Krazy,

We've already discussed that. My shift is set in stone. I can't change it, and I can't change jobs. That's not an option.

Her job duties have changed. Her old position was eliminated starting Monday, and she's been shifted to another spot that will have her working shifts all over the place. But she won't be first shift all the time, and that's good enough.

I'm paranoid about what she's doing, and she has promised (yeah, yeah, I know) to PROVE that everything is good again. This means checking in on the phone, verifying everything.

I don't know how we'll work it, but we have the weekend off together (perfect timing) and we're going to talk things out.

She knows her promises are worthless, and she says she's willing to do whatever it takes to prove NC and the rest of it.

I'm trying to stay calm. I WILL stay alert.

You know, a thought just struck me as I walked back to my desk.

She knows one more mistake and I walk. It's over, I'm done.

Now it's her turn to Plan A ME. I think I can live with that scenario.

We'll find out if there is justice in this world.

There isn't.

You will find that out once you realize your wife is gaming you.

Polygraph her.

Yup. I agree with IAM.

The addiction practically guarantees she will slip up again. This is not a sprint it's a marathon on a rollercoaster not a slippery dip.

AOTC - too bad if you don't like my tone. I guarantee - even PROMISE you I will piss you off again. And your reaction to what I say is YOURS. It won't take one second off my life if you ignore me. YOU are the one that needs help here. YOU are NOT entitled to have anyone post to you - everyone posting is doing it out of their desire to help you. Shooting at the hellicopters will not behoove you I promise.

bigkahuna:

Your posts make sense, you have good things to say. And the post previous to this one was fine. I'm just asking for advice, not snark. Don't sugarcoat things -- just skip the snark, that's all I ask, okay?

Now, here's a question I'd like you to answer, along with all the other vets...

How can you tell when the fog has lifted, and the WS gets it? What are the signs, or if you're into poker, the tells that indicate that recovery is underway. I know there are probably a number of different ways....so everybody, please chime in.

Thanks for the help.

You can tell the fog has lifted when she is no longer foggy. You can tell she gets it...when her actions line up with her WORDS. ACTIONS, ACTIONS, ACTIONS, are all that count. Recovery is underway when the fog lifts after her withdrawal and when she begins a PLAN OF RECOVERY. The fog will lift and withdrawal will take place after several WEEKS of no contact. [no contact demonstrated by ACTIONS, not words]

A plan of recovery would include strong boundaries along with complete transparency to ensure that the conditions that made the affair possible no longer exist.

Nope. Not likely. Maybe you are too sensitive to be on a message board?


Total transparency in all she does - all passwords, etc. Being available 24/7 if you phone her. Accountability for her time.

Openness and honesty regarding all aspects of her affair.

No contact or attempted contact with OM for a minimum of 8 weeks.

A willingness and active participation in repairing the damage she caused to your marriage.

Her not blaming OM for her affair and not blaming you either in ANY WAY.

Attitude of whatever it takes for as long as it takes.

bigkahuna:

Total transparency in all she does - all passwords, etc. Being available 24/7 if you phone her. Accountability for her time.

Openness and honesty regarding all aspects of her affair.

No contact or attempted contact with OM for a minimum of 8 weeks.

A willingness and active participation in repairing the damage she caused to your marriage.

Her not blaming OM for her affair and not blaming you either in ANY WAY.

Attitude of whatever it takes for as long as it takes.

That's a checklist I will post on my mental refrigerator. That's pretty damned comprehensive. She was talking a good game this afternoon. If she keeps it up for two months with no letup and slips, okay.... Until then she's on double-secret probation.

Works.

Thanks a lot!

AHOC, a good sign of her sincerity will be her willingness to send the OM a no contact letter. Check this out:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html


Dr. Harley: My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

AOTC - she will slip up - I guarantee it.

Fog rolls in and out. It took 6 months before I was sure my wife really "got it" and she was a model FWW with no slips in any way.

Recovery SUCKS. It's HARD.

Just with the length of your wife's affair you can expect fog for some months - maybe even a year.

Ahead of curve: Give us an update, please...

It’s been a busy week at work, and I haven’t really had time to post.

We had one more long talk on Saturday, and while F?WW seemed to be worried about dropping another bomb on me, everything was pretty much a dud. Nothing really new, just a rehash of stuff I already found out about or was less dramatic than F?WW’d thought. Certainly nothing that disturbed me more than I already had been.

The A is dead, dead, dead. There are two factors that buttress my confidence in that fact. First, F?WW told me of two text messages F?WW sent to her go-between friend, one asking if the “friend” had heard from OM, and the second saying F?WW didn’t expect to hear from him ever again because “he’s married and the jerk got busted.” F?WW told me she’d love to contact him one more time to essentially read him the riot act, but I reminded her that with his characterization of her as “Fatal Attraction” material, it would just play into his hands. F?WW agreed with my assessment, and the matter hasn’t come up since.

Second, he dumped her to save his own hide. That POS is backpedalling harder than any NFL cornerback trying to cover Randy Moss. I managed to find a profile with picture that he had on a speed dating site through a Google search cache dated December 7, fittingly enough. He’s trying to save his sorry butt, so even if F?WW tried to break NC, he won’t answer or respond. OMW makes three times as much as he does, so getting 86’ed isn’t exactly in his best interests. It’s not exactly flattering, but it’s good enough for now and I’ll take every bit of good fortune that comes my way. If F?WW’s going through any kind of WD, it’s quiet and subtle. I think F?WW was slapped so hard in the face with a wet fish that maybe she had some sense knocked into her. Her actions indicate that, although I know there are ways around anything.

There is one worrisome development, but not from F?WW. I exposed to the OMW as soon as I found out she existed. Since our hour-long phone conversation, the OMW has not been in contact with me. I sent her some cell phone records to back up what I told her, and called her the next day and left a message on her work phone. No response. I waited a couple of days, and sent her a text message on her cell phone. Again, no response.

There are three scenarios that I see for this.

One, she’s bought into OM’s bushwah and doesn’t believe me. He’s obviously experienced in this kind of thing, so he hasn’t left much of a paper trail. Denial would be easier for her to deal with.

Two, she already knows he’s been playing around, as evidenced by OM’s ex-girlfriend of two years ago that everyone assumed he’d been living with. If that’s the case, she lied to me on the phone about there being no past indication of his present performance. F?WW says this has to be the case, because there’s no way she didn’t know about the xGF. The camper shell he claimed to live in was actually in the xGF’s yard at the time.

Three, she’s gathering evidence and will nail him with it when she has her ducks in a row. If that’s the case, why didn’t she call from her work phone? He can’t access records of that.
There’s a fourth, remote possibility. They might be ready to go after me with some sort of scam or charges. I’m vulnerable to that as someone very prominent in the community. F?WW mentioned that I’m more vulnerable than she is. But I don’t consider that likely.

For starters, I don’t think a harassment charge would be taken seriously. He’s eight years younger, five inches taller, and is ex-military. Who would believe a grey-headed old fart who had just undergone joint replacement surgery could do any damage to him? Of course, if they did something like this, it would hit the front page of the newspaper and wouldn’t go away until it was over. With my reputation, OM might get laughed out of town anyway, but it would leave a stench that could possibly cost me my job, innocence be damned. But like I said, that possibility is so remote I don’t even know why I’m worried about it. That is, other than the fact that paranoia has become a way of life for me lately.

F?WW signed up for MySpace today, and told me she wants to do a page with both of us together on it. All her co-workers are on MySpace, along with family members (my family does Facebook, FYI) so it’s logical. OM and OMW are also on MySpace, so I can see this as her version of giving him the finger, so to speak. I can live with that part of it, to be honest. I’d like to give him the whole fist, but for reasons listed in the previous paragraph, that’s not a good idea for any number of reasons.
I can’t see F?WW still harboring any kind of good feelings toward that piece of pond scum. She told me about a conversation they had last fall, where OM said that he could lie right to her face, and she’d never know. He then added “But I wouldn’t.” Right.

Of course, she could be doing that to me right now, but there are just so many indicators that it’s not the case. She lost her freakin’ mind about two years ago, and getting kicked in the head seems to have jarred things back into their proper order.

I hope, anyway.

All right, have at it. I’m wearing the cup I had from when I played baseball. I suspect I might need it.

INCOMING - Prepare asbestos undies

What the hell are you thinking. Your WIFE tries to innitiate contact with OM through "friend" and you see that as a GOOD SIGN that the affair is dead? Are you insane?

She's PINING for him man - wake up.


No she's not in withdrawal and NOT a FWW as evidenced by her ongoing attempts at contact. She clearly hasn't had ANY sense knocked into her.


Leave OM'sW alone. You told her about the affair - move on and don't worry.


Get her to un-sign up from myspace.


Indeed!

There needs to be NC with the toxic friend that was the go between for the affair.

The WW went fishing with an email to her to see if the OM was sniffing around for her. And incase he was to do the same this TF could pass these little tidbits on to each of them.

NC, means any means of finding about the OM and his life. So there can not be my space for you or your WW becaue OM is there.

AHOC, if an affair is "dead" that is demonstrated by DEATH. If there are still attempts at contact, then that means = NOT DEAD. When your wife stops trying to contact the OM, the affair will be DEAD. But until that happens, it ain't DEAD.

Setting up a page on myspace is a very bad idea. It gives her a new way to contact the OM and spy on him...........and stay triggered.

Just curious, why is the "friend" taking messages from the OM? What kind of "friend" is this exactly?

Mel,

This is the "friend" who acted as a go-between a couple of weeks ago before I found out about OMW, did the exposure to her, and found out about the OM's precautionary character assassination games in case the F?WW blew things up on him. Said "friend" is on the toxic list, and F?WW knows it. That's why F?WW told me about the texts she sent to the "friend" at first opportunty (the following morning) and why she sent them. She had no idea that I'd already read them off her cell phone, and gave me almost a verbatim quote of the text. Point to F?WW.

F?WW is dying to give the OM a hickory scalp massage. Funny thing, I understand what she wants to do -- and it would be epic. If I were an objective observer, I'd love to hear this conversation, because you just don't piss off an Irish/Italian girl, especially this one. Trust me, you just don't.

She feels humiliated. Not a bad thing from my perspective, of course -- she deserves to feel that way. After d-day, and the first attempt at setting up NC, I told her what kind of pond scum the OM is and she naturally didn't want to listen. Now she agrees with me.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Any type of contact would start the whole cycle over again, and I've managed to give her logical reasons not to do it.

F?WW is spending her energies right now trying to make things right. I can tell part of the problem for her is that it's impossible to prove a negative, and she's wracking her brain trying to figure out what to do. I'd love to have an answer to this myself.

In fact, this morning just before she left for work, she gave me a greeting card that was an abject apology for what happened, assuring me she loves me the way she did back when we first got married. F?WW knows bare words aren't enough. She's trying.

I'm still all over the place emotionally. When I'm around her, it's clear that she's doing all the things she's supposed to be doing, and none of the things she's not. But when we're not together, I start wondering what's going on. I'm finding it almost impossible to concentrate at work, and I can't sleep, and all those other good things.

She also quit smoking this weekend. The first time she quit, it lasted almost 15 years. She knows how much I hate her smoking, and I appreciate what she's trying to do. I know it isn't easy.

I'm going to kill the MySpace thing today. You and BK have just confirmed my initial reaction. Honestly, I think she wants to do it as an announcement to the world that we're fully together, but having even the slightest opportunity to open a door that needs to stay closed is too much of a risk to take.

More feedback, please.

AOTC,

What scares me here is that I see you justifying contact so long as she is honest about it...Does it really make it better if she tells you that she is actively betraying you? Me thinks not...Being "honest" about bad behavior doesn't change that it is BAD BEHAVIOR, capiche? What she is doing is still damaging you and your marriage...That MUST stop...Only when it stops can you begin recovery...

And really, this "hate" that she now has for the OM just keeps her passionate about him...Do you understand that even if she called him to "tell him off" that it would STILL be a FIX for her? Any contact is bad contact and is a threat to your marriage...

Also, do not allow yourself or her to justify anything she has done because she was somehow "duped"...No sir, she committed adultery WILLINGLY...Any "lies" told by a man willing to have an affair with a married woman were to be EXPECTED - Neither of you should be shocked by that...You get that, right?

Mrs. W

MW,

Does it really make it better if she tells you that she is actively betraying you? Me thinks not...Being "honest" about bad behavior doesn't change that it is BAD BEHAVIOR, capiche? What she is doing is still damaging you and your marriage...That MUST stop...Only when it stops can you begin recovery...

And really, this "hate" that she now has for the OM just keeps her passionate about him...Do you understand that even if she called him to "tell him off" that it would STILL be a FIX for her? Any contact is bad contact and is a threat to your marriage...

She didn't make contact, which is the point. Also, she discussed it with me before doing anything, and let me know exactly what she was thinking. No secrets, which is a huge step. She recognizes that making contact would be bad for what we're trying to do. And, yes I understand the fix part of things. I'm giving her several reasons not to do it, both emotional and logical. I'm not trying to fight fire with fire, but fight fire with water.

Also, do not allow yourself or her to justify anything she has done because she was somehow "duped"...No sir, she committed adultery WILLINGLY...Any "lies" told by a man willing to have an affair with a married woman were to be EXPECTED - Neither of you should be shocked by that...You get that, right?

Actually, she gets it, too. In our conversation on Saturday, she made it clear that she understands that exact point, which is even more important than ME understanding it. Small steps and all that. As for her buying his marital status lie, two years ago, before any of this crap started, he told me he was divorced and I believed it too, for what it's worth. He's a professional liar.

AOTC,

So long as WW is interested in contacting OM for any reason the A is not dead. Your WW reminds me of my OW. I'm telling you right now that if she calls OM to tell him off or give him the finger, the BW will be laughing her butt off at how pathetic WW is and OM doesn't have to say a word.

Leave OMW alone. She's probably kicking OM's butt and downgraded him from his trailer to a portapotty. If she wants to speak with you she will contact you.