Krazy, Please read this whole post.

I have read a great many of your posts. I was wondering how you were doing with you anger. Can't even wrap my mind around what you would have felt. How angry you were/are. I obviously could not cope with what you have had to go through. I know your hate for the OM. But your wife is what intrigues me. You must love her with everything you have. But the other side of that coin must be hating her with a passion. Hate is not the opposite of love. Apathy is. and you do not sound apathetic in the least. So how does your hate and your love walk hand in hand. I think that one of the reasons for your anger is that your wife cannot understand just how hurt you have been. How could she. I believe your wife needs a word picture in the strongest terms. If I may make a suggestion. That may well finally remove your anger. You need to call an escort service. You need to find the most beautiful woman there. Go home and set up a video recorder. So that the whole situation can be taped from beginning. Arrange to babysit your daughter for the day. After your wife goes out. Have someone take care of your daughter. Call the escort service and let the drama begin. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU DEBASING YOURSELF LIKE YOUR WIFE DEBASED HERSELF. Start taping before the escort comes. When she gets there have her strip completely naked. Give her a towel to cover herself. The camera is rolling so nothing is being missed. You disrobe in another room. Wait till your wife comes home. When you here the door open. The escort loses the towel, and lies on the couch. You keep yours on. Your wife walks in on you and her. BOOM. Instant understanding and identification. The escort grabs her close and leaves. Your wife goes completely ballistic. You let her scream and yell and cry for maybe five minutes. When you feel she has grasped the whole concept of what she did. You simply go over to the camera and hit the play button. She sees that you had absolutely zero contact with the woman. She now understands for five minutes what you live every day of your life. You look like you have tried everything else. Think about it. Call it an object lesson.

That's quite an idea.

It would certainly be quite a shock to her, since she really doesn't know just how angry I still am. She thinks when I'm having a "bad day", I'm mostly depressed. Sometimes that's true, but more often than not I'm angry. I just don't want to show it day after day.

Yeah, I love her with everything I've got, but I've had to make a conscious effort to avoid apathy...just throwing up my hands and walking out. Much of that has to do with the kids, too.

She's already quite paranoid about me having a revenge affair. When I come home a little late from work, etc. she grills me about what I was doing, etc.

I kinda like it. I like her having to wonder "Would he?" "Is he?". I tell her repeatedly that I'll do whatever I need to in order to alleviate her fears, including bringing her up to my office and letting her go through my work computer.

But yes, it's nice to watch her fret, and suffer 1% of the paranoia that I've had to deal with for 2.5 years.

Thank you for taking an interest in some of my posts. Many of them are pretty ugly, and I feel bad about using this forum to vent so often. People here probably think I'm a psycho.

WTF?

Krazy you are not a psycho. However, if you listen to this retarded advice and invite some whore into your home where your children sleep you'd be an idiot.

It was an amusing idea, but I wouldn't actually go through with it with a real hooker.

A friend or something, though.....

lol well it could be amusing. Just add it to the list of all the dark thoughts that pop into a BS's head.

i would be afraid i would actually do the escort, catch a disease, have it on camera, and ruin any progress made toward recovering. although it is an amusing idea!

Wow! Retarded advice? It was a thought. It started a discussion on how to help krazy deal. He still has anger because he feels his wife doesn't understand the pain he is in. I just opened the discussion.

There are other ways. I am all about solving the issue. To help marriages.

OK. Forget the escort (she could have been a nude model, didn't have to be a whore).

Next idea. Still same scenario. Same hidden camera set up. This time instead of having an escort there, he arranges the excort to be outside his house or apartment. He shown her a picture of his wife. She wets down her hair like she has just gotten out of the shower (you know all combed back). He tells her when the wife pulls up to the house or apartment. Make sure she is seen getting into her car or walking out of the lobby. She needs to really look nice. Short skirt everything. Krazy has already done the monologue for the camera explaining why he is doing this. He sprays perfume in the living room so that there is no way the wife could not smell it when she comes in. He is in a bath towel with his hair wet. When she comes in he has a surprised look on his face. Then come the fireworks. Again he lets her rage for 5 or ten minutes. Then tells her that nothing happened. Show the video to her which explains everything. If krazy would like I could even help him with the monologue. I am pretty good at that kind of stuff (29 years of practice). Again I toss this out there to help krazy get over his anger and his wife to understand the deep pain he still going through.

Yes retarded. I understand wanting to help Krazy get past his anger but advicing him to bring low lives into his home isn't the answer. If his W doesn't understand his pain, that's probably because most waywards can't grasp the depth of their betrayal...EVER. They might think they understand or they can empathize to a degree but I doubt they truly comprehend it.

Even if Krazy did entertain your advice would his W then grasp the level of his pain and anger? I still doubt it because she can never be totally blindsided like Krazy was.

:twobyfour:

Black raven. I can see that you are all about living in the pain. You have become real comfortable there. Its become an old friend. Your focus seems to be "how can I hold on to this". My advice to Krazy is how to get beyond it. Right now all he is hearing from you is "NO! Don't work through the pain. Embrace it. Feed on it. Let it consume you". You focus on "bringing low lifes in to his marriage" He could pay for a frigging actress to do this. Its not about the tools he uses to accomplish his healing. You say:

"If his W doesn't understand his pain, that's probably because most waywards can't grasp the depth of their betrayal...EVER"

Getting her to understand is part of it. But it is also krazy "feeling" that she understands it. Maybe in ways that he has not been able to explain. Then there is the other benefit. His wife lives in constant fear of him cheating in revenge. This would make her face that fear. And deal with it. I believe that this could bring them to a deeper level of reconciliation then they have yet experienced.

Maybe he wants to get over this Black raven. Did you think of that? Maybe he wants to forgive. Maybe he doesn't want this to consume the next 40 years of their marriage. I believe that this will be a cathartic experience for them. I see a lot of tears on both side.

But let me ask you this BR. How are you trying to help him?

You'd have to ask Krazy if I have ever said anything directly to him or indirectly that was of help to him. I have tried to help Krazy and other BSs as well; even a repentant WS on occassion too. :MrEEk: If my advice doesn't help someone then ignore and if it does I'm glad I could help them in some small way. I understand Krazy pretty well. We aren't that different in most ways. :MrEEk:

LOL, if you see that I'm all about living in the pain then you are blind as a bat. Pain is destructive to a BS and I hope one day Krazy can get past it with or without his W.

oth,

I don't think I would advocate your approach, but it is refreshing to read and consider new options.

However, as a word of caution, I think you will find that MB doesn't deal well with "outside of the box" type thinking. Strong, aggressive tactics ... although effective ... are frowned upon here.

Thanks for the diversion ... as I'm a fan of "independent thought".

I am relatively new to this site. Maybe MB does frown on it. I guess that's why they disabled the private message function.

RE: black raven.

I apologize if I got the wrong idea about you and pain. But when I read this:

"Yes retarded. I understand wanting to help Krazy get past his anger but advicing him to bring low lives into his home isn't the answer. If his W doesn't understand his pain, that's probably because most waywards can't grasp the depth of their betrayal...EVER. They might think they understand or they can empathize to a degree but I doubt they truly comprehend it.

Even if Krazy did entertain your advice would his W then grasp the level of his pain and anger? I still doubt it because she can never be totally blindsided like Krazy was."

Your comments sure seemed to be fatalistic to me. First you start of with a "Judgement" on my idea (so your mind was already made up or "closed"). My idea was not to bring low lifes but a different perspective on a way to work through this. You used words like EVER and NEVER and I DOUBT IT. I think if you go into a situation with these "emphatic statements", you limit new directions of thought and maybe even hope for change. The other "feeling" I take from your comment is "anger". So do you see why I might have made the "judgment" that you were into the pain? This is what I read:

Regimented thought, decision made before adequate investigation or clarification, emphatic negative statements, and obvious anger.

If I in any way misunderstood your meaning, I am sorry. I just commented based upon what I read.

My Revelation:


I guess seeing how long krazy has struggled with this anger issue. And the fact that he mentioned his insurance would not cover anymore counseling sessions. I felt that he may entertain some type of "outside the box" ideas. I guess this forum is a little more controlling then others I am on.

oth,

Yes, it is ... but don't worry about Krazy too much ... he's one of the more "sane" regular posters here.

He definately has anger issues (Me, TOO!!!), but he uses this place to vent ... so his home life isn't as toxic as one might think. MB is his "release valve" so he doesn't take out his frustrations on his FWW and family.

My guess is that Krazy enjoyed your plot as much as I did.

BTW, I don't think I've read your story ... what brought you to this awful place that all of us wish we had never had to find?

Based off of one or two posts? No.

I am angry, not 24/7, like you think or at the world, but I am. And I have pain, not crippling, but it's there.

Fatalistic? LOL okay. :RollieEyes: I'll have to go re-read my own posts were I have ever advocated a BS to just throw up their hands because it's their lot in life to be a doormat or miserable because it's pre-ordained.

No worries though. My skin is thick. Happy posting.

Married 29 years no infidelity. I post because we have become empty nesters, and the two most dangerous times in a marriage is 7 to 10 years in and then Empty nest time. I was thinking we were growing apart and so looked into infidelity sites to read the stories as a proactive way of avoiding what I have been reading. My mom was a WW and divorced my dad when I was 5. So I can identify with the children of the posters here. We really have a strong marriage and love each other dearly. But forewarned is forearmed. I also think that there may be a place on these boards for the opinion of someone with a strong marriage. I was mentored by a man who was married for over 60 years. My belief is:

We all have an investment in each others marriages.

Nice to meet you, oth.

Try to hard. I read your story. I am so sorry to hear what happened. I cannot believe the courage of you BSs. To be gaslighted and lied to for so long. To be told you are trying "to control me" when in fact they are the ones who are controlling you by taking your love for granted and making you wait around until they are ready to stop cheating. How are you doing? I'll bet your wife, like krazys is petrified that you are going to have a revenge affair. That was the whole idea behind my suggestion to krazy. The cheating spouses have no idea what they have done to their loved ones. Sure they are guilty. But they don't understand the abject sorrow of their husbands or wives. That's why I suggested it. What recourse does the BS have. Suck it up, or divorce. I think there is another way. An object lesson. Here are my reasons. First I think the cheating spouse spend their time in fear of a revenge affair. Second, I think the BS does not believe the cheater knows the pain they have caused. Both of these bring resentment. And hurts intimacy. If the betrayed spouse had a way of showing the cheater exactly how it felt to be on the other side of the equation. He could say (without having cheated), now you know what I go through every day. And they could also convey to their spouse,"that is why I could never do that to you, because I love you". On the other side the cheater, after going through this could then say "Ah Ha, now I realize what you must have felt. And how much I love you for not leaving me. And now I understand why you wouldn't do this to me for real because it is a horrible betrayal. Thank you for forgiving me." Is it drastic. Absolutely. But I think it can be cathartic. I just think it is another way instead of "suck it up" or "divorce"

krazy needs to stay out of the movie business.

I sincerely think it is a good idea. It might be expensive. But, WS's really never do get it, the level of pain felt by a BS. And, the scenario suggested by oth would still fall short of what a BS expieriences as it does not involve months and months of gaslighting or years of post A pain. It is a mere glimpse of what a BS goes through. But , it really would be nice if a WS could, at least momentarily, feel a smal percentage of the pain in order to have some idea of what the BS has gone through.