My husband had a drug problem for which he sought help and is now better but when he was using he cheated a lot with two different women and both of them became pregnant while I was pregnent with our first child (we have two children now) so now he has two other kids one with each woman, and to make matters worse they live a lifestyle very inconsistant with mine, my now sober husband, and my children (drugs, violence and such). He also ran into some legal trouble when he was using for which he is now doing 120 days in prison he has 90 days left and is saying when he gets home we are going to work on us and get this figured out. We are trying desperately to save our marriage, but I have a hard time trying to cope with the issue, I have tried to talk to him about what he wants to do and stress that we need to do it together but he would go behind my back to see the kids and the women he says he feels like they need him(the OC) because the OW are terrible mothers--they are.(and even though he says he is not sleeping with them any more) I feel betrayed and now he says he is not going to see those kids anymore unless the mothers agree that they can come to our house (which I am not sure how to handle) and they wont agree cause they want my H too. I am afraid he is going to resent me for not seeing his kids. I dont know if I can handle this the OW are very Spiteful, they both want my H, and there is no way they are going to agree to have their kids around me and at my house, because of this he is not going to be able to be in their lives, I am afraid he will resent me for it? I worry about what my kids will learn fron this situation? how do I explain to my two year old that, those other two year olds calling her dad "daddy" are not mine but his? What kind of example is this for them? My H says that he is going to have NC with the OW, and that if they want the OC to see him that they will have to come to our house and be with me which I agreed was the best way to go about things but he has said that once before but after a while he went behind my back to see them at OW's house...I am sick with worry about this! I am worried my marriage is doomed no matter what is it? Also I have trouble trusting him and I get these flashes of him with OW intimately when ever he touches me, He said part of the reason for the A was I dont seem that into him sexually but how could I be when he has done all this, how can I get over this? I miss him but at the same time I am glad I know exactly where he is at, is that bad? Will I ever look at him the same? will my kids be happy? Can I ever be happy?

Let's just make a list:

1. drug problem
2. cheated while you were pregnant
3. did not use protection while you were pregnant = two OC
4. legal trouble
5. prison
6. goes behind your back to see OW and OC
7. no trust
8. he blames you for his cheating

... and of course there is this....


and this ....




How is he supporting a wife and 4 children under age 3 while in prison?



If you decide to stay with him - please don't have any more children - get your tubes tied if he won't have a vasectomy.

WOW...okay that was not the least bit helpful...I have a real problemm with people telling others who should and shouldnt procreate I guess you think there should be a qualifying income for having children. And what were you sugessting was the problem with my childrens ages? And my Age? His age? I suspect you have a perfect marriage then huh? Apparently your "Nest was broken" did someone make a list like that for you? or maybe it was about you? Money is not our problem, okay...If anyone has anything remotely helpful to say I would like to hear from you...

I have children about your age.

Take a look at the list of your WH's contributions to your life so far.

If I were your mum, I'd do everything possible to get you to see your marriage for what it is. A risky environment for your two children, and you.

What do your parents think about their son in law, and all the misery he's inflicted upon their daughter and their grandchildren?

How does he support his 4 children? It's a real question.

I think that you are both very young.
I think you have a lot on your plate (2 very young children) for such a young woman.
I think your husband is irresponsible.
I don't think you can count on WH to become an upstanding man you can depend on - not any time soon.
I don't think adding another child to the mix is a very good idea BECAUSE you are not married to a man you can trust.

I do understand that you think you might want to wait and see if he's changed.
OK - but please - wait to have another baby - another 10 years of your husband being Mr Responsible, Mr Honest, Mr Trustworthy - THEN go have a bunch of kids, that would be wonderful.

It breaks my heart that your two children have a home where Daddy is in prison and Daddy cheated on their Mum while she was pregnant - making siblings they cannot grow up with.

It's a huge risk - and you are not just assuming the risk for yourself, but you are assuming the risk for your kids.

TV

Peps questions are for you. They are for YOU to consider and think about .... in the end YOU will make your decisions and your decisions WILL effect your children perhaps for the rest of their lives.

Your H has a HUGE hill to climb in both addiction and behaviour.

HOW will your H support 4 kids? Its a valid question YOU need to consider .... can he do it ligit? will he start dealing? drugs are insidious and will creep into your whole life of you and your girls ... if he goes back to it in any way.

So if he doesn't ..... now consider how he can support your family ... think about the good and bad.

Your age is important only for the point that you could start over if you had too & that you have such a heap of trouble on your plate for one so young...

think about options IF you decide to try and recover your M ...

OC - does your H seek custody ... could you be a step mum for these kids ???

If not & shared custody how do you manage contact

there are so many things for you to consider .... and yes they could all be resolved .... but most importantly .... you are now a MUM .... you darlings come first over a man with so many issues.

see we could all give you e hugs and say it will turn out ok but thats not helping you ..... we are not being mean ... we want to help you look at ALL angles here ... good and bad ... YOU and your kids deserve a better life than to be the part time wife and family of someone with huge problems like your H has.

He may be able to reform... of course he may ... we are saying THINK about all of this very carefully.... ask questions... seek information .... read the advice ..... dont take offence .... think and read them over again .... you have a hard road to travel right now but you can get through it.

Okay- let's see if I can be helpful. First of all, your age has something to do with it because at 23 you don't have a lot of life experience to draw from when you are looking at this situation.

You are also very defensive. That's okay. I was when I was 23, and my DD is also very defensive when I point things out from my life experience after she has asked me advice-and she is 23. (Wonder where she gets it :RollieEyes:) Try to remember again that those of us who have lived just a bit longer on this earth may see things in the details that you don't-because we've either BTDT or have friends who we have loved dearly and tried to help who have BTDT.

That said-let's consider the facts: Your H has had a substance abuse problem. He may very well be sober. But the consequences of his actions have caught up to him. He is in prison for them.

He had two children with other women while you were pregnant.

Your H has had 4 children in the past 2+ years (counting gestation time). That's fairly irresponsible. That's where his age has something to do with all this even if he was using at the time.

Let's look at now.

He continued to lie to you and betray you by going to see these OC and OW without considering you and your children.


He is acting very young and immature. He is disregarding the fact that you want to do this with him. He wants what he wants on his own terms.

The reason that Pep advised you to not have more children with him is because of this:



Do you really want to have more kids with him if this is going to be their future?

If you were my daughter this is what I would say to you. I would advise you to get some counseling and go to Al-Anon. Even if he isn't using right now, it will help you understand some of his behavior and what goes on in an addicts thinking. It's possible to be sober and just be in a "dry drunk" for a long time. That means he still has the same behaviors and attitudes, he just isn't using.

I would also tell you to determine some boundaries. This is where going to counseling might help also. It can give you an objective person to help you sort things out.

What are your "deal breakers"? What must he absolutely show you by his actions that will help HIM earn YOUR trust back.

No matter what, this will be a tough road. If you really do want to stay with him, I would tell you to read "Boundaries in Marriage" by Townsend and Cloud and also "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley to start.

I hope this is helpful.

TV

"I have a real problemm with people telling others who should and shouldnt procreate I guess you think there should be a qualifying income for having children"

I have a problem with many things.

Such as a woman that thinks a druggy is good dad material.

Such as a woman that thinks having the morals that makes having an affair good dad material.

Such as a woman that doing some thing that results in going to jail is good dad material.

Such as a woman that keeps having children with a man that has unprotected sex and gets two other women pregnant is good dad material.

Such as a woman that keeps on having children with a dad that can not support his children.

Such as with people that can't be told that it is not in their, their childrens best interests for her not to procreate.

Such as a woman that can be smart enough to use procreate instead of pregnant, or knocked up, can't see the poor choice's that she is making.

I posted this on your thread on the pg/c board as well.

Welcome to MB. I am so sorry for the circmumstances that bring you here. It seems to me that you are putting the cart before the horse here. How long has your WH been sober? Do you have proof he is no longer in these affairs? What does your gut tell you? Has he agreed to follow a 12 step program for life? How about you? Have you been to a 12 step program like alanon for families of addicts?

Ok, now on to the topic of the OC. If they are two and he has been seeing them behind your back, how did you find out? Did he confess or did you find evidence through snooping?

I would lay some pretty serious boundaries on a few issues with him or the M is over. Harsh? No, it protects you and your COM. He is an addict and they are even better at lying at cheating than the average wayward.

First, if he really wants contact with these children then you have to be ok with it too. Discuss with him what this would look like. Second, if you agree to contact then he needs to get this done legally. Was DNA done on these two children? If not, DNA needs to be part of it. Is he paying child support? Once DNA is established then child support and visitation need to go through the courts. If the mothers are so imcompetent, you may be looking down the road at getting custody. How do you feel about that possibility? There are ways to use a 3rd party to avoid contact with the OW and drop offs/pick ups can be done in public places.

Most importantly as far as boundaries go need to be the 12 step program and random drug testing. Any using and he is gone.

This is all just MHO. Good luck. I have one of those H's that gave into the OW demands to not have the OC around me. 4 years later and he still sees the child on rare occasion behind my back. It is not a fun way to go.
_________________________

BTW, TV, you are fortunate to have someone like pepperband posting to you. It would benefit you to open your mind and really listen to what she is saying to you.

Are there DNA tests on the other two children?

Just a prequalifier to the "welcome to the 18 year club for men".

TV- What are your other support models (mom, sisters, good friends and other family...?) What do they say?

You are so young, and I hope smart. READ this site, about the women who spend YEARS being doormats and economic slaves to men who do not respect them ... and then get kicked to the curb for another woman after 20 years of devotion.

I mean, READ your own post...does this M and does your H deserve this type of dedication?

I wish you well. I would like to hear your replies.

Oh, well...he((- you are at MB's!
NO one is afraid to call it as they see it here.
:MrEEk:

That is the beauty, no one here is vested, emotionally on either side.

They can only take the informaion you put out there, and give it an honest once over. That is worth it's wieght in gold.

First of all he is sober. He is paying CS for OC and we do fine financially I am a stay at home mom and I never said I wanted to have more kids I may some day I just dont like being told I should not. I am not "defensive" I did not expect "ehugs" and "it's going to be okay" I just did not expect sarcasism and list making as if a decision involving such a heartwrenching situation should be shugged off by such nonchalant answers. The reason I even posted was becasue I thought I could get feedback from people who had been through similar situations and had empathetic suggestions. I really did not need snide remarks and goffs at the facts that are my nightmarish reality. I am HEARTBROKEN...I dont have any parents and I dont want my kids to be without their Dad and he was not always this way we have been together since I was 16 and we both have graduated from college and he makes good money working for a state lobbyist he was a great husband, father, and christian, Until he started doing drugs to deal with stress then the other behavior and OW resulted as a way to facilitate his habit. I kicked him out becasue he was drinking, so when he was out he got worse and did things when he was hanging out with other users....He is not just some Irresponsible horrible drug addicted wayward, he is my husband, my childrens father and some I love dearly try to imagine my point of view...imagine his...He can not take back what he did no matter how much he wishes he could...its a horrible situation he created and no matter what me and my children are suck in it, and having an absent parent has a profound affect on child as well, I know

He also ran into some legal trouble when he was using for which he is now doing 120 days in prison he has 90 days left and is saying when he gets home we are going to work on us and get this figured out.

He is paying CS for OC and we do fine financially I am a stay at home mom

he makes good money working for a state lobbyist he was a great husband, father, and christian,

How can he work while he is in prison? If you are staying at home, who is making the money to support the four kids?

If I were you, I would sit him down when he comes home and show him a written plan for how your marriage will go, moving forward. Just like a wayward spouse has to agree to complete transparency so you feel safe knowing he's not out with another woman, you need certain steps from him to reassure you that he is on the straight and narrow. Including:

• periodic drug testing
• access to his cell, texting, email, and computer
  
• checks in with you whenever he is not with you
  
• regular honest discussions about life, marriage, family so you both stay on track
  

If he can't accommodate these simple, humble things, then you need to question what's going on.

Well, there is certainly good news here!

Because money is not an issue, you can afford to begin your marriage coaching while your WH is still in prison!

*link* to MB coaching center

This is strictly telephone counseling. Perfect for your needs.
Call today and start the process.

TV

No one here is being snide or sarcastic. It just may feel that way--everyone here is truly giving a non-partisan, objective look at the facts as you've presented them.

Please try to view the responses with an open mind. And, lists can be used as being very eye opening...

I understand that you want to work things out with your H, but what everyone is trying to say is do you really think that he can/will change from this unreliable way of living?

You need to search yourself using your mind, not your heart in looking at the pro's and con's (no pun intended) of your husbands behavior and try to determine if he will ever change. Otherwise, you are setting yourself up for years and years of heartache and emotional problems for yourself and your children...

Here's another question to ask yourself:

Why do you think you deserve to put up with this behavior on his part?

Why do you not think you can do better than a man who does drugs, cheats, and is in jail?

You are 23 and have a lot of life ahead of you.

For you to save your marriage, he has to change.

My experience is that it will take years and years for him to change, if he ever does at all.

What do I forsee if you stay with him?

More pain, more OCs, constant arguing and friction with OW because of those children, relapse into drugs, probably more jail time, probably cheat on you again.

Could he come out of jail reformed?

Sure.

But it's my opinion that you and your children deserve better than this and that a man like this is so broken and requires so much work that you will pay a hefty price trying to change him and the odds are he'll never change.

So don't get defensive about the feedback you get here. It's coming from people who've been around the block a bit. Some marriages are salvageable. Others aren't.

The advice we provide you is for you to chew on.

The questions to ask yourself are for you to reflect on.

And you may choose to continue having more babies with this man, but being told that you may not want to do so is not an attack. It's prudent advice given his past behavior.

Want more kids? Then do it with a different man. That could be your husband, but he would mean he's a changed and reformed man.

Call me skeptical, but men like him rarely change.

And women like you should realize you deserve much better than what you have. You do deserve, and you should demand, better than what he's giving.

And at 23 you're very, very young.