I guess the thing is to start looking at how much better your life is now that you've started being honest. I hear you saying that your husband has slipped back into being agro again.

However, how often is he this way, and do you think he'll snap out of it again? Habits are very hard to retrain, and if he's in the habit of thinking "woe is me, everyone is against me", this is hard to snap out of.

happy, that is all he is. The only person I've ever met who is more woe is me is my brother. Guess what, I married my brother (who was my father figure).

D18 and I have asked H before to please try to go even an hour without saying one negative thing. He can't. Literally can't. Because that's how he operates; as long as it's him against the world, he has no guilt for failing - it was everyone else's fault! In a typical hour, we'll hear how the Mexicans are purposely stealing America back by having as many babies as they can, not getting car insurance, and being lazy; how all Blacks are crooks; how the people on our Homeowners Board are idiots; how his coworkers are either lazy or lining their pockets or out to get him fired; how his brother cheated him out of money (15 years ago) and how we're still paying it off (along with the other $80,000 in debt he has accumulated); how every guy D18 knows is a liar or a thief and just wants SF; how her female friends just come here to eat our food or get free rides everywhere...on and on. That's life in our house.

That's why I used to think he was abusive. He's not, now that I know more about it. He's not malevolent; he's self-protective. And OCPD. Which acerbates it because he can't be wrong. So it's impossible for him to admit that he is ever at fault; he would collapse into a puddle of mush if he had to admit that.

*sigh*

I know this sounds cruel, but I know him well enough to see his insecurity, low self-worth, need to blame others, FOO issues.

All I can do is work on me so that I show him how to be happier.

Are you sure you're not married to my husband?

Cat, does anybody outside of you and your D recognize these habits in him? I'm not doubting you, just wondering if he got the same message from a ton of sources, it might help sink in. Sort of like an intervention I guess. On the other hand, that could reinforce the me against the world mentality.

Or mine?

My husband has developed many hair brained ideas, but he is not as verbal as your husband sounds.

My husband is more "right" in how he does things.

And I swear he will take the opposite opinion in even the most casual of remarks, just to be obtuse.

I call him the "all gloom, all doom, all the time" channel. (not to his face)

It is sad they can't see or feel the blessings in their lives, isn't it?

FHL: I think I mentioned to you way back when I thought your DH had OCPD too. I think it was the kitchen towels and how they had to be just so!

Hey, my H insists that the kitchen towels and bathroom towels are folded a certain way! (I was told that *I* should be more flexible. )

cat,
it sounds like you benefit from finding a "label" the same way I do. By labeling him as OCPD you can recognize it's about him, not about you; it's about his insecurities; and you can feel compassion. I think that's great!

OH, lol, don't think so.

dkd, the people in his industry treat him like a god cos he's so good and knows so much; yet he can't get a decent job. Because they know what he's like to work with. I've tried to bring this up before but he wouldn't hear it.

Friday, though, he had a major problem at work, and I helped him through it, and helped him see exactly this. Don't remember if I posted about it here or in some other thread. Bottom line, he knows he knows better than most in his industry, therefore, he never even 'hears' what anyone else has to say, so he has to argue with everyone! He is usually proven right, but in the meantime, he's irritating so many people!

So Friday was a perfect example for me to show him how he rubbed this guy - this potential ally - the wrong way and may have sabotaged himself. He listened to me! And he told me Monday how he used that information and made changes to how he interacted and it worked!

One of our better successes. He's so desperate now that I think we may actually this work angle to get a lot of things worked on, and spill into OUR relationship.

Good to hear that Cat. It's good to hear it from other sources so that he can't just write off as your problem with him only.

FHL, he isn't as abrasive with other people as he is with me, cos he knows I'm not leaving, kwim? But he does always argue with people because he assumes he's right and they just aren't...whatever enough to get on board with him.

Last night he was rehashing the day's work, like he does every night for a good hour, and I noticed that every conversation he relayed, he starts out with the other person's name.

Mark: Why didn't you print out that flyer?
H: Mark! I tried to but George came in.

Tom: I can't find the photos.
H: Tom! I told you it's in the general folder on line.

Bruce: I thought you were gonna have this done today.
H: Bruce! When am I supposed to get it done?

I noticed that every conversation has him using the guy's name in what I consider a confrontational manner. I also noticed that he has an excuse for almost everything. Yes, they expect too much from him cos he's the workhorse. But instead of just saying 'sorry' he always launches into a defense.

So it ties into what I was talking about this weekend with him having to defend himself all.the.time. and disregarding the other guy's potential to be right.

I'm gonna have to get more into this with him, I think.

Jayne, you're right, the labeling helps me, kind of like a crutch for the time being, until I'm stronger.

On the other hand, I'm afraid to label. One, if he gets wind of it, he gets mad and two, I start to look for those traits in him. When I thought he was NPD, I went to all kinds of websites. Then I convinced myself that wasn't it. I was going to start researching OCPD and stopped myself. Whatever he is, he is. I can't change it.

NO!

OH, you've got that all wrong. Knowledge is power. Knowledge is empowerment to improve.

You don't learn about a person's 'label' to change him. You learn about it to recognize it, to learn how to live with it, and to learn how to not make matters worse!

For instance, with OCPD, H has to be right. It hurts him too much to think that he might be wrong, so he simply refuses to consider it (though his latest work catastrophe is getting him to be bend in that area). But knowing that, knowing the triggers, I am learning how not to say the things that trigger his self-defense mode. (usually)

I'm entitled to what I want/need, but there's no need to get it at his expense, kwim? Wouldn't it make sense to know everything you can about such a thing so that you can (1) see it coming and (2) not be part of the problem?

I don't know. It appears I don't know how to not be part of the problem.

That's because you've spent so many years letting him tell you that you ARE the problem. Which is why I recommend a break.

Yes. I understand why some ppl say they don't like to label ppl or that we aren't equipped to diagnose. BUT... it helps to know what sorts of coping skills have helped with ppl having similar traits. It helps to categorize: X works with ppl who are like Y. Z doesn't work with those ppl.

It doesn't have to be a precise medical diagnosis. If the shoe fits, then use the methods that have been shown to be most effective.

If he goes "home" I get a break. What happens after that is a huge question mark. Is he going to find a job there? Is he going to reconnect with old girlfriends or new girlfriends there? And do I care?

I had a fairly decent weekend. I tried really hard to keep MB in mind all weekend long. I took D18 to piano lesson (across town) and she asked her dad to install her GPS in her car while we were gone. Got home, he was out in the forest, GPS not installed. So I got into work clothes and went back there to see if he needed help. Didn't bring up the GPS, didn't nag, so he said he couldn't decided if it was the one he wanted, that he needed to go to the store. So I helped him a little, then went to work on the front yard.

Worked on his resume for part of the day (BAD day at work Friday - BAD), and tried to build him up about how he was worth so much more than the way they're treating him. But I also tried to show him how the psychology dynamics in his office was working, tried to help him find ways to combat it before he gets fired. (yes, fired; they made him sign a paper Friday...)

Also went back and helped him a couple more times, but also went back to my own work. Helped him store some stuff away in the garage. Talked quite a bit over the weekend about how, since D18 is moving away, I want to get out all the stuff that she'll never use again and sell it in the garage sale in April. So I'm preparing him for it without just saying what I'm going to do or asking him for permission (he'd say no based on past experiences). At dusk, he quit working in the forest and actually came out front and dug some holes for me!

My arthritis is getting so bad I can hardly hold a shovel any more.

Visited my mom, and I was carrying this heavy bag of potting soil home, and D18 asked me (H had gone back inside to get his phone) why I don't ask H for help. I told her it's just me, I don't like asking anyone for help. But then said that it's not a healthy way to be, that I hope she doesn't need to be that way. She said no. But she asked me why I never talk to him about stuff like this, which got me thinking.

Got home and H said something about D18 washing her car (a chore she agreed to to get the car); she had felt bad so she went to bed, but he went ahead and started washing her car! I let her know and asked her to go talk to him about it and get it resolved, instead of me dealing with it as usual. In fact, he tried to get me in the middle and I just said 'that's something you and D18 need to work out' and I left. So I kept myself from just stopping my work to please him like I usually do.

So this morning, thinking about what D18 had said about not talking to him and being inclusive and all, and how I never talk about myself, so when we got up I said how I had taken pain pills last night for the arthritis but that it made me itch, and how I kept waking up all night to scratch. His response: 'Well, I ate too much and too late, so my stomach's upset.'

Ticked me off. One of the only times I ever even mention myself, let alone tell him anything personal about myself, and all he can do is turn it back onto him. So my one LB for the weekend (that I can tell) was that, when he said that, I stewed for a few seconds, and then said "Yep. Yours trumps mine." And I got up and got ready for work.

So, because you didn't like his response, it justifies DJing him? What about asking him for clarification? How about putting him on notice ahead of time that his AOs are not working for you, and you are requesting that he "man up" and put that in the past for good?

No, of course not! That's why I was confessing. I worked pretty hard to do things right all weekend, and then blew it in one comment! Granted, I was exhausted for waking up every 30 minutes and having to scratch my whole body, and it hurt my feelings that he didn't (or couldn't) focus on my problem for a change, but he didn't deserve me talking like that.