I think this is too vague. I think if they don't normally help out you need to give them tasks.
First warn them ahead of time so they can mentally prepare. For example in the morning, you could say "This is going to be a cleaning day and I am going to need your help today, okay?"
I am sure they will say okay at that point.

Later on, give them specific tasks. "D18, could you vacuum the floors on the downstairs?" "DH, do you think you could XXX while I YYY?"
Use the thoughtful requests and also be working when they work.

Thanks ears, those help.

wbh, you're right as usual. Thanks.

I was filing papers and H came in and asked what I was doing. Told him. Then he said 'help me put this stuff up', and he put all the Christmas boxes in the attic (they're too heavy for me; I tried last week, and he said he would do it). Then he straightened out the attic! And now he's going through a stack of his papers from the kitchen, looking for the hockey tickets! And he's throwing stuff away!

Cool! Good for you.

Shhh..H is going through his boxes by the bed, looking for his hockey tickets (they were for tomorrow night). I haven't said a word about them all week. He is being very humble about losing them.

I'm really hoping he finds them...

Oh me too; I love hockey. lol

I wonder if one of those shaver thingies would work better Cat? Not sure. I think it's called a plane.

Maybe it's time to buy a tool box for yourself and just starting to put a toolbox together just for Cat...

I did that once, Soolee, and it got swallowed up in the garage of no return. The good thing is that I'm no longer as afraid of angering him as I was a year ago, so I think I'm going to plan to have a garage sale this April (our neighborhood's semi-annual allowed garage sale) and put a LOT of our stuff out. I'll give him warning, but I'm gonna do it.

We've talked about downsizing as soon as our bad money problem allows us to qualify for a new loan, since D18 is leaving this summer for college. No way in hades we could move 4500 sq ft worth of junk (plus a 3-car garage filled to the brim) into a condominium.

I have to confess.

I've looked for those tickets through the entire house, at least 3 times. MrCat has looked a couple times. So last night as a last-ditch effort, I dumped out my daily bag of stuff I carry back and forth to work (hoping to find time to get things done), cos it's the only place I haven't looked, and lo and behold, there were the tickets, stuck in the middle of D18's college paperwork that I needed to help her with. **blush**

MrCat wasn't upset, as he had to admit they were just as easily lost in all his junk, while all I have is one bag. So at least he isn't feeling as defensive with me lately, after all my months of MBing, that he had to blame me. So that's progress.

The kicker is that I bought tickets for Jan. 30, but when I opened the envelope the lady gave me at the ticket window, she gave me tickets for DECEMBER 30! I never even looked at them. Grrr. So I'm going to call today and see if I can get them to exchange them. Doubtful, but we'll see.

Oh, cat, look at you! I'm am thrilled to see how free you are. You are not a timid woman afraid to admit where you made a mistake, afraid of punishment. You're taking charge, calling to see if you can set it straight, instead of having some fear that you are inconveniencing the teller there. Cat, you inspire me, every day. Thanks for being here this morning!

Wow, you're right! I hadn't thought of that, ears! Thanks!

*blush* *giggle* I hate it when that happens!

That sort of thing happens to me too. (Yes, technically things don't happen "to" us, we have some part in it... ) It was a really good sign in our M when H and I were able to apologize to each other and accept each other's apology in such situations, with a little smile and humor and humility and compassion. It's *great* to see y'all getting to that point!!!

I really hope they will see the mistake in the Dec 30/Jan 30 and exchange the tickets. I'd think it would be quite believable since you're doing this on Jan. 30 (when an honest mistake would likely first be noticed) instead of soon after Dec. 30.

I tried O&H this morning, but I doubt it will help. Yesterday I wanted to redo my front yard, but H was in the forest behind the house cutting up all the trees that fell during the hurricane last September. I knew he'd expect/want me to help, so I did, and of course never had time to work on the front yard; didn't finish until dark.

So this morning, H gets up and starts working on his computer. He asked me about reformatting this document full of flyers he created for one of the salespeople from 2 per page to one per page - the salesman told him he didn't want it that way, he wanted it one per page. We determined he'd have to reformat the entire document (hours of work). I told him I thought he should leave it the way he did it, and if the salesman didn't like it, the salesman could spend the time to change it. Of course, H is reformatting it. Honestly, he's doing it because playing with a document is relaxing for him. Plus he doesn't have to do anything for the house, because he's 'working.' Which trumps housework.

So I fumed and fumed, and finally went back into the living room and said "I want to apologize. I told you that you should have R fix the document himself because we spent all day yesterday working on the forest, and I was hoping that you would spend some time today with me, doing something for inside the house. And I knew if you decided to reformat the document, you wouldn't have time to help me. So I'm sorry for being pushy."

Of course, he's still out there reformatting. But at least I told him the truth.

(And see if I ever help him again, lol) J/K

Ya know, this O&H stuff has its drawback. Now that I've told him the truth about hoping he would help me today, and now that I've seen that he chooses NOT to, it just pisses me off.

Hey cat...

You were honest but you weren't *completely* open and totally honest. You told him your agenda for what you'd replied about reformatting the brochure, and you apologized for being pushy... but you still *expected* a certain action from him. And you didn't *come out and directly ASK* him to do the thing that you were *implying* for him to do. You said it in a sort of manipulative way... in the guise of an apology but you weren't really thinking apologetically, were you? You were wanting him to do a certain action as a result of your "apology".

I'm being tough because I think you can handle it, and I think this is something you'd tell others. I think in someone else you'd spot it.

If you want him to help you with the front yard because of your helping him yesterday with the forest, say "Hon, would you mind helping me with the front yard this afternoon for x hours since I helped you with the forest yesterday?"

Of course, ears might also point out that since you weren't *enthusiastic* about helping him with the forest yesterday, that you shouldn't have. No strings attached eh? Let go the response and all that. Either help him cus you want to, or spell out to him the terms of your help in advance, or don't help him.

Yeah, I know. I did feel bad and want to apologize. But I also did want him to want to care. It's noon, it's been 3 hours. I was going to wait til noon to see if he had any intention of cutting short the work for this guy and helping, so that it would be his decision.

In the meantime, I hung up my bulletin board in the kitchen that I've been waiting for him to hang up. Of course, he told me not to hang it up; I told him I wanted it hung up. He told me I was using the wrong screws (from the couch, where he can't even see the kitchen); I showed him the screws that he had taken out of the wall when he took it down in the first place and put in a baggie and taped to the board. I then put them in with his power screwdriver, and he told me I shouldn't use such a powerful drill for such little screws. I did it anyway. I guess we're arguing.

Holy cow, the things that are censored nowadays! Yet you can say Hell's Kitchen. Go fig.

Ya know, I think that's not MB, to "test" our spouse. I know it's tempting, but either I've been called to task or I've seen others called to task for that. And that's what you were doing, by waiting till noon to see if he'd respond to your hint.

Much more O&H to come out and *tell* him *precisely* what you would like, allowing that he is a separate individual and has the power and the right to say no.

Anything else is an SD.

By just hinting, you don't leave open an easy way for him to say no, and you set him up for failure and yourself up for resentment.

Tell the truth - you weren't really O&H with him, were you? You didn't tell him "I'll give you until noon and if you haven't hung this board and started helping me with the front yard by then, I'm going to feel resentful."

Instead, you gave an apology... it would be kinda hard for him to then say, "I accept your apology but I just don't feel like working on the front yard today." It would take a level of self-awareness that a lot of men don't have, plus it would be awkward.

Man, my internet connection is slow cus the kids are playing some Ben 10 online game. Sorry this isn't coming to you any faster.

You're right, of course. But what you're describing is WAY outside my comfort zone. I do good just to look him in the eye and talk, let alone talk about my feelings.

I'd like to think that the next time will be a little easier for me to do it right.

btw, he is cleaning now - vacuuming. But with an attitude. Baiting me about everything, which I choose not to respond to.

I understand it's outside of your comfort zone. I figure it's my job to push you to go outside your comfort zone, and you have the choice of how far you're willing to reach at any given time. Is that ok? If I keep pushing, I mean, and it's ultimately your choice?

Because... with him now helping right now but "with an attitude"... I am wondering if that's a result of the way you approached this, just with a hint rather than a direct question. And setting it up as a test that was all set up for fueling your resentment. He prolly knew what you were hinting, and could prolly tell you were building resentment. But since you didn't come out and ask a direct question, I could imagine his instinctual response might be to also not come out and respond directly, but to express his frustration in the only way that seems open to him - in little snide comments.

I do this when DH isn't open to me actually discussing things with him. It isn't good, it isn't productive, but when I'm frustrated it feels like the only option to express myself.

So now, you helped him all day yesterday against your wishes, but with an unspoken expectation that he would help you today. Well you didn't really expect him to, you actually expected him to not pass your test, and you were building resentment already.

And now, since ultimately you know he does want to please you, he's doing what he thinks you want but he doesn't really want to do it, he feels he didn't really have a say in the matter because it wasn't discussed, and he's building frustration and resentment.

Or not. I'm not in his head, I'm just supposing. LOL

But see how this is leading to both you and him feeling justified in nursing your resentment?

Is that worth getting the floors vacuumed?

Cat, every weekend that you write about sounds like this. Get so frustrated about all the stuff that is to be done, that each of you decide that a specific something *HAS TO* get done this weekend, and if the other doesn't submit to the other's demand, then the full on resentment comes. And if the other does submit to the SD, the full on resentment comes for the one who didn't get to do their own thing.

How would you feel about planning the week out on Sunday, like Dr. H suggests?