Sounds like a fair question to me based on your posts. I'm sure MrsW was not meaning to be rude.

I think it was the insinuation that she is benefitting from Govt. handouts, yet taking cruises. I think Verve may have felt a little defensive as not all beneficiaries are ripping off the system, are elegable for assistance, and a holiday is always in order IMO for people newly in recovery, espcially with a one off windfall.

I talk to verve offlist, and I know why she has the means to take a trip, and I don't begrudge her one bit.

Thank you, Mrs. W, for explaining. It seemed, from your post, that you were trying to insinuate something. It seemed odd for you to bring it up in this thread, out of the blue, instead of posting in my personal thread or, if sincerely concerned, asking through email since my address is clearly written on the bottom of each of my posts.
We can afford a vacation by budgeting and saving just as any other couple and the government knows all about our income so no worries there.

Edit: I tried to write something very unemotional and only factual, but, honestly, I am deeply offended by the insinuation in your first post, whether it was deliberate or not. You have never posted to me before this that I recall and I respectfully ask that you keep it that way. Thank you.

that's the danger of over generalization i suppose. Point well taken. Its from my little world of growing up in a large Italian family in a small mining town in Canada. The NHL brought me down this side of the border back in another life. Rwinger is a position and not necessarily a political stance - btw.

There are couple of old threads - heartsore22 [if I recall] and another from last year (wife discovered the thread and its gone) that involved a WAW with young kids that shook me down to my core.

Hopefully not t/j too much - but the first clue I had of something amiss is when on Valentines Day 04 (for newbies this is the holiest of days for waywards) my wife received a dozen roses and mentioned that the OM said I was a schmuck for not doing the same. Basically I had never took the "hallmark" holidays seriously - always thought of them as marketing ploys. Oh boy was I wrong and a schmuck. Now I romance the heck of my wife everyday and esp Valentine's Day.

I think most all husbands go through a "jerk" stage. I am lucky b/c I woke up in time.

Verve, not to beat a dead horse, but as taxpayer, I am offended to see my tax dollars go to a family that can afford cruises. I work my fanny off and pay thousands of dollars every year in taxes so you betcha I resent that. I very much want my tax dollars to go to people who really need it, not those who don't need it. Hopefully, you can understand that taxpayers might also be as offended as you since they are footing the bill, which I suspect may be the point of MrsW's post.

Perhaps. But I'd imagine there are plenty of WSs that can think the AP is good enough to [censored] but not good enough to marry. lol warped thinking considering the source but I think that happens.


My FWH's cake eating days ended on Dday so the above does not apply in my case. Had H continued cake eating after discovery, we would be divorced today. If a wayward continues to be a cake eater or becomes a WAS after Dday I don't see much of a difference between them at that point other than perhaps the WAS is more "invested" in the A and thinks their relationship is the real deal and/or is more fogged out. In both cases, the WS would be adding insult to injury by continuing the A after Dday. I don't think the WAS is being more "honest" but I see what you are saying. It could be that the WAS is done or it could be that they just aren't willing to deal with BS's "drama" (their thinking)and figure they might as well keep on screwing OP while they can because they think or know the BS will take them back later.

Just b/c the government knows your income (it's legal) doesn't mean it is morally correct to accept handouts, while saving money for vacations and cruises.

Yes, that was certainly one of my points, Mel...Marshmallow also made another excellent point...

The thing is, my post wasn't really an "insinuation"...The FACTS were posted by you, Verve...I could simply have posted them together and said NOTHING...Your own words tell the story quite well all by themselves...

And sure, a "holiday" is great in early recovery if you can afford it...But that vacation could just as easily be taken at home or somewhere near home [it's the TIME together that counts]...It doesn't have to be a cruise in April, when the prices are inflated for Spring Break...[Mr. W and I were thinking of taking a cruise ourselves then, however, when we really thought it through, we think we are more likely to do so in the summer months when both cruise and airfare prices are down...And sure, we can afford it at anytime of year, but why spend the extra money when you can get the same thing at another time of year? If we do find a "deal" at that time, we may go then, but we are paying our own way in all aspects of our life.]

Also, Verve, never are wise choices more important than in early recovery...Putting yourselves in a financial bind is ill advised at anytime, but especially when your marriage is not at it's healthiest point...Pointing that out is not a slam, but rather, good advice...

A "one off windfall" should be saved for a rainy day (or used to get off of government assistance programs)...Living beneath your means is always the best plan no matter how much money you have...that is just wise...You say you've "budgeted" for your vacations, but would those really be in the "budget" if the government wasn't footing around $1800/year in baby formula for you?

In closing, I'm sorry that you are offended by having your own behavior pointed out to you...I've noticed that most often when something said here really bothers me, it's usually because there is TRUTH to it that I need to examine...Something for you to consider...

Mrs. W

P.S. I saw your post before you edited, asking how Mr. W and I afford our home...Simple answer: We do that on our own by working; that's how we get everything that we have.

P.P.S. Now that I've answered you Verve, I'll be happy to respect your request, however, if you post to me, I will post back if I feel it's warranted.

Actually if Verve's state is the same as mine the WIC program allows you to earn quite a bit per year (far more than regular government assistance) and still qualify. I used the WIC program for a little while when my kids were young until my H and I started earning a little more money on our jobs.

I don't know what WIC means.

I do know that there was a lot of welfare abuse during the 60's and 70's. Where people were geting color TV's and cars.

I do know that before welfare their was Home Relief during the Great Depression.

My mom telling me that Home R person would come to periodically inspect your home/apartment.

Where the Home R person would see curtains on the windows and say you can afford curtains you don't need Home Relief and want to take away your benefits.

So my mom and her sisters would run to take down the curtains before the Home R person would enter their apartment.

The Home R would want to make them go hungry for having curtains.

I think that all can see how my mom and I hate welfare.

There have been times when I have been out of work. As now, collecting unemployment. I have always been lucky enough never to need further assistance.

Unemployment does not pay me half of my take home pay.

Years ago unemployment was not taxed. It now is.

So a person on unemployment takes home even less money because it is taxed as income.

Why is the government taxing us more?

Because they are giving away to much money.

I have no job, no health insurance for my wife and I. I had to pay for health insurance for my son through my sons college so he could attend this year.

My wife does not have a high paying job. I don't blame anyone for me losing my job.

It saddens me though that my government is increasing my taxes to give more to others.

Especially when some of those that are recieving finacial aid are able to go on cruises.

When I don't go to the doctor.

My wife is putting of going to the dentist.

I think the point being made here (which is obviously being missed by some) is that income should be used for the necessities in life first and foremost. THEN, extravagances should come after all needs (rent, utilities, Food, etc). Once should not use the taxpayers' money for provide food unless it can not be afforded. (or formula or whatever). Individuals should take care of what is needed versus what is wanted and a cruise is certainly "an extra" that is not life threatening whereas food or formula would be.
Everyone deserves a vacation every once in a while but how could one budget for a vacation while accepting my tax money to provide for their children? Makes no sense to me.
Priority issue it sounds like.

Our country is in the mess that's in partially due to people taking advantage of the government programs which they COULD do without but refuse to do so simply because they can get it.

I don't know... little confusing to me.

Dawn,

It IS interesting that this topic appears on a thread about "cakeeating" because that's what it is. A couple recovering from infidelity should attempt to remove all forms "entitlement" from their marriage and life. Just as it's not illegal for Verve and her husband to take advantage of the "WIC" program it's also not illegal for her husband to commit adultery. I'm not, in any way, comparing the two, but Verve's husband has an obvious issue with boundaries and this behavior is in-line with such issue. It's just taking advantage of a government institution versus the institution of marriage.

Entitlement begets entitlement and, yes...as a taxpayor, I, too, am offendend.

Mr. Wondering

Well i guess i just don't see it the same way as you. My H and I have both always held a job and my tax dollars are used same as yours. I have never received EIC or any other assitance but as i stated before i used the WIC program for a little while when my children were young. The WIC program is available to anyone and only supplies formula, juice, cereal, eggs, cheese, and milk.

I also used a program that paid my baby sitter to feed my kids while they were at her house and my income was not even asked. To me it would be silly not to take advantage of programs that are out there.

Listen, this is a "no brainer". I understand the point that you are making "Still crazy"... however, the point being made here is that if you can afford a CRUISE, you should be able to afford food and formula for your children--without government assistance. Plain and simple.

I was a single mother for over 10 years with a very low income and I NEVER accepted any handout from anybody--including the government. I worked and took care of priorities--needs versus wants. I didn't get to take a vacation for over 10 years. Or not much else for that matter but, I did take care of my kid--me, myself and I.

Our country is in such dire straights right now partially because of people taking advantage of the system when they obviously don't have to. And, I resent the fact that my husband and I have to pay more in taxes that alot of people make in a year and there are people using "our" tax dollars for something that they don't really have to use it for and then going on a cruise instead of buying FOOD. That is completely illogical.

If you can't understand that then, there is no hope.

I did not mean to upset you. And i did not take a cruise when i was accepting assistance myself (or go on any vacations or do any extravagant spending or any of the above) and as soon as i felt that i could afford to buy the things on my own i quit accepting WIC as well.

My point is that the WIC program to me is different than most government assitance and is available to people with a fairly high income. If the program is there why not take advantage of it.

When you wewre a single mom i am sure that you received EIC with your federal income tax. To me WIC is not any different.

I certainly did not receive EIC (earned income credit) or any other type of assistance -- from anyone. They were not even doing the EIC then. I worked my butt off and spent every pennie I made on taking care essentials. Not taking cruises...
Do you hear what you are saying??? It's almost like saying "that married man over there is willing to have an affair with me so, even though I am married, he's willing to do it so, I might as well take advantage of it". Like Mrs. W pointed out--just a different type of boundary issue.
I have NO problem with someone who REALLY needs government assistance getting it but it really strikes a nerve when someone who really doesn't need it, takes it--just because they can.
We've really gotten a little "off" the subject of this thread anyway.

With EIC and all, about 40% of wage-earners in the US effectively pay no income tax at all.

Because there's no such thing as a free lunch.

B/c what you are really doing is taking advantage of your NEIGHBOR not a program.

It is your NEIGHBOR who funds the program.

Before a person reaches their hand into a government program they ought to humbly consider their neighbor.

Well me and my H are not now and never have been in this 40%, we have paid taxes every year since we have been together. We both worked even though it did not pay me to work when we had our son as after all was said and done i only had about $50.00 to put toward the household expenses but i worked anyway.

And we have never received EIC for our children.

We certainly have struggled our whole married life for everything that we have as well and these are "my" tax dollars we are talking about here too.

Also i am certainly happy for all of you have to "pay more in taxes" than most people make in a year as this must mean you are doing well.