That article on different types of apologies has been on my mind, I wish I could remember where I saw it. It made a lot of sense to me, sort of an "Aha" moment, why sometimes one person thinks they've apologized sufficiently yet the other person isn't satisfied.

Like if the apologizer is showing extreme remorse cus that's what makes an apology seem real to them, but the recipient sees it as self-pity or something cus they're looking for action to make amends.

It was a great article.

I can't recall what lildoggie wrote about apologies but I'll go check. I usually follow what that ol' gramma writes. *poke*

Dont you granma me.

I dont think I posted anything about apologies, last thing I posted on the EN board was about showing apprieciation

It sounds like the stuff on the website of the guy who wrote Five Love Languages. Um, the Five Languages of Apology. Is that it?

This:

http://www.fivelovelanguages.com/learn_apology.html

THAT'S IT!!!!!

Thanks! Yes that article really makes sense to me. I can now understand why some folks are not satisfied with an apology that another person thinks is enough.

Ears: I just read what you wrote on SW's thread. I wonder... and I'm afraid of saying this in a way that's too harsh for you, I hope this is ok... but I wonder if the reason you thought I was being triggered is actually because you are being triggered?

Because I really don't think I was being triggered. I just saw what I thought as her not taking responsibility for her part, and wanting to blame everything on him... and yet there were glimpses that seemed hopeful... so I thought that with some pushing she'd achieve a breakthrough. I think I wasn't the only one thinking that. And I think she is close, if not already there.

I don't see the abuse you see. I don't see her as a "fearful" walking on eggshells wife. I see her as being able to stand up to him whether with her own AOs, or with other SDs, DJs, and manipulative things like public ambushes. Granted, those are not desirable, but they don't look to me like a wife walking on eggshells who needs to seek IRL support for abused women.

I hope you aren't hurt by this... I thought of sending you this in email, but I want to give others a chance to disagree with me in case I'm way off base. I think sometimes you've seen abuse in my sitch also, when IMHO it was mutual, if not instigated by me originally... that doesn't make it right, but it changes the approach to a solution...

E.g. in my case: I think my H would not normally be the type of person to have AOs. I know it isn't PC to say this, but I think that a person CAN be driven to be abusive. That doesn't release them of responsibility, but it changes how you solve the problem.

There's been studies and case histories - the prisoner/guard experiment for example... and what happened in Germany with the Nazis... almost anyone in certain sitches and under enough ... duress? ... can act in an abusive manner.

Anyway, for example, if my AOs and persistant nagging and scootching and incessant drip-drip-drip snide remarks, DJs, eventually drive my H to an AO... does it help me by sympathizing with me and telling me I'm being abused and I should seek help from resources available to abused women?

Now you *know* I've encouraged women to seek help in abusive sitches. I just don't think that every sitch involving AOs is a case of an abused wife. If it is mutual abuse, then IMHO the person here needs to change their own behavior, not cry "abuse" pointing the finger at the other person.

Are you doing ok? Is reading about AOs triggering something for you that you'd like to discuss? How are things going with you? *hugs*

Okay, jayne, how it relates to me personally, is that I'm still watching my mom go through this, and I want more for her, but she's not reaching out for help. She shuts me down when I try to talk to her. It's not time yet, or maybe that's not the answer for her life at all.

SW and her H sound so stuck in all-or-nothing, and here she is, reaching out. I think that she can do this. But it takes a lot of support to make changes when someone is hollering at you all weekend. When my H couldn't stand me, whether he was hollering or silent, it got me so down, and I felt so hopeless. I had good days and bad days. I used to wonder, how bad do I want this? I do want this, really badly, but I'm tired, and I'm weary, and burnt out. And I don't even think this the man I want to be with. Maybe tomorrow will be better. I can still pick up where I left off tomorrow.

I got the wake-up call that I was looking for when I talked to Steve. That I can do this, that I can believe in myself, and my H. That we will or we won't, but you know what, folks do this every day, and we can, too. I heard a slogan that has come to mean a lot to me, Yes We Can.

Jayne, thanks for your help this week. I was looking up something I wanted to post for cat, but I didn't find it. But I ran into this, and thought it might help:

http://al.turtlecounseling.com/blog/_archives/2005/11/21/1417110.html

thanks ears!

I also wanted to read the article you mentioned on the other thread, could you remind me of the link? -found it, nevermind, thx


ds6a got a stomach bug, got sick at school and i fear i'm getting it so i'm brief.



oops ds7a now

hows the bug?

Aw thanks for asking! I was just telling H it musta been something we ate, maybe at the Mex restaurant, cus we're all better today.

So H says no, there's something going around, cus his mum also was saying she was sick...

She's up in CANADA... um, yeah, she's the only other person you know who said they were sick, and so there's something going around, it just hit us and her, and no one in between. LOL

So how you doin? Dontcha wanna come see us too? We're closer to Seattle than Tx!!

I WANNA SEE YOU

You are my oldest MB buddy. I didnt have alot of say in our flights, so we are flying in to LAX, then over to Salt Lake City for a couple of hours, then Seattle from 6th-9th. Fly out early morning 9th back to salt lake city, then LAX, and stay with T2L till 11th when we fly back to NZ

Where can we meet

Awwww.... where we used to live was real near SLC!!!!!!! That's always the airport we would use!!!! That airport feels like home. And yet it isn't here!

I heard that Southwestern is having an insane flight sale, all tix between 50 and 99 dollars one way? I'll have to check.

H loves Vancouver, I wonder if he'd like a Seattle/Vancouver holiday?

DD12 asked today if we would move to Oz, we said no cos mum lives there. She asked what country we would live in and we decided Canada was probably at the top of our list.

If we get fed up with NZ and decide to move, you'll have to come see

Course...dreams are free

I can say it will be the only time we are coming to USA for some time, so unless your coming to NZ anytime soon..... :crosseyedcrazy:

Welllll.... As you know we were there last May... and MIL and FIL travel a lot (spending their grandkids' inheritance!!!) and are going to NZ sometime soon (next month?)

Where we live now, there's a semi-forced vacation the beginning of August, everyone leaves town. H wants to go back to NZ.

But I still think we should try to see you this trip.

Canada's big, eh? If you moved there, would you be heading for west coast, prairies, maritimes, territories, or francophones? Wherever you go, you better tape up your hockey sticks and shine your curling stones.

You might come in august.

Oh so cool. OMG! I just realised. I wont be commoted to a farm then...I can leave the place i am residing at and go to other parts of the country...in august!


Eh what? We were just thinking of the bits that look like NZ

Been a few years since I played hockey, and curling is more of a south island sport than a north island, but I do understand the game.

Generally tho, I prefer petanque, bit hard on the ice.

Y'all know CURLING??? :MrEEk:

So I'm hiding in the bedroom, can't take any more commotion! I've been trying to work with the kids all day on educational activities, while doing laundry and doing a bit of my work. H has been sitting at the kitchen table in the same room all day (well ever since church) on the computer but hardly interacting at all unless I ask one of DSs to show him what they've written or something.

He's off the computer now, heating up leftovers for them. I've relinquished all meal preparation cus I had to let go of something and it's the only thing that I know will get done even if I don't do it.

That, and the kitchen doesn't feel like mine since I didn't have much say in where things went.

Too bad I actually LIKE to cook and was excited about this house partly due to the awesome kitchen.

<whine mode> if you hadn't noticed.

I've been grumpy all weekend. Tuesday morning H leaves for a trip and returns Saturday, then leaves again the following Monday for another week. So the next two Tuesdays he's outa town, and I teach from 4-6 and 6-8 and the kids' after-school care ends at 6. And their cub scouts are the 2nd Tuesday. They're supposed to learn how to build the model race car kits they got last time, that they're so excited about. I think they'll have to miss it, cus I don't see how I can ask another parent to take my kids as well... especially since we had to get special permission since they're twins to break the one-parent-per-kid rule.

So we had SF yesterday morning and H was all happy and in a good mood, but I'm just in a pissy mood. I don't know how I'm gonna handle everything for most of two weeks all by myself. And if I do, then what do I need him for anyway?

And... ears, I gotta eat my words. I spoke too soon. On the computer usage and browser history. I managed to take a peak yesterday morning before he'd gotten a chance to clear the history.

Prolly not a big deal but it didn't warm the cockles of my heart toward him either. I didn't follow the link cus the kids were right there.

I'm getting less and less happy with the kids' new school, and I try to share my worries with H and he just says things like "I'm sure they're fine."

I'm looking into signing up for some on-line programs that home-schoolers use, for me to use with the kids after school. What do all y'all good mothers think of that? Cus the kids are doing things now that are easier than what they were doing last year, and they are saying they don't know how to do things they knew last year. Like subtraction - DS6a could do subtraction two years ago, and they have them watching cartoons of numbers dancing to teach them to count to 100. DS6a's homework was to fill in the blank on a sheet of paper that counted to 100 and only had 4 empty spots for him to fill in. Last year they had to write to 100 on a blank sheet of paper all by themselves! And this is now the middle of the following year! And did I say they were doing subtraction two years ago at home? Today 6a told me he didn't know how to do "worksheets with minuses".

So, any suggestions on online programs, or should I buy workbooks or something? I've been printing out math worksheets occasionally, and we signed up for the Click-n-read phonics program. When we buy workbooks, sometimes they end u in a box of toys never used, and the last one we bought, 6b ended up doing both his and his brother's book. Oh well.

We went to the library yesterday and got new library cards and checked out about 30 books, some for me to read and some for them to read themselves.

I resent being the only one concerned and the only one doing something about this. Ok, whine mode off </whine> so how do you not fall into resentment in such a case? I'm not willing to stop doing educational stuff for the kids. But when I'm the only one doing it, I feel resentment. But that means I'm wanting him to do something that he obviously chooses not to do - which means I'm SDing.

Oh, also, there was a "business" card left on our front door the other day, from the shreiff's office saying to call a number. After several days' of trying, I called the main office, long story short, they were trying to serve civil papers on the guy we bought the house from! You know, the guy who let his puppy ruin the carpet right before turning the house over to us?

Did I tell y'all about the first night my mom was here over Christmas, everyone was in bed but I was still awake on the computer, and I heard the doorbell - I nudged H and said someone's at the door! He grunted. I looked, and someone was shining a flashlight in through the window! I was terrified, and tried to get H to go to the door but he just grunted. I had to go by myself. (I found out later mom was just at the bottom of the stairs ready in case something happened!) It was a cop, looking for ... guess who??? The guy we bought the house from! He showed me his badge, and it was just about the coldest night ever so I asked him to step inside - his partner who was in the shadows back up against the garage stepped out and scared the cr@p outa me!

And now with this "call me" card from the sheriff, H just threw the card down on the counter and said "You're supposed to call the sheriff." ME??? Why ME??? Why does he not feel any responsibility toward it? It didn't have my name on it, it was jsut left in the door, and he got it. So anyway, I was a bit concerned until I finally reached someone after several days.

I don't like being involved in all this "drama" just cus we bought a house from a slimeball. We didn't know he was a slimeball, we made a lot of concessions assuming he was an ok guy - but one concession after another and they start adding up.

And if H is just gonna grunt when a man is outside shining a flashlight in the window at midnight... then I want something/someone who just lives for jumping up and following me around even in the middle of the house night and who would look and sound in such a way that any bad guys would at least think twice! I hear some people keep cougars as pets, a cougar's a cat...

Interesting... "pissy" wasn't censored but the first word in "cockles of my heart" was.

You know,
"Mary, Mary, quite contrary,
How does your garden grow?
With silver bells, and cockle shells,
And pretty maids all in a row."

...

And what, pray tell, is petanque?

curling in NZ

Pétanque (pronounced [pe.t&#593;&#771;k] in French) is a form of boules where the goal is to throw metal balls as close as possible to a small wooden ball called a cochonnet (jack). The game is normally played on hard dirt or gravel, but can also be played on grass or other surfaces. Sandy beaches are not suitable. Similar games are bocce and bowls.

Just out of curiosity, I notice your references to SF, and I would like to know if the frequency now is the same or different from when you first got together. I am working on the principle that when you first meet, you fall in love because of EN's being met. I guess the thing that didint warm the 'kockells' was adult in nature.