soz i see now, missed thebeginning bit!!! doh

I would suggest he call and disguise his phone # using *67. That way the OM doesn't see the caller ID and intercept the call. He should call and ask for the OMW and give her that facts. She will be shocked so it is best to give his name and phone # in case she wants to call back later and ask more questions.

The OMW will be devastated so he needs to be very kind to her.

JL

Both H and I have wry smiles reading your post -seems to cover some points of the initial conflict that send us on the downward spiral. Would love to know your experiences.

When it comes down to it though we agreed that if we had a 2nd child we would need to move and that we would both have to give up our jobs. We both agreed when the time came to start trying and we were both committed to this. Although I do confess he thought we would have been able to manage without moving and I was terrified of being housebound/ almost chairbound in a cottage a long way from villages in any direction with a 2 year old. There were other reasons for themove - he is froma v small family and loved being part of my larger family and wanted his children to enjoy that too.

I don't think he should spend more time with me than with the children. I think it would be good if we could spend just some time alone together to chew things over.

H does derive satisfaction from his job and loves the fact that his hours mean that he cando school pick ups and drop offs and that he can be around in the holidays.

I did resent it yes - a lot especially when after a year of the shifts he turned down a job where he was very keen to work (where we were working when we met)which was normal hours and excellent benefits because it paid a few grand less, (we were comfortable at the time), but I have begun to see the benefits. I guess like any one really, I wish we could spend more time together. I s'pose I thought it would be so much nicer if our lives could run in a 7 day week like everyone around us.

Yes he has been violent and an abuser and he regrets it and knows there is no justification for it and is ocncerned that anyone out there could think that it could be excuseable.

My outlook has changed over the the last few years - I have become a lot more focussed on the children and myself and I have been neglecting H. I now realise that that withdrawl has only made things worse. In the last 6months I have become so much more appreciative of everything that he has done for me and the family.

I understand now and I have realised and I am changing

Staytogether,

You said
There is a difference between excuses and reasons.

But what I didn't say since I was under the impression I was talking to only you and not your husband is that you have found his behavior acceptable, where I would not.

If in fact he is reading, my comment to him is simple:

Grow up, act like a man and find a better way to handle stress and frustration than acting like a 6 year old boy. Get into counseling and figure out why you think this is acceptable behavior.

Back to ST. I told you this because frankly you know he is violent, you know he is an abuser, you know he is under pressure at work, at home, and with you, and yet you continue to apply pressure. Do you think this is smart behavior? I sure don't.


God Bless,

JL

aaahhhh i see! Apologies for the misunderstanding

He has grown up. He has done conselling and he finds it far from acceptable.

No, applying the pressure is never sensible and I guess now with the pressure A put on him the back end of last year I know just how far he has come and just how much pressure he can take - that wasn't a conscious intention btw.

Yeah, I get it now. I have backed off soon as I read the posts this morning

Thank you for the clarification

ST

ST,

Your affair has not been over a month. You have left him twice or wanted to, all in recent history. I will tell you, that AO's are not uncommon for a BS especially in the first month or so. I am not justifying it, but to expect no anger, to expect him to trust that you truly do care, to expect him be comfortable in this mess right now, is too much to expect.

I have observed in my 7+ decades on this planet, that people who enjoy one another tend to spend as much time as they can being together. Not always possible but it is a goal of theirs.

You two need to work on needs. YOu two need to learn to empathize and see things from the other persons point of view. You two need tools to handle relationship issues (they are here and in Harley's books). And finally you two need to learn to trust yourselves before you can trust the other one.

Frankly, ST, your H would be loony to trust you right now. You have betrayed him deeply. Given his anger issues, you would be loony to trust him, and even more so to put added pressure on him, given his limited coping skills.

Your job is not to have a life like everyone elses. Your job is to have a life that you both find rewarding and that nutures your children.

Think about that.

God Bless,

JL