This seems passive-aggressive..to me..

THIS IS NOT HARD...

I don't see why he needs so much HELP on the DETAILS...

He MAY need HELP on buying into the NEED for this...

Seems to me that he continues to HATE boundaries and is not being HONEST with you about that...

I'm glad to hear the poly is a must. I still find it VERY hard to believe that a person can have a LTEA with a person that works with him. It would be one thing if the APs lived across the ocean from one another but to work in the building and be in close proximity... Sorry Chyrs, I just don't buy it but I'd be more than happy to eat my words later if necessary.

{{{chrys}}} Sorry if my words hurt. Prayers to you.

I'm glad he's agreed to the polygraph.

I, too, find it impossible to believe a LT EA didn't turn into a PA when he had ready physical access to OW. Make sure your poly questions do not leave any room for clintonesque answers.

I've told him in no uncertain terms that I don't believe that story, either. I suspect it's a lot closer to "everything but" than the "hardly anything" he portrays.

Mimi, what seems passive-aggressive? My request that he work with other people to get those details right?

Doctors are accountable to ::nobody:: I do not want my own emotions to cause me to let him off the hook on something that he ought to be doing. He is missing the concept and I am tired of trying to teach him anything. He isn't going to learn it from me, he is going to have to work with somebody else to expose his blind spots.

Crysalis,

do you want me to ask Flick to post his EP's to Chewie? I know Tst is great at EP's and has some as well. I am just wondering if seeing other WH's EP's might help with ideas for Chewies personal ones.

Lil, that would be great! Flick should reference that we met in NZ.....Chewie still doesn't know who's who here.....

No, I'm saying CHEWIE is being passive-aggressive. Not, YOU.
Does he understand the NEED for the EPs is what I'm saying. Maybe I'm missing something. How can the SPECIFICS be that HARD?

I guess you don't know my story but my H and I have been recovered since 2003. Once my H BOUGHT and GOT the NEED for EPs and WANTED to DO IT...it was EASY for HIM...He took this on HIMSELF..still does...has all kinds of driving routes around town..certain places that he shops, certain post offices that he frequents...ALL ON HIS OWN..without my assistance in working out any DETAILS..my opinion on this has been based on my own experience...NEVER answers UNKNOWN CALLS..I check ALL of his EMAILS...and on and on...he's made this a part of his life...INGRAINED since RECOVERY because he HATED his AFFAIR so much..what it did to HIM..what it did to ME..what it did to US...

So it's NOT the specifics that he needs..he needs to buy into the FACT that HE IS ADDICTED TO THE OTHER WOMAN..and has to DESPERATELY and WHOLEHEARTEDLY avoid any contact with the drug...

He has to ACKNOWLEDGE HIS ADDICTION...

I read Flick's list and understand NOW...

I GUESS such a list is recommended by the Harleys...

Sorry if I misunderstood...

I guess it would be unattractive TO ME..I think..would bother ME..if my H seemed to need to do something that DETAILED...like he was STUPID or something....MY ISSUE...I guess...

My H does all that stuff..without a list...

RESPECT is such an issue for MY HUSBAND..not wanting me to treat him like he is STUPID..that's ingrained in ME..NOW...

Mimi, could you post that you get it now to Chewie? He needs to see people reflecting and thinking on what others have posted.

Lil, pls thank Flick for me.

Crysalis, have past message on.

Mimi, Flick is not unintelligent. The man runs circles around me. However he is not good at expressing or verbalising his inner thoughts to me.

The EP's are not just a written confirmation of what he is willing to do to make me feel safe, they are also a tangable thing I can hold onto on the days when I don't feel strong. I am in early recovery, and that reassurange is precious to me. Respect is a big thing for Flick as well, but he understands that right now, its what I need. We can sort out the other stuff later. Besides, it is the only area in which I am not as admiring or easy as I am in all other things.

Chewie is still reading. There has not been a lot of time for him to reply.

This morning he sent a written request to eliminate his private office line and a request to his IT dept. to figure out how to block email addresses. He is not opening up email except at home with me present. I have a way to verify that. He has agreed to be home by 7 pm.

It appears as if OW may have rejected his email unopened. It suddenly disappeared from his "Sent" folder in Outlook at a time when he did not have email access. It has not been "double deleted." If anyone is techie enough to understand how that may have happened, could you share it with me?

I yelled at him well into the night. This has been such a huge setback. We had been doing so well. We were happy together. Now I am unsafe again. When I start to feel anything it quickly turns to rage.

I keep telling him he has to figure out how to fix himself. Probably not the best thing to say.

One of the issues I have is that he used to be a man of strong religious faith. He has rejected that. I want it back in his life. I am not sure how to put that into my list of expected EPs. He needs to get past his intelligence (I understand how and why this is a barrier to him) and drink the Koolaid, both on MB and with respect to matters of faith.

That last sentence was probably contradictory!

Could he have given OW access to his email account for some reason before this all came down? Is it possible she hacked into his account? Could he have left his email open once when he was with her and she snooped then?

As far as I know the only time something would disappear in "Outlook" is when items are archived automatically after a certain amount of time.

This is an email system with multiple layers of security and frequently changing multiple passwords. Very, very hard to hack.

He might have a rule set up to automatically move some sent mail to a folder..............

Understandable.

He was beginning to restore a layer of trust with you. This thoughtless act has stripped that layer away and has left you with no clear guidance as to how or if it can be restored.


Again, understandable.

What he's delivered thus far in your recovery is no longer going to be acceptable. It's no longer enough, nor should it be. The list I posted to him might be a good start though, but it needs to be HIS actions that lead from here.


I'm guessing he was active in his faith before his A's??? But hasn't been since???

This is as simple as asking him to go to church with you again.

It was a requirement of SMB's before she would even consider reconciliation with me again. This is a change of heart issue, and a very important one at that.

Nope. I can pretty much verify everything that is or isn't there.

Yes, he was active in his faith before his As, and hasn't been since.

A couple of months ago I did indeed ask him to do that, and before we went away we had been visiting some churches. That got derailed when he had to do some hospital work the weekend before we left, then we were away, and he had to work this weekend again. Yes, all verified. They take turns and it was definitely his turn and he calls me from a hospital number to prove his whereabouts and he gets calls from the answering service when he is at home on those days.

I am thinking about telling him something like "You need to fix what went wrong spiritually." But I have to figure out how to word it.

"GET ON THOSE KNEES AND PRAY BUDDY"....

"GET YOUR BUM RIGHT WITH GOD".....

"STOP STANDING TOO CLOSE TO ME, I DON'T WANT TO GET HIT BY THE LIGHTING".....

I'm just kidding Chrys,,,,,,,(I am a big advocate for humor, even if it is sometimes misplaced.... )

I am watching this very carefully, as I am experiencing sorta the same thing at the moment....

I have to agree with Mimi, you are handling this WONDERFULLY.....better than I am at the moment...(I had no problem going into "rage" mode...but then controlling LB'S has been an issue with me during this whole stuff....)

Anyway, you are receiving wonderful support and advice.....Keep your chin up and chest out......you DESERVE better.....

not2fun

Chrysalis,

Sounds to me like you miss very much spiritual intimacy with your H. Of the twelve intimacies we share with our partners, that one to me is the most intimate, takes the greatest courage and results in the deepest intimacy.

I would grieve it terribly if we'd had it and then it was gone. True loss.

And like love, not unrecoverable.

I think you want to share these thoughts, mourning this loss, with your FWH. Your half is still yours...act from it. You cannot lose your choice to share.

LA

LOL, thanks, not2. I read your thread and am so sorry for your recent stuff.

There really isn't a way to word that that isn't a DJ.... tst may be right that it is handled by asking him to take concrete actions.