Well I found out last night after dinner. It is now 4:40 am and I think I have gone through all of the stages in One night!

I am 46 and been married to WS for 26 years. I am going in tomorrow for a biopsy in my breast. I am scared to death about what they will find. I just kept telling him that I know he is seeing someone--- no proof and in denial I guess?! I told him I wanted to know before I possibly could be going into the fight of my life where I stood with him. I just wanted the truth. Last year and a half has been crazy--dd got engaged, graduated college and married, so to say I have been preoccupied is an understatement. Well so he says yes I have been seeing someone. I was in shock. But the bigger shock was that he has been seeing her for 2 yrs.

If this had happened in my 20's or 30's I probably would have seen no way I would have stayed in the marriage. As I have aged I believe there are good years and bad years and I love him and he is the only man for me. I have never so much as even kissed another man.

So after some crying and shaking and feeling like I was going to throw up or pass out I said to him that I forgive him and that I wanted to do whatever it takes to get our marriage back. He said he was sorry and that the reason he was still here is that he loves me--- cuz I asked why are you still here if you have seen her for 2 yrs? Well he says I do not listen to him and I do not respect him. When I got furious and asked specific questions about her he answered a few and then said he did not want to talk about it anymore since it was just upsetting me.

HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!

I told him I needed to contact EAP(employee assistance program) cuz I needed to talk to someone. He did not offer to go to couple counseling and he did not expect this information to come out. They are still seeing each other and I asked ---Do you love her?? His response was I don't know?? What is up with that answer??

Thank you in advance for your prayers and your advice.

Is the OW someone from his office?

Read up on Plans A and B here, and Exposure 101. First things you'll need to do are to identify and eliminate LBs, identify and fill his primary ENs, and use exposure if necessary to bust up the A.

Why do you forgive him so easily?


Okay, you're making a couple of strategic mistakes here.

When you react to Openness & Honesty with an Angry Outburst, you teach him that your marriage is not a safe place to be honest. So when he tells you difficult truths, when it gets to be too much, thank him for his honesty and excuse yourself from the room until you've had a chance to calm down. Go for a run or a walk or a kick boxing class if you need to work off the anger.

He says you do not listen to him. Pay attention to how you interact with him, conversationally. Do you interrupt him? Do you let your mind wander? Do you finish his sentences for him, assuming you know what he was going to say? Do you let him finish speaking and then say something totally unrelated? Figure out why he thinks you don't listen to him and fix that.

When he says you do not respect him, what does he mean? You guys could probably benefit from learning about POJA (policy of joint agreement) and following it. Read up on POJA and see if you think that would help dissipate his feelings of not being respected.

He may say he doesn't feel respected but mean he doesn't feel admired. Admiration is a big EN for many men. Read up on it and see if there are some things you could do to better meet this EN, if it's one of his top ones.


He doesn't know because you are meeting some of his ENs and she is meeting some of his ENs. He feels attracted to both of you.

You need to:
1. Expose the affair
2. Get your LBs under control, pronto!
3. Meet his top ENs

Do not try to educate him as you learn about marriage builders. He is wayward and a wayward does NOT appreciate education. He will perceive it as controlling and manipulative behavior on your part. Just keep your new knowledge to yourself and work the plans quietly.

When you expose, do NOT tell him you are going to. If he knows in advance, then he gets to tell everyone what a jealous, possessive, crazy person you are. Then when you expose, guess what? You look like a jealous, possessive, crazy person.

When you expose, DO expose all at once. Expose to everyone who will have any influence on the affair partners.
His parents
Your parents
Your children
OW's husband
WH's boss
OW's boss
CEO
Head of Human Resources
Priest/Pastor

You can keep it short and to the point:
WH is having an affair with OW. I'm determined to do whatever it takes to recover my marriage and become a better wife. I'd appreciate your support of WH, and me during this tough time. Do you have any advice?

Exposure at work is less personal and more business-like. Here is a template that's posted here from time to time:

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

BS

When you expose, your WH will be FURIOUS. Expect this. He will tell you all the standard things, like "I was going to leave her and work on the marriage but you blew any chance of that!" or "How can I ever trust you again?!" When he spouts this kind of anger and vitriol, just tell him that you're prepared to do whatever it takes to save your marriage. Then change the subject.

Post here often. The more you post, the more people will respond to you.

KK
I am so sorry that you have to be here, but you have found a wonderful place where most of the people have been through EXACTLY what you are going through. So first off, know that that you are not alone and you can find peace again.

I know your head is reeling from what you have just found out. Heck I could not function at all when I found out. So try to stay calm and do what needs to get done (your health issues, etc). Infidelity is going to be a huge part of your life for the next couple of years so let's take this one step at a time.

If you can, read up on everything on this site. If you haven't already look at a few of the posts at the top of this forum and read them. They are for newcomers and they can get you on your way to understanding A's and why people have them. They also give you links to Plan A and B and to some of the books that you should read.

Your WH is cake eating right now. You are meeting many of his ENs. The OW is also meeting some of his ENs. He likes it this way, who wouldn't? KWIM? He could actually be addicted to the feelings that he is getting when he is around her. The fact that he said that she RESPECTS him tells me that one of his top ENs is ADMIRATION. A lot of men have that need. And A LOT of A's begin with a woman doting on and telling a man how great he is. Sometimes it's the beginning of the end so to speak. So that is why he told you that's the reason. But really it's HIS reason, his JUSTIFICATION for going outside of his M to get his needs met. There is no excuse for an A. It was his choice and he owns it. You had NOTHING to do with that choice. You were never consulted now were you?

Your WH has put his needs and selfish desire above you and your M. He has allowed his weaknesses to run rampant and he has felt entitled to do it. This is all about him!


This is a good explanation of the REAL reason people have A's. It's was explained by a smart poster named SMB. Just substitute OM (other man) for OW.


And that's it.

Once you've got that you can move on it. First step is to bust up the A. You don't do it by yelling and screaming and threatening. You do it by plan A. You expose the A to people who have influence over your WH. You expose to the family of the OW (is she M?). You tell these people in a calm way that you are trying to save your M and you need their support. That's it. You don't want to come off as a crazy person. And in the meantime you start improving whatever contributions YOU made to the environment in your M. Stop the LBs and start to meet whatever ENs you can SINCERELY meet at this time. That can be VERY difficult right now due to your emotional turmoil and that's normal. Your goal is to end the A and to establish NC(no contact) FOREVER. That is something you MUST have your WH agree upon before you can begin R. An NC letter should be written to OW by him and sent by you to confirm it has been mailed. Once that is done R can earnestly begin. But until it does you have a battle on your hands and we can help.

Your WH will LIE to your face and swear on the bible about his doings. He is NOT TO BE BELIEVED AT THIS TIME. WS lie. That is just what they do and yours has been doing it for quite some time. He has to earn your trust and he has to EARN your forgiveness. DO NOT let the consequences of his behaviors pass him by. He can learn from them.

Keep posting and read read read.

And don't forget to breathe....

Also, don't tell your WH about MB. This is your safe place. You might ask the mods (by clicking on the notify button) to move your thread to GQII where there is a lot more traffic.

Thank you everyone for your comments and advice! I did spend 2-3 hours through the night after I found this site and I read as much as I can. It really helped me alot to slow down and breathe and to know that saving my marriage is my priority.

Lots of you centered on the respect thing. We have a son who has been a handful for the last 3 yrs he is now 20. We never really had any disagreements over parenting until he got to 17. I did loose respect for his parenting choices because he was very lax and chalked alot up to he is just a normal teenage guy. And I do interrupt him and I am working on listening and not interrupting.

Here is my today update:
I do not have cancer!!!! They were able to do 3 needle aspirations!!!
When I got in the shower this morning he was in bed and could hear me in the shower. I just lost it and was crying and praying that my night had just been a bad dream. I spent 20 min trying to get a handle on myself and then when I got out he was already up and in the den with his coffee. Sooooo then he says come sit here and patted the couch. I sat next to him and he said---We will get through this together and we will work on our M and we will go to a MC. I asked and will you stop seeing her? He said yes. This is what I wanted so badly to hear last night. He was very humble and loving. He held be for over 20 min and I had soooooo many questions I wanted to ask but I did not I held him in silence. We got ready and went to the dr. appt and he opened my door--- have not had that in a long time and then he reached for my hand and held it tight the entire walk into the office. They had this jar on the counter and it was filled with pieces of paper with verses or sayings and they called it the blessings jar. I grabbed 2 1 for him and 1 for me. I sat down and teared up as I read mine it said--- Give God your brokeness. Wow God is so good to show me that I can give him all of my brokeness!! I am broken. He kissed me as I was called back. He works from home so he has been here all day in his office. I fixed us lunch and then I had to get out and I met my good friend-- who I confided back in Oct that I thought he might be seeing someone. We met at a park around the corner and I told him I had to go to walgreens. I told her everything and she was a great support to me and we prayed and she asked if she could share with her husband and I said yes. So after I got back I asked him if he wanted to take the dogs for a walk with me and he said yes--- this is something I have tried for a year to get him to do with me and he never would. I wanted to talk but I waited for him to say anything and of course he just talked about work stuff and weather-- it was windy and cold 35. It took about an hour and then we came home and we did not bring any of this up. I want to tell him that I met with her and told her and her dh about his A. Help me to know how to talk about this tonight????

I slept some this afternoon and he is still working in his office. I do not know who she is or anything. I want to know if it is better to charge in and get all of my answers now or to wait til we go for MC. I want to do this right and we are closer today than we have been in a long time. He is I think relieved he told the truth. I am a detail person and I want to know everything but I also want to be in counseling before so that I do not make him retreat and go back to this other person--- liar, cheater, double life person. This morning I saw him for the man that I feel in love with 27 years ago!

Sorry this is sooo long winded but today was such an about face and heartfelt day and I want to build this.

Nest question----our dd just got married in Aug and she lives out of state. She is interviewing and her and her dh are trying to decide their future plans in the next 2 weeks. They are both in a masters program. My question is do we have to tell her now since she is sooo stressed for the next couple of weeks?? Should he be the one to tell her? They are really close and she adores him and I am worried how she is going to react. Also last night our son was upstairs as all of this went down and I think he heard? Should my WS be the one to tell him or should we both? He had an upset stomach and I went up after we had our talk downstairs and when I went up to check on him he said he was sorry that he was such a problem and that he felt he was why we were having problems. I cried and he cried and I told him that he was not our problem. Wow do I never want to drag these kids into all of this. I know he lives here and he knows more than I think.

Thank you again for your advice.

Exposure is a tool recommended here to end As. As your WH has decided to the end the A, it might not be called for here. However, please bear in mind that WS's lie, and you need to keep an eye on your WH to see if he's actually keeping to his word.

Disclaimer: I am not a psychic.

With that being said I see some problems and future difficulties arising from what you have told us so far.


This is a must. There is no ASKING him. There is saying to him that to R your M he must end C FOREVER and to agree to send an NC letter stating so.

Do you actually think that he will be able to drop this OW so quickly. I am sure he has made promises to her so she would stick around. This will not be so cut and dry. Be aware.


No charging, just stating that you will need to know what happened. He should answer ALL of your questions. Just make it safe for him to do so. Don't freak out. Expect the worst. Then thank him for his honesty and come and vent here. Previously you said that he was answering questions but then he stopped because YOU were getting upset. He does not get to choose what he answers and he does not get to judge your capacity to listen. Only you get to decide what you need to know.

It's great to go to MC, but don't go to just any ole MC. Most don't have a clue about infidelity. Go to the experts, the Harleys. They do phone counselling. They will also be able to see through your WH if he is lying.

Whatever you do, do not settle and just allow this A to be swept under the rug. Behavior that is not questionned can happen again. You and your WH have to dissect the whys and hows and he has to accept the fact that he and only he is to blame for this A. You are going to have to set the bar high.

Thank you both for you sound advice.

I feel like I am loosing my mind. I can not sleep. My insides are just rushing and my legs just twitch. Since DDay on 2-2-09 at night, I have only had maybe 4-5 hours of sleep in 2 nights. I feel like I should go see my doctor and maybe get put on an anti-anxiety med so I can try to avoid going into a deep depression. I feel like for the last 2 years that I have not been myself and I have been so alone and already in a state of depression. Although I now feel the urgency to get myself together. With plan A I see how important it is for me to be my best in order to give him my best. I have not handles the stress of a wayward son very well at all. I had become so placid or like a couch slug.

You are so right in me making him feel save enough to tell me everything. I do have a problem of reacting quickly and showing my upset. He is slow and steady and always feels like I judge him. So last night He told me that she does not live here and that she does not work with him. They met 2 ys ago while he was in her city 2 hours away while he was holding interviews for his company--- no he did not interview her she worked at the hotel he stayed at for the week. He also told me that he has had no contact in the last 2 days with her because he does not want to have to tell her. This is a huge week-- M-d-day T- my cancer scare W-work with his people to calm their fears Th-he will find out if he has a job his company is cutting 20% of its workforce F-MC

Thank you for telling me about the phone help.

kk26, he must tell you who she is and where she lives and if she is married. You need all this information about her. In order to recover, you need to know everything about the affair. EVERYTHING. This is information about your life to which you are entitled. He cant have secrets with the OW to which you are not privy.

Additionally, if he is sincere, he should be willing to send her a no contact letter and agree to no contact for life. I hate to tell you this, but I doubt he is done with his affair. He will likely balk at sending the letter and giving you all this information. Even so, you should ask him to send the letter to the OW and it should be mailed together.

How can he assure you that contact is really over? Will he open up his life to you so that he is so transparent that it would be impossible to carry on a secret second life?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html


My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

Requirements for Recovery from an Affair here

The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the betrayed spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts http://marriagebuilders.com/ca/to.cgi?l=qa080103bc
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be
your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place.

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.

Thank you for all of your advice. I actually had to get myself together and go to work today and I made it thru it. This week has been so rough and my coworkers think I am a wreck over the cancer scare and today my husband found out if he had a job. His company gut 20% of its workforce and let them know today. He has a job. God is good all the time. No cancer, still have a job, and I am still breathing and taking one step and then another. I will get thru this.

So yesterday was a big day. Lots of info and help. He told me she lives 2 hrs away and he met her when he was out of town for work but she does not work with him. he called her today and told her it was over. We have our first MC session tomorrow. I want to let him give us direction on how to proceed. With all of his job stuff and our children asking us what is going on and guessing that he is having an affair it was too muxh for me when our daughter cried and begged me to tell her . I told her and I wanted him to be the one to tell them since he is the one who did this to all of us. she is shattered just like I was. She wanted to come home this weekend just to be with me. I told her no that we needed to work things out before she came home. Our son is here and he feels like he is the cause for our problems and now my husband needs to tell him. It just keeps getting worse before it gets better and I am exhausted.

I got a book yesterday and we are both reading it--- after the affair

Thank you for you advice and concern.

kk, it is probably best that you tell the kids so they get the true story, not a spun story. They know something is wrong and are rightfully upset about it. They need the truth and they need your moral guidance. And they need an explanation from their father.


This could all be a lie designed to protect her and his affair, so I would suggest verifying every word he utters.

Did your H also give you the name, address, phone #, occupation, and marital status of the OW? This is all information that you have a right to know. You need to know everything about the FOX so she doesn't get in the hen house again. Also, if she is married, you would want to give her H a call.

I am sorry to hear your H has spoken to the OW again, kk. That is not a good idea.