T2L, I hate to be the one to rain on your parade, but this hanging out he's doing is really worrying me. He was supposed to fix the sink and leave. That was, what, 8 hours ago? I love that you're making him jealous, but I hate that he has once again insinuated himself back into the family - AGAIN!

You specifically told your son he couldn't come in the house, and guess what - he's in the house! And you don't say anything.

He knows. He knows all he has to do is get the kids to want him, and he gets whatever he wants.

This is nowhere near a Plan B. I know it's hard with kids, but he's wheedling his way into every nook and cranny he can find, like termites.

What I'm trying to say is that it feels to me like he can go on like this for forever, cos he's getting way too much of a fix of you. And you are not getting YOUR benefit of Plan B - to not have your thoughts revolving around him.

Now mind you, I'm not talking about today's planned events. I think what you're doing is ingenious and necessary for getting him to want to come back. I'm talking about the whole picture - dropping off money for daughter, finding this reason or that reason to come by...it just seems like he's getting too much of a fix, and you're not getting enough of a break from the saga.

Like I said, I'm sorry if this brings you down, but I'm worried.

Hey T2L, sorry I could not talk. Having a small crisis at home. H has been texting D15 for the last hour. I don't want to cut into your sitch. Will go update mine. I think D15 wants to read to you what she texted.

Hope everything is going well. We are praying.

I agree with CAT. This does meet the FAMILY COMMITMENT emotional need and is not good for PLAN B. This may throw you back, IMO.

As I was indicating, Steve wanted me to only have BRIEF CONTACT with my H by phone and that was only when he was trying to reconcile.

I did not give the impression that I was seeing other men. I don't know your story but that would not have worked out in my situation. My H would have rationalized that as justification for what he was doing. He rationalized anything he could to continue his affair.

The key was for him to MISS ME during PLAN B and to think that he could LOSE ME...not to another man though...he still felt comfortable that wouldn't happen..because he knew I was taking the high road UNLIKE him...who had sunk so LOW...

And what the h&ll happened to using IMs?

I just read this T2L and this was EXACTLY like my H. But my H needed to know that I would MOVE ON without him..but it was important for him to continue to believe that I would not have an affair or be with another man. There's a difference. He came to believe that I would MOVE ON as I stated in the PLAN B LETTER but this clearly meant LIVING INDEPENDENTLY and STANDING ON MY OWN TO FEET...not dating or whatever..maybe you and I are saying the same thing but I wanted to make clear what was true in my situation since it's like yours...

I've been with my H since age 18, about 35 years, never been with another man...he knew that...

The OW tried to make him believe that I would be with another man..be a HO like her and him...it was a GOOD thing that I never proved her right...he always felt that he could be sure of that...

Ok y'all. I got rid of him an hour ago. At 8:40 I went to the garage and told DS10 you have to take your shower in 20 minutes(Hint time for you to leave). I went back at exactly 9PM and said Ok son time to shower and get ready for bed. He hugged his dad and said bye, I looked at him and said thank you for fixing my sink. HE said no problem, he said I'll leave in just a minute. I said will you be leaving through the garage? IN other words don't come in, and he says yes can DD17 close the door and i say yes and close the door and leave. So I feel good that I did not have to LB to get him out and he didn't stay til midnight and then ask to stay again. I think he is sad he had to go and that's not my problem, as he needs to feel sad.

I did not plan for him to stay. I planned to be gone while he fixed the sink, which I did. Sink job was a quickie, replace a seal, 30-45 minute job max. I came back 3 hours later to hopefully catch him on the way out in passing. Kids ended up asking him to fix the swimming pool issues too. So when I got here he was half way thru fixing the pool. I said thanks and he said all that he said and then I said LET YOURSELF OUT WHEN YOUR DONE. That was the brief contact I had with him. I did not speak with him after our 5 minutes exchange when I arrived.

I fully expected him to be done shortly after. He then decided to go through the garage and gather some of his belongings to sell on Ebay for extra cash. DD17 then grabbed pizza and when I came out to get some he was at my table. I made small talk, grabbed a slice and went back to my room. I did not eat with them. Where I stayed until I told DS10 time for shower. I stayed out of sight the entire evening except to grab my pizza and I think he knew I would not eat with them and he knew why.

Now when DS10 left garage and said goodbye DD17 thought he was leaving so she went out to say goodbye. H then tried to get her to watch TV with her in garage but she knew I wanted him to go. So she said no thanks and opened the garage door. HE then saw DS10 looking out the window waving and H says is he waiting for me to go? DD17 says yes, he says I should probably go then ha? And DD17 says yes. So he left. Yes I could have kicked him out and caused a scene but I do not want to withdraw from his love bank. I worked hard during PA not to and even during PB I have not.

Other than fixing my sink today I do not see him in passing and we do not talk in anyway shape or form because for the most part I don't really have a reason to as my children are a little older.

THe illusion I am creating can be verified. I did go to lunch with a friend, a church friend. I do talk to new friends everyday here and talking on the phone actually makes it easier, we don't have to wait to post. He can create in his little head what he wants. I basically tried to give a confident I am caring a little less vibe, but not rude.

As far as the IM's I still do all of my communication thru them. You can ask lil old Pep, Neak and Delean. The reason this happened this way was the kids kept putting water in the left sink and it kept flooding and I got after them and said stop putting water in here so DD17 told her dad mom keeps yelling at us over this leaking sink to which he do I need to fix it? This was beginning of week. I had planned on letting it go til next week before answering but he called DS10 last night and said he was coming to visit. SO i told DD17 well I guess you can answer your dad and tell him he can fix sink when he comes to visit son as I will be gone because I do not want to see him.

Neak < - - - - - Incognito again.

FWIW, I think today went stunningly well. The first part went every bit as well as General Pep planned, and I think you did really well handling the excessive staying again. To have been rude, or threatened to call the police, would have taken some of the shine of a superb Plan A.

I think it's far better to have let him have his way today, even though it's the second time, and just come up with new and better ways to keep him out in the future.

So I've been kicking around a few ideas. One of the first ones that pops into mind, would be to have p/u and dropoff for visitations take place somewhere else besides the house.

It's time for a few additional changes, but that in no way takes away from your excellent performance today.

Also, by all means, keep calling and texting. You have a life! You are a salsa queen! You are the one, the only, the amazing T2L!!!!!!!!

And Pepster, I can't wait to hear what you have to say, too. I have a few ideas.

Listen up, pup.

Why are you afraid to have a dude on the new phone voicemail?

Why did you not get dressed in skanky clothes and say you are going out to meet (heaven forbid) a MAN!

The goal here is to convince him that you will not wait forever for him to return to his family. That you will not sit home like a spinster?

Do what you must do- to get your husband to realize that you are not a 85 year old spinster. (sorry Mb ers who are 85+)

There is a policy of radical honesty.
That means, T2L that In the FUTURE
WHEN or IF he comes home-
He asks you "who was that guy on voicemail" or "Who were you going out to DATE (awww!) the night I fixed the sink?"

You sweetly look him in the face and say:
"I was fighting for our marriage and I wanted you home. I knew if you thought I was going to sit here, things were not going to change. The things I did were to get you to realize what this marriage really meant to YOU."

Enough said.

That is RADICALLY HONEST. That is all you are supposed to do in recovery.

He will either laugh,or be pissed-- as a FWS-- he should understand your intentions to fight for your marriage.

T2L, I really really wasn't trying to condemn what happened yesterday or to question your Plan B. I think it was awesome what you did. I was just trying to get you to REFOCUS, now that you've had this success.

Because I've seen what he does. He is very conniving. He is very good at seeing what he needs to do to get his fix.

That's why I was trying to get you to refocus back on your Plan B, now that you have shaken him up a bit.

In no way did I want you to create a scene to get him out. That wasn't the issue. IMO, the issue is to ensure he doesn't do this AGAIN, because I will bet you money he is sitting in his apartment already planning the NEXT time he just happens to be dropping by (what happened to his pre-arranged times to visit the kids?) and fenagles his way into getting to stay at the house ALL DAY LONG again.

That's what I was trying to get you to protect yourself from. I mean, my god, you have told him not to even park his car in front of your house - MORE THAN ONCE, and here he is COMPLETELY ignoring your feelings by plopping out IN your house and thumbing his nose at your feelings.

That's what I was trying to say. I didn't mean to offend you.

I'll bow out if you want since I don't know the full history of your situation T2L. BUT I wonder what Mortarman would think about this situation. It seems NOWHERE near the DARK PLAN B he kept recommending to me and I think worked for me/US....

It's important for the WS not to get ANY FIXES through contact with the BS... Mortarman kept telling me this would set me back and it DID...

My H would get FIXES from THE HOUSE..these occasions WOULD relieve his PAIN and SUFFERING from being gone..he would visit his clothes in his closet...actually STAND in the closet and move stuff around and touch different items...

Also, I think your H is getting RELIEF by continuing to think of himself as honoring his FAMILY COMMITMENT by FIXING STUFF..YUCK...

AND..Steve Harley warned me against use of any of the 180 stuff..important not to make the WS think that I was being unfaithful...

Good mornin y'all.

CAT,
Oh no offense taken dawhling. I understand and know most people who post for me are for me and not against me.

I think that H did know that I did not want him in the house. Aside from fixing the sink while I was gone, and eating a few slices of pizza he was not inside the home while I was there. He stayed out in the garage, kinda sad, this man that was once such a fairly good guy now reduced to staying out in a garage. He knew I did not want to eat with him because as scooted out to garage as soon as he was done.

The 2 times he has gotten in so far are because my son asked him to play pool last week after visitation drop off(i forgot to lay the rules out to him, but had already done so to DD17) and yesterday when I asked him to fix the sink while I was away.

I do agree he gets a fix because truly he loves being at the home and he loves being with us, but until he does something about that It's not my problem.

I am continuing in PB. HE will be visiting the kids away from the house at least when DD17 can get in DS10's car. And my IM's and I have discussed having it very dark away from the house and a few other things too.

I can see now by his comments to me yesterday of wow you look great, its good to see you and never hard to see you and the hug by force, that maybe he still cares for me. I do not however understand why he won't jump in and come home, especially after those comments. IDK.

I feel something is up in affair land. The cell calls last month decreased by half and went 2 times with out calls for 5 days each, he says those things to me, something is up. Part of me believes he is waiting for that stupid lease to be up as he has mentioned he doesn't want to break the lease and be charged with $2500. During PA he told me he has an 8 month lease. Its up April 1st. Or maybe he is waiting to tell her he doesn't want to re-new the lease, IDK could all be wrong.

Anyways I am letting his mind create the scenario. I am just getting dressed to go have lunch and all my friends from MB are calling me. I am hoping that aside of these minor spottings of T2L all the work I have done, kick b*tt plan A, a fairly ok Plan b, and the little passing by, will all work together. I mean PrincessMeggy is recovered and she had none of this. For me I have tried to be strategic as best as I could.

I am hoping things are shifting. He was really glad to see me, it was apparent. HE grabbed and hugged me after all that trash he talked to DD17 a while back about me begging for the hugs and me being the one to initiate it, I tried 2 times to get away too LOL and then saying it was good to see me and I half rejected his comment by saying well its pretty hard to see you and he still comments again by saying well its never hard to see.

Anyways, I have been praying the God would show him the love he still had for me, he may not realize he still does. I prayed before I walked in yesterday, Lord reveal to him the feelings he still has for me. His desire for me can't come back til he realizes he desires me, I think and hope yesterday may have done it. IDK, maybe not, but I did get a fixed kitchen sink and the kids jumped in the jacuzzi he fixed and stayed in til midnight having a good time.

Hi Mimi,

Thanks so much for sharing I really do appreciate it and any input you have been given by the Harleys and your experience really is completely welcomed so no don't blow out.

Yes I do agree that H has a bit of the hero complex, think that may have been the open door for this. HE of course affaired down, this girl was a mess from what I hear and little old Pastor Mr. T2L was gonna help her out and probably offer counsel and she started worshiping him and there it went...

I know that individuals with small children have to do a slightly modified PB for what ever reason. So a PB can be done when they pass children at the door or pull sleeping lil ones from cars with small sightings of each other in passing. I am hoping I can still do that as well. In 11 weeks I have had only 2 sightings, and 1 phone call. During those sightings I did not cave my boundaries and repeated the PBL. Other than yes he has gotten information to me by stinky comments to DD17 HE has not heard me, seen me, got a text from me, an email from me, nuttin. The only part of my PB that I may have not been as good at is on my side. His side has been dark. My side has not been quite as dark because I think to much and have heard some of his dumb comments.

So anyways whenever you have any input you feel may be helpful by all means post it.

T2L:
I so envy you right now. I have tears in my eyes because I long for what you got yesterday. I wish my WH would stop by and see the kids he left 35 days ago. I wish he would grab me for a hug like he used to and tell me that he still cares. But I can't have another false recovery so it's dark Plan B and D.

I know you need to preserve your heart and not settle for crumbs, but at least he still has feelings for you.

I think the more you mess with him with the phone calls, dates and other stuff, the better. Does he by chance monitor your credit card bills? If so, maybe you want to order something from an "inappropriate" website -- beyond Victoria's Secret if you know what I mean. I've been thinking of doing the same thing. Let WH think his boring, predictable W is now into sex toys.

Well if you REALLY want to freak him out, order something from Adam & Eve. I guess they are still around. Gray used to get their catalogs. Even ordered some stuff from them. Videos...I think lingerie, too. (For me.) No toys, though. (BORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRING!!) LMAO!!

Damn! Wish I woulda thought of that just to mess with his head!! That would have been HILARIOUS!! Well, I could still do that with eBay...I KNOW he watches my account. LMAO!!

I'm sure they know they are being watched and that's why the voodoo doll was so blatantly purchased. Stupid ****stick!!

LMAO!!!!

No, it's not about the lease. He may tell himself that, but it's not. He can be free any time he chooses to be.

He has to pay $2500 in penalty fees, or he has to pay rent for Feb., March and April? Yeah that's smart. :RollieEyes:

I'm tellin ya, if this boy don't come home soon then there's something wrong with him and IMHO you don't want him! I can't believe he isn't knocking on your door in tears agreeing to NC right now!

Neak is right tho. He could easily go no contact, I can write a check for his half up to that point. So he can come home. I think he wants to come home. I just don't know what it will take for him to get there.

He said in PA that he didn't want to hurt anyone else(Sea Hag) and I replied well the kids and I are hurting and hes says i know but time has to take its place(whatever).

BTW he looked at all the newly hung pictures and the kids said he looked for a long time and didn't say 1 word.

Your did fine my dear. Even with the unexpected left turn WH took.
Anywho - it was fun talking to you and texting on the phone.
Yes, he got his "fix". And also yes, he's a little more worried now than he was before.
Change the locks on the house and the garage too. If he has a garage door opener, change the access code.

Ello, Yes I enjoyed talking too, thanks for everything you guys! My IM's rock! I know he got a "fix" but we can go right back dark and hopefully he will start to see he wants to be here, that's the hope at least.


Locks all changed as soon as he left, garage door too. He knows this. He has no access in. He was only given access yesterday for the sink stuff.

I am glad however my pool is fixed and i didn't need to hire the warranty guys. Kids had a blast in the jacuzzi after he left. LOL

K y'all keep the calls coming. The billing cuts off February 15th, LOL.

I hope he's worried, he should have been long time ago. Guess he must be with those comments. I am assuming he made them to still show his interest correct?

There are doubtless layers which I won't even attempt to plumb. I think he's sincere on the one hand - but not yet in enough pain to leave the Hag, and also testing to see if he still has an effect on you.

Definitely, he's worried.