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It is a situation where your W had no problem being separated from you for almost 4 years. She had no problem having affairs or was it one long affair? JL - I don't know if you know or think it matters, but it was one A. She had moved in with OM. Moved out after d-day, but maintained contact by phone. The first NC was just a total BS. The last attempts were 2-6 month periods were she was in NC, but then OM would dig up some excuse to call her and within a few days, they were back to talking on the phone 4-5 times a day. While we did not live together, we saw each other about every two weeks and talked on the phone daily. And she never called it a separation. I would say based on your comments you are "indifferent". Yes. Overall. But I would say I get there because their are some things about her I care very much for and others that I despise. Gather data, and I think things will become very clear to you. Okay.
Me 43 BH MT 43 WW Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats D-day July, 2005 4.5 False Recoveries Me - recovered The M - recovered
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But please, do something, dammit. Okay. Not sure it's going to "count" though.
Me 43 BH MT 43 WW Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats D-day July, 2005 4.5 False Recoveries Me - recovered The M - recovered
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rprynne,
What would you miss if you divorced your wife? Do you think that you could find these things with another woman? (I ask myself these questions a lot).
Nobody is perfect. But, this woman has shown a level of disrespect for you as a man that is appalling. Living with the OM? What must she think of you as a man to do that? And what must you think of yourself to allow her to come home after doing it?
I'm not trying to be a pr!ck, really. It just makes me wonder what she really thinks of marriage. You are so lucky that you don't have kids.
Me 42 W 41
M 15 Y 2 Kids
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But please, do something, dammit. Okay. Not sure it's going to "count" though. Then why do it? Why waste your time anymore doing nothing that never counts?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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What would you miss if you divorced your wife? Its not that I would miss anything. Its that I would have failed to live up to my marriage vows. Because I hold that view, many would assume that I am a marriage at all costs person. I am not. I understand that their are cicumstances where one would have the right to break that vow. I further understand their are cicumstances where one would have to break that vow. So, I am the middle. Clearly, I have the right, but I do not know that I have to. Do you think that you could find these things with another woman? (I ask myself these questions a lot). Most likely. Things would be much easier for me if I did that. Nobody is perfect. But, this woman has shown a level of disrespect for you as a man that is appalling. Living with the OM? What must she think of you as a man to do that? And what must you think of yourself to allow her to come home after doing it? I imagine you might disagree, but this is looking at the person with no regard for the circumstance. (A theme, that in one way or another gets discussed here often). My wife was not this way until we lost our daughter.
Me 43 BH MT 43 WW Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats D-day July, 2005 4.5 False Recoveries Me - recovered The M - recovered
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But please, do something, dammit. Okay. Not sure it's going to "count" though. Then why do it? Why waste your time anymore doing nothing that never counts? My point was that I imagine even if I did go to the MB weekend, when I post of my situation again, you would tell me I have done nothing.
Me 43 BH MT 43 WW Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats D-day July, 2005 4.5 False Recoveries Me - recovered The M - recovered
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But please, do something, dammit. Okay. Not sure it's going to "count" though. Then why do it? Why waste your time anymore doing nothing that never counts? My point was that I imagine even if I did go to the MB weekend, when I post of my situation again, you would tell me I have done nothing. Well, imagination is not truth, though. And you are right, it might not count. What will your next step be if that is the case?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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rprynne,
I had no idea you lost a daughter. I apologize for my words about not having kids. Gosh I . . . am and a$$. I think I may go back into lurk mode.
Listen, I guess all I am trying to say is you either have to take or chance that your wife can be what you need in this marriage or you need to bail. Please don't waste the life you have left doing nothing.
She may crush you or she may be the friend/lover/wife that you need and want. She broke your heart already rp, what is there left to lose? Give it a try for six months. Keep detached a bit and just enjoy the moment if you can. Your wife is probably in there somewhere. I hope she shines through and soon. She is a very lucky woman to have you and I hope that someday she really sees that.
Me 42 W 41
M 15 Y 2 Kids
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RP,
Just a thought.
Could it perhaps be that you are afraid of being alone?
You stuck it out with a half-way relationship with your w or ww or whatever without ever moving on to a new relationship. You didn't really have to, bc she was always sort of there, half in half out.
When you finally felt you might have the courage or sufficient motivation to D, you told your wife, and she ran home.
Divorcing is a big step towards a new and uncharted life. It would require learning to trust a new woman and dating and possibly being rejected or rejecting someone.
Are your feelings of indifference really rooted in fear of moving on and having to face the prospect of facing the unknown, after a horrible experience with your last relationship?
The relationship with your wife, as bad and uncertain as it is...is it potentially more comfortable than that prospect?
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But please, do something, dammit. Okay. Not sure it's going to "count" though. Then why do it? Why waste your time anymore doing nothing that never counts? My point was that I imagine even if I did go to the MB weekend, when I post of my situation again, you would tell me I have done nothing. Well, imagination is not truth, though. And you are right, it might not count. What will your next step be if that is the case? I would get a divorce.
Me 43 BH MT 43 WW Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats D-day July, 2005 4.5 False Recoveries Me - recovered The M - recovered
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I had no idea you lost a daughter. I apologize for my words about not having kids. Gosh I . . . am and a$$. I think I may go back into lurk mode. Don't sweat it. I was not saying that to be rough. I was saying it more from the stand point that it is difficult for me to have the same "rage" or "anger" towards my FWW about how she treated me, when it is mixed in with the compassion I feel about the circumstance. Keep posting Listen, I guess all I am trying to say is you either have to take or chance that your wife can be what you need in this marriage or you need to bail. Please don't waste the life you have left doing nothing. I agree.
Me 43 BH MT 43 WW Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats D-day July, 2005 4.5 False Recoveries Me - recovered The M - recovered
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RP,
Just a thought.
Could it perhaps be that you are afraid of being alone? That is possible. But I really don't think so. I once talked with SH about this. If you are curious, I can post what he said.
Me 43 BH MT 43 WW Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats D-day July, 2005 4.5 False Recoveries Me - recovered The M - recovered
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RP,
Just a thought.
Could it perhaps be that you are afraid of being alone? That is possible. But I really don't think so. I once talked with SH about this. If you are curious, I can post what he said. I am curious because I was, and still am. I have found that I need not be nervous about it though. A single guy in his early forties with a good job that loves his kids is apparently a hot commodity and while i am certainly no brad pitt, i seem to be a target these days for a lot of very nice attractive women, or their friends or parents seem to think that i am looking for someone and are eager to set me up. I am definitely not ready. I asked if you felt the same way as I am thinking, frankly it seems like a real hurdle to ever get close to someone else again without the fear or being hurt again or just seems like a lot of investment in time and effort. Sorry, this whole question feels like a thread jack...
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RP,
I have been away from the computer for a while and just got caught up on the thread.
AND, I think I know (empathize) where you are coming from.
YOU have been the one on the high road,
YOU are the one who suffered the slings and arrows...and held your head high.
YOU are the one who did the stations of the MB cross, with limited, if any, results.
SO you tell her this long distance dealio is not working, so let's call it quits and OMG, low and behold, she quits her job and moves back home!!
Oh My!!
NOW IT IS HER TURN FOR THE HEAVY LIFTING!!
It is up to her to convince you to stay in the M. She should be making it up to you hand over fist. She must do the penance by committing to the M.
She should be doing the FWW version of the PLAN A showing you how she can AND HOPEFULLY WILL BE from now on. She should be trying very hard to WIN YOU BACK!!
You said that she was doing this by MAKING YOU HAPPY. Now that sound like a good thing...correct?
How happy do you have to be before you call it a good M and not the sham of old.
What made it a sham? I got the hint there was a lack of intimacy. For thirteen years?
I did forget about your daughter's passing, sorry. What year in the M did this happen?
And do you have a time frame? How long will you give her to prove it?
Anyway, what some are calling apathy on your part, I believe is more of "come on honey, show me what you got". Show me how bad you want to stay with me, and make me believe it.
And, I must tell you my friend, I think it is totally justified.
IMHO
kirk
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RP,
I have been away from the computer for a while and just got caught up on the thread.
AND, I think I know (empathize) where you are coming from.
YOU have been the one on the high road,
YOU are the one who suffered the slings and arrows...and held your head high.
YOU are the one who did the stations of the MB cross, with limited, if any, results.
SO you tell her this long distance dealio is not working, so let's call it quits and OMG, low and behold, she quits her job and moves back home!!
Oh My!!
NOW IT IS HER TURN FOR THE HEAVY LIFTING!!
It is up to her to convince you to stay in the M. She should be making it up to you hand over fist. She must do the penance by committing to the M.
She should be doing the FWW version of the PLAN A showing you how she can AND HOPEFULLY WILL BE from now on. She should be trying very hard to WIN YOU BACK!!
You said that she was doing this by MAKING YOU HAPPY. Now that sound like a good thing...correct?
How happy do you have to be before you call it a good M and not the sham of old.
What made it a sham? I got the hint there was a lack of intimacy. For thirteen years?
I did forget about your daughter's passing, sorry. What year in the M did this happen?
And do you have a time frame? How long will you give her to prove it?
Anyway, what some are calling apathy on your part, I believe is more of "come on honey, show me what you got". Show me how bad you want to stay with me, and make me believe it.
And, I must tell you my friend, I think it is totally justified.
IMHO
kirk rprynne, As you know, we've posted back and forth to each other since I came here 18 months ago, but I don't think I've posted to you on this thread ... mainly because I have never really understood what makes you tick and didn't want to be the downer telling you to move on. I've always liked you and felt somewhat connected, but we always seemed to be on slightly different pages. However, krusht's post above hit a nerve with me and I think I have a better understanding of where you are, and what you are seeking. If krusht's post resonates with you like I think it will, then I'd like to offer up my encouragement. I'll admit to never being much a fan of your (F)WW ... I just saw her as treating you with extreme indifference, but then she does something unexpected like quitting her job when you had reached the end of your rope. Maybe she really was one of those WW's who had to really be faced with a future without you, before she woke up to what a great guy she was pushing away. I TRULY HOPE THAT IS THE CASE. Anyway, I think you are very smart to remain guarded, but I now see some hope for her to step up, "IF" you will continue to set the recovery bar very high for her. Obviously, she has a high skill set to have advanced so far in her profession, let's see if she has what it takes to rise to a more PERSONAL challenge. Don't short-change yourself, and don't accept anything less than what you deserve for your faith and belief in a future with her. She SHOULD be the one doing the HEAVY LIFTING at this point, and you should be encouraging her to put her entire soul into that effort. Regardless, you're fortunes took a surprising upward turn when you defended your boundaries ... it doesn't seem prudent to ease up now that things have turned somewhat in your favor. You never said if you were an offensive or defensive lineman ... whichever it was ... now is the time to BOTH defend YOUR goal, while you open a huge hole for HER to carry the ball forward. Yeah, I know, its a bad mixed metaphor, but I think you'll understand the meaning. Hang tough, my friend. BTW, GREAT POST, krusht!!!
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MyRev, Thanks for the kind words :RollieEyes: (can't leave these alone!) RP, MyRev wrote: ""Regardless, you're fortunes took a surprising upward turn when you defended your boundaries ... it doesn't seem prudent to ease up now that things have turned somewhat in your favor."" Which is a very good point and advice. I wonder if you consider her moving back as your fortunes taking an upward turn? It must not be dull around the old homestead now. Remember, you are the one who told her you were lonely. Watch out what you wish for!! :crosseyedcrazy: kirk
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RP my affair started as an exit affair after the loss of our son. I felt my DH abandoned me and our kids ... he was deployed and as it happened involved in some heavy fighting .. but I didn't care HE ABANDONED us was all I could see. So I blamed him for everything and wanted to hurt him. yes stupid but that's what I did.
to cut a long story short he took a risk on me .... I didn't have any idea how to repair what I wrecked ... I learned I couldn't ... so we have a NEW marriage. I did slowly take on the booking of MC and IC and whatever I could ... my H was not that prepared to work too hard to recover our M as I had done such a SUPER job of hurting him. Like you he went along reluctantly and usually watched the seagulls on the river during the MC sessions. It took some time for him to say much.
The thing is there is NO WAY to not put yourself at risk in any recovery plan or action. I wish for any BS there was.. but there isn't.
IF your F?WW is really wanting to try recovery why not have her do the running around ... I know its not much but at least if she booked the MB weekend .. the SH sessions etc ...you could see some commitment from her. Another thing is I bet SH would pick up pretty quickly if she was playing games or not committed.
Why not just ask your w to do some of this work for you right now. A refusal would certainly let you know that no matter how much she may say she is remorseful that your M is not that important after all to her.
However if you don't want to do MB weekend or sessions then maybe plan D is YOUR only real option.
whatever you decide I pray you will find peace and happiness.
aw
Life may feel as if you are constantly getting kicked on a daily basis, living is about picking yourself up each day and going on and on and on regardless.
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The thing is there is NO WAY to not put yourself at risk in any recovery plan or action. I wish for any BS there was.. but there isn't. Wise words AW!!
Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW) D-Day August 2005 Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23 Empty Nesters. Fully Recovered.
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RP!! Come on DUDE, you started this dialogue.........what's up???
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RP!! Come on DUDE, you started this dialogue.........what's up??? Sorry, just got back from a trip. I will respond today.
Me 43 BH MT 43 WW Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats D-day July, 2005 4.5 False Recoveries Me - recovered The M - recovered
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