I know this was probably posted before whereas I am sure someone asked themselves the same question..but..when do you know that it's time to stop working on the marriage, that the marriage is not going to work? It's been 2 years of no sex, affection or intimacy and 1 month ago, I found out about my husband's emotional affair, which ended. Since then, he said he would work on the marriage, but I really don't see too much of anything improving. I still exist faithfully in this marriage and sexless. I don't know where to go from here. Do I give it time? If so, how much more time? I'm I just hanging on to something that will probably never change? We are going to therapy, but, like I said, things remain the same. The only thing that my husband has improved on is communication, a willingness to listen if something is bothering me. But, that's about it. Saturday was our anniversary - 5th and all I got was a card and a dinner. Dinner was nothing special because we have gone there many times, and we always go out to dinner. Maybe someone can shed some light on my question. How long do I hang on?When do I know it's over?

Katya,<BR>Have you explained your frustration to your spouse and therapist?<P>Only you know when it is time to give up.Just make sure.

Katya,<BR>Only you will know when enough is enough. Just remember, change takes time. You have only begun therapy, and you said you have seen some small changes. Try and be patient. Time will tell.

If the affair is just now ending, he probably is just now going through the really bad withdrawal. At least he says he wants to work on the marriage. If it were me, I'd give it some more time as long as you are sure the affair is over. Continue to be affectionate and ask just to cuddle. Maybe in time he will reciprocate.

I wish I knew, but I expect it has a lot to do with how you feel. If you feel like you have done everything possible. And you feel that you are ready to move on, then I guess it would be time. But if he is willing to listen then tell him how you feel. I know you have probably told him before, but really tell him tell him that you feel nothing has changed except for his willingness to listen, but you need more. Tell him exactly what it is you need and want. Be specific! And if he can't or unwilling to do anything about, then tell him how you feel about continuing your marriage. Then I would say the ball is in his court. What happens then would I think determine whether you stay or go. Hope this helps or at least gets you to thinking. Good luck and keep me posted.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Dear Convenant:<BR>No, I did not explain to my husband or therapist how I feel, but maybe I should, huh. Pondj, I know what you are saying but, it's so hard for me to know because I've been asking myself that question and this is why I decided to post. Janie, you said to give it time and still be affectionate. How much time is enough time? This is what I am saying? I know, like Pondj said, I'll know, but will I ever? What happens to some people who wait till they are married 20 years and then say, when is it time when they have been miserable for the last 19 years. I don't want to go another 17 years and keep asking that question. SDS, I thought things would have changed after his affair, but, it really hasn't, just a small change. I guess that's better than nothing. But, still, if it was me and I had the affair and told him I wanted to try, I would be trying my butt off and doing everything possible to make it work and surely I would be trying to make love to him. But, I just don't see it. Maybe you are all right and I should give it time. Time for what. He knows what I want and what I expect. So, what is the problem? I guess I am really frustrated and disguisted about this whole thing. Boy, I was sure wrong about the marriage thing. I believed in him and the marriage. I believe that you are there for each other and would never hurt each other. I don't believe just because you are married that everything has to stop. I just don't understand it. People get so relaxed and think that they don't have to work at it because it's marriage? Why does everything have to stop in terms of small gifts, small little thoughts, notes, cards, flowers, etc.. Those things are not so hard. I guess it's all in the game that is played to get the other person, marry them and then forget that they exist except when they come home and are hungry? Sorry, I guess I'm just blowing off steam and really feeling like this is hopeless. My children are really sick, I stayed home last night to be with them all night putting compresses on my little girls head and rubbing her back, giving her water. She was up all night. He was sleeping like a baby. He gets up for work, gets dressed, and doesn't even help with the dishes. Instead, he leaves them for me to do when I am already exhasted. This is the crap that he does. Even though I have told him endlessly and then tried not saying anything about it, nothing helps. Sorry, I guess I better end it here in terms of writing because now I am just going off on a tangent. Thank you for responding.

Katya,<BR>Are you plan A'ing? and if so for how long have you been making love desposits?<P>Not having sex for two years is an awful long time. I certainly would be tempted to draw a line if I were in your shoes. Your marriage partner is the one who is supposed to meet those needs for you and you for him, and if it has been this long without that kind of intimacy, what are you holding on to?<BR>Is there a big problem with communication, verbal that is? Do you both have trouble being open and honest? Some of what you said in your post made me think that might be true. And if you feel you withhold your honest, feelings and thought in fear that he would not respond in the way you expect, why worry about it. You are not getting what you want by NOT Sharing your feeling either! Tell him you want sex. There it is. Just say it and let it be clear that you expect affection or why bother at all!<P>Did you ever get the "Ten Second Kiss" or "Light His Fire" by Ellen Friedman. <P>If things don't pick up soon, ask yourself if you have plan A'd all you possibly can, point that fact out to him, and then move on to Plan B. (At least I think that is what I would do) (Maybe) Shoot, Katya, I just feel real bad for your situation, and think it might be time for drastic measures. Jeez, two years!!! living together and no sex! Emotional affair or not, that is not normal!<P>Life is too short to waste time not getting affection and sexual release while you are still able. He is the one you vowed to have it with, yet.....<P>hmm<P>Hope I have not offended you, but don't know what else to say.<P>Keep us posted!<P>Good Luck!<P>Beth

Katya,<P>How much time is right? I struggle with this too. It is easy to tell someone how much time to keep trying... but none of us walk in the very same shoes. I sincerely believe you will know in your heart and mind when some progress seems better to you than no progress. Ending something we are devoted to should never be a quick step, for it is most likely a final step. I love my H and intended to do so for life. Now, do I change that? Something in me says 'no I don't change that' - but I also know I have an endurance level out there somewhere. I've seen it somewhere before and learned to live past it. My current situation is 'long down the road' and totally unexpected - but, I am putting my faith in God that I will know what to do and when to do it, if it comes to that.<BR>Oh how I wish I could 'reach' H's every where who have wives who love Hs seemingly no matter what. They do not know that the companionship they have given away to another is the thing their wives yearn for. I would like to have a long letter from H, or know H wants to be with me, or trust that H really wants the marriage to work 'with all of his heart'. Isn't this what women like us would like to have... for starts? You have a good head on your shoulders and a big heart... you will know where your endurance is also. With young children who are ill right now, you are in an overload... I pray that they get well soon, and your care taking can slow down to mock1... it will be then you can give more thought to "what now". Hold on, you are the only one who will know 'how long' and 'how much' is your limits. And yes, tell H that you have limits... and whatever else you need to say to help him understand you. Maybe one converstion I'm considering is "Do you want to understand me?" We can't force H's to understand, but perhaps if they really want to understand... it is worth the conversation. I'm not positive... but God is!

Dear Pilot's Wife:<BR>No, you did not offend me at all. As a matter a fact, your response made me feel good because that is the way that I feel...like, what am I nuts? What am I waiting for..But, then I look at my 2 little girls and then say, o.k., I guess that's why. But, if we did not have the two little ones, I would have been gone. I did draw the line and told him that something has to change and that if it didn't, I was filing. So far, little change, but it's there. I guess he's trying, but still no sex. There is a big problem with communication. Everytime I try to talk to him, he blows his top. He gets very defensive and accusitory. I always try to bring him back down and stop with getting defensive, but, it doesn't work. Then he gets me started into that whole thing also, then we end up fighting/arguing. I sit back and then get mad because I try. I try to talk and this is what happens. He can never just sit there and listen. I will sit and listen and then ask him if he is finished, he'll say yes. They I will say, I would like to talk is that o.k.? He'll say o.k., then I will start to talk and he'll get defensive and arugmentative. There is nothing worse than someone who can't sit there and listen to what is being said. As far as telling him I want sex. Yeah, what a kick in the a@#. I told him 3 weeks ago that I wanted to make love to him..that I wanted sex. Because we were in teh shower and started to get into some heavy kissing. Right when it should have not stopped. He stopped. He got out and got dressed. I stood there naked saying to myself, What the f@#$!??? So, I got out of the shower and asked him why did he just stop. He said, HE was not ready. I thought and said, You've got to be kidding me! It's been 2 years and your not ready?<BR>So, I did say it, yell it, ignored it, etc...and nothing. You are so very right, that life is too short to waste time not getting affection, sex.... I'm glad you wrote me. By all means, it was nice to hear from someone what they thought was exactly what I was thinking.

Dear Costly Hat:<BR>Again, you say that I will know when the time is right? Know, I really don't know. This is why I posted this question. I was just wondering about the members who left their spouses when they actually knew it was time to go. I have asked my husband does he want to understand me? He, of course stated yes. But does he? No, Will he ever? I doubt that somehow. I agree that if he really wanted to understand it's worth the conversation. But, I have had plenty of those, and it's like killing a dead horse. I don't have those questions inside of me that says, no, don't change that, or yes, change that. I simply just don't know. But very curious about the members that did leave their spouses, what got them to that point of no return?<BR>Thanks for your response though. I do agree with you and wish I could also write a letter to every husband/wife to wake up and see what they have that is so precious. I guess, whenever the time comes for me or other spouses to leave, the wake up call comes too late. So sad, that they just couldn't hear us crying and screaming for their love and attention.<BR>

Dear Katya - I didn't have an answer because I don't know.. but do believe one knows within ones own mind and heart. Odd you used that phrase "and its like killing a dead horse" - I told my H a few months ago, I can't/won't "beat a dead horse". Yes indeed, if H who has eyes for others would only know they are punching out the eyes of their spouses secretly, they would realize it is themselves they do the greatest damage to... but I guess they are real dreamers to think otherwise, or have no sense of 'right'. Cleave only to her ... does not say 'her and others that pop up.' No, I can't tell you when to leave - but will be praying you make the right decision. And yes, you are absolutely right about not being heard or listened to.

Dear costly Hat!:<BR>Yes, how true..to look at it your way., that the husbands are really doing the greatest damage to themselves. But are they? Some will leave their spouses and never bat an eye and never realize what damage they actually caused. How sad...

My W and I haven't had sex for three years. Why? I don't know. Over a year and a half ago she thought I was having an emotional affair with her friend so the likelihood of sex became even more remote. When I finally confronted her with the issue of making love, she got very hysterical and said if I wanted it I could take it. I told her I didn't want it for myself I wanted it for us. She says no way. "If you want it, take it, but don't expect me to enjoy it. So I don't want it that way and I don't "take" it. That's an offer I can and do refuse.<P>Seems to me that a lot of the W who have been betrayed in one way or another, can still desire and have sex with their spouses. How do you do that and what does a guy have to do to get his W to make love to him again?<P>Flip<BR><p>[This message has been edited by flipper (edited October 22, 1999).]