What better way to cut down court cases!? Remember, these people don't know and don't give a rats [censored] about your child. You think they care more about your child? ha! They don't even know your child. They only care about making their own jobs as smooth as possible.

When I got divorced, I was really puzzled that the court had the NERVE to tell me to go to a parenting class. Who are they and how were they qualified to tell me how to parent??

It was none of their business so I declined their offer to have their nosy noses in my personal business! I have never understood this part of the process. How does getting a divorce oblige some stranger to have a say over your parenting skills?

Allow me to disagree.

The parenting class should have been a clue to my exww that the system believes in the involvement of both parents in a child's life.

Mediation, counselors, kid's attorneys, and everyone I've run into believe that the involvement of both parents is important in the kid's lives.

Now, if my ex had actually recognized this and acknowledged it and worked on a compromise with me we could have both avoided buying our attorneys new cars.

But she insisted on maintaining a hardline stance which ultimately backfired on her since the system DOES indeed recognize both my presence in the kids' lives and the importance of my influence on them.

This entrenched mentatility did not work in her favor and she should have clued in during the parenting class that the system doesn't just automatically favor moms.

I saw strangers who tried to approach things fairly and I feel I got a fair chance.

That being said, I also wished the system punished adultery and those who break up families because they clearly don't have their kid's interests at heart.

I learned through my father's infidelity that a cheater isn't just cheating on a spouse but on their entire family. The betrayal extends to the children. Their selfish acts impact the children most of all since the BS eventually moves on, but children don't.

I'd love nothing more than chance to decide to go visit my family, but have to choose between mom and dad right now and it stinks.

Exww has now imposed this double life on the kids for her own selfish reasons.

We might attack the system, but we'd be attacking it for not having parenting courses.

Yes, I'll agree with the judge. A whole lot of heartache could have been saved if the exww acknowledged and compromised versus fought.

I can understand that it is the state's responsibility to step in where there is known child abuse/neglect.

However, it is none of their business how I raise my children. Getting a divorce does not forfeit my sovereignty over my children or my household. These nameless bureaucrats are not qualified or entitled to stick their noses into my business anymore than I am entitled to tell them how to raise their children.

Lets keep in mind that these are people who don't even KNOW your child, much less LOVE them and they are hardly qualified to tell others how to be parents of their own children.

Anyway, in my own divorce, I told the nosy nanners to mind their own damn business, that if I needed help in my parenting, I would get it on my own.

Melody,

I agree with you, but there is a need for coaching of parents when it involves divorce. They may not tell you how you should feed or dress your kids, but they can certainly teach you about the damage done to kids when there is parental conflict.

Listening to one parent bad mouth another isn't good.

My dad was a cheater, but I didn't like hearing my mom tear him apart. Some of the criticism was well deserved, but there were many times it went over the line.

It would not be good for me to say bad things about exww to my kids and vice versa.

There's also damaging behavior which needs to be corrected and the only means of doing that is to the state.

Exww, for example, dragged DD6 into a disagreement between us about a birthday party. She told DD6 that she couldn't go because of me. She may not have used those exact words, but the fact was that the issue hadn't been settled between exww and I and the next thing I know I have DD6 calling me crying that she wants to go to a party.

A responsible adult would not have told the child about the event and would have tried to work something out with the other parent before letting the child know that there was something going on that they could or could not go to.

The child was dragged into the middle of a disagreement between adults.

My therapist said this tied directly with my lack of response to the tantrum she threw regarding the party and my failure to respond as exww intended. She says that when that didn't work she dragged DD6 into it as leverage to get me to comply and the biggest mistake I can make was to cave to my ex's tantrum and demands.

This type of behavior is abuse. It isn't physical, but it's emotional abuse of a child which the state can and does acknowledge.

So the only people that can do anything about this are those in the system.

How can they intervene? By talking to the parents involved about what is and isn't right about what we say to kids about the other parent.

So you're right, the state shouldn't tell you how to parent on basic stuff, but when it comes to divorce I think it is very much in it's sphere of influence to tell the parents to stop the bickering and put the kids first.

I suspect that most parents are better judges of what is or isn't good for their children than some crapwit down at the courthouse who doesn't know or love your child. The parent would be much better judge of whether they needed coaching or not. After all, these people have not established their own bonafides, nor were they invited to offer counsel.

I have no desire to go intrude on their personal lives and I would never allow the same from them. That would be like me showing up at my neighbors home, uninvited, and announcing that they needed "coaching" to be better parents. I assure you they would tell me to mind my own damn business just as I did the court in my divorce.

Melody,

I have no doubt you need little coaching when it comes to parenting, but I can say with 100% confidence that exww thinks she's a good mom.

She doesn't see dragging DD6 into arguments is bad. She doesn't see moving away and trying to minimize the kids' contact with me as bad.

She doesn't see that they way she has acted infront of the kids towards me is bad.

I'm 100% sure she justifies her behavior in every way in her head.

The only means I have to correct her is through official means.

Does she need coaching as a parent? Absolutely.

Does she think she does? Probably has the same adamant feelings you do.

The question of whether the state should impose a mandatory parenting class upon individuals who are divorcing is very interesting. I had to think about this one for a minute.

First off, let me say that the class was focused 100% on protecting the children from the selfish actions of parents who unintentionally hurt their children through their malicious feelings toward the ex-spouse.

I can honestly say that this was the focus and that the first thing they started out with was statistics that show that the divorcing parents tend to underestimate the emotional damage done to children by the divorce and then they showed heart wrenching videos of children sharing their feelings about the splitting up of their parents.

The parenting course wasn't so much a course on how to raise your kids but how to interact with the co-parent in a way that prevents additional damage to your children. I thought this was a very good thing and I did learn a lot although I did question the video clip of the judge saying that a spouse would be better off letting a less-than-perfect spouse have their way and avoiding a custody battle. Perhaps I heard this wrong, but that's what I understood from what he said.

This being said (that the class is not to teach you how to raise your kids but how to act like a responsible adult with the co-parent to prevent emotional damage to your child), could the state may be entitled by the constitution to require a mandatory class on this subject if one feels that this class provides for the common defense of innocent children?

This may be a liberal interpretation of the constitution's purpose to provide for the common defense, but I think it might possibly be interpreted that way.

Having said all this, I am open for further thought on the subject. I consider myself politically conservative and prefer the government to stay out of our hair on 99% of issues and I think the government is way way too big and has crossed the line on what it was intended for: protecting its people's rights to the life, liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness; and to provide for the common defense.

I think that state and federal governments have no business telling free citizens how to parent. It is not their place and is none of their business. Yes, children are hurt by divorce. But that is still none of the government's business; it does not entitle them to intrude on my private life unless I am doing something illegal. Divorce is legal, after all.

I would emphasize that nowhere have we given bureaucrats authority over our children or our parenting abilities, outside of unlawful acts. If I ever have a problem with my parenting, I will choose my own counsel and it won't be some self important crapwit down at the courthouse.

pom, but none of that entitles you or the government to tell her how to parent. That is her right to parent how she sees fit unless she is breaking the law. And unless she is breaking the law, it is none of the governments business.

What if I decide you are a bad parent? Does that entitle me to intrude on you and force you to become the kind of parent that suits me?

For example, my sister is a loony liberal and does not allow her son to play with toy guns. My nephew is so obsessed with guns because of my sister's nutty mythological fears about them that he fishes toilet paper cylinders out of the trash to shoot people with. God help us all if he ever gets his hands on a real gun! She has fed an obsession with her nonsense.

She also never discliplines her children so they are ill-behaved, ill mannered, self centered and very angry. She wants to be their "friend." The lunatics run the asylum and the kids are angry and insecure because no adult is in charge.

I think she is a rotten parent so does that entitle me to force her into parenting classes? [taught by me, of course! ]I do not approve of her parenting skills and I have KNIGHTED myself an authority over her. Is that ok with you?

Or is it none of my damn business how she raises her kids since she has a right to raise them how SHE sees fit? See, I may not respect how she raises her kids, but I sure as hell respect her right to raise them how SHE sees fit.

Hey Mel,

Do you share your opinion w/ your sister?

Too funny about your nephew using toliet paper cylinders for guns. LOL

Boys are funny that way. They will turn anything into a gun.

When my younger son was about 5, he started asking for a pocketknife. (He had plenty of toy guns.)

The night before his sixth BD, he told me "It is hard to go to sleep knowing that tomorrow you might get a pocketknife!"

LOL

Poor kid had to wait for that pocketknife a while longer.

Mel,

You are spot on about this!! It is NONE of the government's business how I raise my children UNLESS I break the law and they are in immediate harm.

By the way...I have a policy in my house of buying each kid a rifle when they turn 7 years old. It is their rifle, but Dad holds onto it until they are 18. Then, starting at 7, we begin to learn things such as firearm safety, when to use a firearm, and then train them to use them. Because I have done this, my kids have never tried to get into the gun closet, and are very good shots! They understand that guns are serious things. They also understand that they are tools, just as a hammer or blow torch is a tool. And with the hammer and blow torch, if not used properly and for their stated purposes, damage can happen, both to property and persons.

I am so sick of the nanny state our government has turned into. Trying to make me comfortable and safe. Take the seat belt law.

Okay, as far as I am concerned, you are an idiot if you dont wear your seatbelt! My wife is an RN in an emergency room, and she has seen what happens to the human body when it is ejected from a car...it aint pretty! BUT...the government has no right to mandate I use a seatbelt. If I want to risk my life, that is my choice (and we can choose to risk our lives because we have something in this country called liberty). Now, I dont have a right to risk others lives. So, a law stating I must put children under the age of 18 in car seats and seatbelts is justifiable. But the government has no right to tell me to put on my seatbelt. It is not illegal to be stupid!

Or wear a helmet on a motorcycle. Or stop eating fatty foods. Or dont smoke. Or a myriad of other things that the nanny state has told me I have to do.

What happened to liberty in this country? What happened to rugged individualism? We have turned into a nation of wimps!! The economy slides (which it does from time to time), and we all start panicking and looking to Washington to save our butts! How about pick yourself up, and at the same time grab your neighbor's hand and help him up??? Stop giving away your liberty to people in government, when they really dont care and really cant help you!

I am livid right now with how these folks are spending my money. And how everyday, they think up something new for me to have to do. Some new hoop to jump thru. I am tired of it. Stop spending my money!!

Eric, sorry for the threadjack (as Mortarman goes to splash water on his face).

Guys,

I understand where you're coming from. Really I do. I'm a conservative myself.

But I think there is a role in terms of the courts. An educational video about the proper interaction between divorced parents is a matter of interest to the state. Why?

Well, look at the statistics on kids coming from divorced homes. It obviously has an impact in terms of crime, teenage sex, drug use, etc. So the state does have an interest in at least providing some sort of feedback to parents regarding kids when divorces happen.

Check my thread on the latest happenings in my case. The only person I can really hope to resolve anything through is court appointed. I would otherwsie be dealing with exww directly and getting nowhere.

Just had something happen today which I'm going to post about.

Again, my ex is being difficult, unreasonable, and is apparently stepping way over the line on some things.

I'm sure she feels justified in her actions, but I have no one to address this through other than the court appointed parenting coordinator.

Her behavior impacts my kids. The only means to address this behavior is through the court system and the court appointed staff assigned to oversee the dyanamics at play.

She's obviously not going to listen to me if I tell her that something she's doing is damaging the kids or could hurt them in the long run.

How else am I to address it but through the courts?

And the crowd roars with shouts, whistles and applause.

You have my vote MM -

Thanks.

Where is the pitchfork carrying emoticon?

pom, but again, it is none of the state's business. They work for us, not the other way around. They need to keep their noses where it belongs unless there are laws being broken. Thier job is to faciliate divorces and mind their own damn business. Leave the social engineering to others.

That is so cute, MM! Yes, I did share my views with my sister and got a load of irrational exuberance and gun wacko bumper stickers about the "evils" of an inanimate object. I was reminded that you can't reason with a person who uses no reason.

Great post, MM!!

Speaking of guns....

Look at who might run for NRA President! Click here------>

I like it!

The problem with Da NUGE is that he loves freedom! He is one sick cookie!