My xWW still maintains a friendship in my (our old) neighborhood. This neighbor is one of her "true friends" in her words--meaning that she was able to coapt this woman to her side during our separation and divorce...with the usual fog-laden blend of deceit, half-truths, and scapegoating of me/our marriage to justify her affair, none of which she has ever come even remotely close to acknowledging much less taking responsibility for to me.

xWW was here visiting as I was exiting my car after coming home from work. She slowed her drive by my (our old) house to watch me walking around in the garage--I didn't even look her way but knew it was her by the car that was being driven and had caught an earlier glimpse...

She filed for and completed the (unwanted on my part) divorce about 1 1/2 years ago. It still hurts! Especially knowing that she remains too stubborn to truly face what she did to me. She refused to talk back then and nothing seems to ever change in her ongoing insensitivity to the trail of wreckage she left behind in her wake with family, friends, OM's family (also married), and ME. I still hurt just by seeing her...

I know exactly how you feel. It boggles my mind that someone could do this and not feel badly about it.
I've sort of come to peace with the fact that I will never get an apology or any type of expression of remorse.

I think what makes this so difficult is that it seems so foreign to me. I think we tend to think that our ex-spouse are like us, have consciences. Apparently, some folks can do this crap and walk away without a care.

I try to be thankful that i am not like that and that i am away from someone so toxic.

You just need o try to let go of any expectation that you will get an apology. Folks like this leave a trail of devestation. They are very messed up.

Zelmo,

Thanks for your reply.

What particularly boggles my mind is how drastically she has changed over the last few years. Someone who for many years was devoted, kind, supportive, caring, and upright became cold, hard-hearted, obstinate, unforgiving, and depraved in her lack of empathy towards many people who loved her so dearly and to others (on OM's side) that she DIDN't EVEN KNOW beforehand.

Her father and brother treated others (and HER) like that before and she quite correctly despised their conduct. She has OUTDONE even them and doesn't seem to recognize it. Many folks wonder why she is now so loyal and forgiving towards a POSOM who has betrayed 3 ex-wives and financially/emotionally abandoned 2 of his children...he is a father "in name only" to the 3rd.

It so confusing and hard to accept--she was so wonderful...

There is such a vast difference between the W I knew and the WW I later "met"... The irony is, the family, friends, and husband she discarded loved her more than her own family and were her biggest fans.....they all were willing to forgive her had she displayed the courage to do what was right

I can assure you they know what they've done. They are using SOMETHING(alchohol, religion, pharmaceuticals) to block it out. My exWW was a LITTLE remorseful, but I went for the jugular. I had a retaliation A and then told EVERYONE what she had done. Of course, a lot of people thought a lot of her so she fell from grace like a rock. I then filed for D. I suspect you just need to know that not all WW get away w/out taking in the shorts. I fired every bullet I had and broke her!

I feel your pain. I recently was reminded of my wife's affair. That was 14 yrs. ago. I also realized that time heals nothing but with the passing of time it will hurt less and less. Good luck.

Mine got off scott free and got everything.

She won.

Thanks to everyone for your responses.

I have no desire for "retaliation". I never wanted her and I to be adversaries...I told her that many times. I wanted reconciliation and renewal--the "nicer" I was, the more defensive, stubborn, and belligerent she became. I reached my hand out to her in mutual conciliation, forgiveness, tenderness, and honesty dozens and dozens of times--in each case, she slapped it away with spite, scorn, deceit, and vengefulness. She would have choked her own mother (or anyone else) who might have stood in the way of her affair (which I didn't find out about till much later...kinda all makes sense now). She actually did screech at her father and my mother hanging up the phone when either of them dared suggest that maybe should direct some emotional energy and attention toward HER MARRIAGE.

I guess my problem is that I still love and always will love the "her" I REMEMBER (before the whole affair and marital crisis turned her into someone I could barely recognize). I have read much on this topic, here and elsewhere, and understand the bizarre wayward mindset on an academic and intellectual level. But, I confess that I still struggle with its personal application in my/her sense. It truly feels like an alien virus took over the physical body of the girl I adored so deeply and changed her in ways that are almost impossible to fully comprehend. I get it when people talk about their adulterous wife/husband being "abducted by aliens"...

Her father has this dual nature without an affair being involved. He could be a generous, loving, Christian man when he wanted to be; he could also be manipulative, unforgiving of offense, and the ultimate grudge-holder as well--he ended up throwing away his relationship with his daughter (my XWW's older half-sister) and his grandson by hanging on to some silly grudge for 10+ years out of misplaced pride and unforgiveness. It is/was all so silly! My W and I used to discuss how idiotic it was to be unforgiving and hard-headed to people who were truly open to reconciliation--WHY DO PEOPLE DO THIS CRAP? She hated him for doing it and know she has done it herself...

She confessed regret to me "for being so hardheaded...I should have listened to you" last summer on the phone. Despite that, she has done nothing...

"Feeling bad about it" is not enough. I'm sure she secretly feels "bad" but that seems awfully phony and self-serving when you don't express it and REPENT of it. Sort of like apologizing for robbing someone but refusing to return the money you stole...

Good analogy. Just comfort yourself with the crazy idea i had that shes really stalking you when she drops by to see her neighbor.

The best revenge is living well.

Just fake it if you have to.

Your wife's transformation is very confusing. Unlike your Ww, minw as pretty much an a-hole form early on. This is very common with the personality disordered after one is ensnared by marriage, kids etc.
SD, if your wife is like this now, have you considered tha possibility that her pre-A persona was a facade? I cannot imagine someone that was genuinely as nice as you seem to think she was transforming like this.

It helped me make sense of my XWW's transformation early in the marriage to research her history before I knew her. Turns out she had been truly messed up with stints as an OW multiple times and had engaged in a lot of really bad behavior. It was amazing and enlightening.

Zelmo,

Well-intentioned friends have asked me this ("did you REALLY know her before?", etc.) I can honestly say that I DID know her before. We were married for ~11 yrs and were together exclusively for 2 more before that. She is truly a wonderful person (when she wants to be) and I adored her for it.

I am not going to deny that I made mistakes in the M--I did. I grew complacent and took for granted what we had in each other. Silly LBs, unknowingly not meeting the most important ENs, you all sadly know the drill... Believe me, I did EVERYTHING a man could do to make amends and demonstrate that I understood. I apologized profusely for my errors (which, of course, were never intended to hurt her) in so many ways and in front of so many people (friends, counselor, families on both sides). SHE KNOWS ALL THIS AND KNEW IT BACK THEN, but could not bring herself to "give herself back" to us. Last summer she admitted to me on the phone: "You never need to apologize again--you apologized too much and I was hardheaded and should have listened..."

Problem is, I never received anything approaching reciprocation from her. I was quite willing to meet forgiveness with forgiveness, and reconciliation with reconciliation...she simply wouldn't do it. I did not understand at the time why she seemd so determined to throw away everything we had and built together. I am an intensely loyal person and never even thought about another woman literally from our 1st date--sounds corny, I know...

I have learned some things about her and have come to some revelations. She was molested as a child by a male relative and her parents didn't take her seriously. She never got "closure" or an apology/admission from the perpetrator. Playing armchair psychologist here, I suspect the entire episode left her suspicious of expressing her hurts and discontents later on. She never really told me what was bothering her about us even when I asked and begged to hear. By her own admission since, she does put on a facade of contentment rather than express her innermost feelings in a healthy way--I was fooled into believing "everything is fine, she is just stressed out at work and needs some time..." She has also admitted that unforgiveness and stubborness are chracter flaws she struggles with--again, largely out-of-view. Unfortunately, some poor examples of this plague her family and she has (unknowingly, I suspect) fallen into that same pattern.

I also know from my research that AFFAIRS CHANGE PEOPLE. Waywards become cold, distant, and belligerent towards their spouses as a defense mechanism. They devote all their emotional energy toward their new love interest and little toward their marriage, usually convincing themselves that "the marriage was over" and "they can'r get their feelings back" for their spouse. I did not know (and naively believed she would never do that) about her affair during this "crisis" time in our marriage. I recognize now, that she dropped some hints about "needing my forgiveness too" and "not always being the best wife to you" but would go no further. When I asked to talk more deeply, she simply wouldn't.

Maybe she felt too guilty and ashamed to tell me, maybe she thought I would never forgive her anyway, maybe she thought "she had to follow her heart"...maybe a combination of all of these. I know she was fence-sitting during this time and told me pointedly "It is all about me right now!" She even said "You be a mind-reader now, you figure it out!" when I begged her to tell me more. She also said "I'm struggling right now!" but wouldn't elaborate--it was all like I had no right or interest in knowing anything. Later, I found out she was taking her OM to church with her and crying the entire time as she tried to reconcile what she was doing with her Christian upbringing. ICK! I didn't find out about her "just a friend" OM until she filed and didn't find out about how far back it went until well after the divorce, which of course was entirely her choice and doing.

I wish she would have told me...at least so I could have had some closure earlier. I just think she didn't want to risk losing the OM and being exposed. The most insane thing she said to me last summer was "I was so terrified you were going to leave me!" That one killed me!!! That would have NEVER happenned... Crazy, huh?

Hi SDCW,

I'm not quite sure what to pray for.

I pray for resolution in your own heart. Maybe that she does get it in her life. Do your want her marriage to break up too?

If she was a Christian person maybe that marriage - is illegal.

Come close to God, give him your concerns. Growth is required from this lesson. And no, I do not know what we have to learn!

Sexual abuse victims are very damaged , SD. It is not something they asked for.

Neverthless, it sounds like you did all you could. She just never gave you a chance as she is such a poor communicator.

No one is perfect in a marriage. I'm sure she had some major deficiencies in meeting all your needs as well. Yet, you adhered to your vows.

She may be a wondeful person, but she sounds very broken, as well. And, it was her responsibility to get help. Instead, she cheated and that is just not right, ever.

Unless she makes a real commitment to getting help, you are much better off out of that dysfunctional relationship. You just cannot get close to someone tha has those types of walls up.

Huh? In what way? From what I see, SHE is the one living in h&ll, you are the one who took the high road and can look yourself in the mirror every day. IMO, that trumps everything.

Besides, one of these days, you're going to sell your story to Hollywood and get rich.

This is so true. It bothers me sometimes how people (not you, more like society) minimize what childhood SA does to a person. I know people who had nothing worse than a relative touching them - once - and doing nothing more than that, no intercourse or anything, and yet the victim will spend the rest of their life destroying themself and everything around them because they can't get the erroneous guilt out of their heads.

It's insidious, what it does.

This, my friend, is an unfortunate thing which has scarred her for life and will forever cloud her way of viewing life until she gets help for it.

She developed coping and survival techniques for dealing with the molestation and her cloudy thinking falls in line with what I've learned about female victims of childhood sexual abuse.

It's a horrible thing for a child to experience and it scars a child for life. Do the research. Women who go through this as children (and the number of women who do is very scary) have trouble with normal relationships later in life (a generalization, but the statistics back up the statement).

Do research on the subject and you'll see for yourself.

This unfortunate fact explains a great deal about your xw's behavior.

I know it's hard to let go of something you thought was wonderful, but keep in mind that was YOUR perception of things and obviously not hers.

What is normal to you is not normal to a person with psychological problems.

My therapist told me that there are women who are attracted to "bad boys" who are often bad husbands and abusive. The abuse adds an element of excitement to the relationship and the sex life, from what she told me, is often incredible.

So a normal guy, in comparison, will not appeal to a woman who wants bad boys. Normal guys appear boring. She has had to actually teach some of these women to learn to value different qualities so they can like normal men.

Your XW needs an IC and years of therapy before she can have a normal relationship.

Expect the one with the OM to eventually break down.

For you? Move on. The day will come when she can drive down the street a million times and it will be like Jane Doe driving down the street. Seeing her will feel the same as getting junk mail. You won't think anything of it as you throw it away.

There's good women out there, my friend. Once you see how good they are you'll quickly forget the WW.

So go out and date. Date many women. Don't sleep with them. Just date and see for yourself and have fun and keep things light.

CSA effects people in many ways. I know, my FIL molested his daughter, my wife.

If she does not seek help, she will likely never heal.

It may not be a bad idea for you to see an IC and get a better grasp on the whole thing.

Thank you all for your insights...you are really helping me! These boards sometimes act like an online "personal journal" for me and I do appreciate the perspectives you have all added.

For so long, I beat myself to death over the mistakes (real and exaggerated) I made. You know--"if only I had showed her more attention" or had "done this" or "not done that"...etc, etc. I know that I have to accept that likely I will never "get an answer from her" to so many questions that have flown through my head over the last couple of years.

My xWW did get some IC a number of years back regarding the past and "made one last effort" to reach out to her older brother (the SA perp from 25 yrs. ago). Her efforts were dismissed and she never received even an admission much less true remorse in return. I didn't find out the full details of it until much later during our "crisis". I am not one who generally subscribes to the cop-out of someone "having a bad childhood" or "being the victim of poor parenting" as an excuse or explanantion for every unwise thing they do as an adult, but in this case I can definitely see patterns.

xWW had a period of rebellion (overbearing and controlling father for sure) during her first half of college. Every kid revels in their new-found freedom a bit when they first move away and over-indulges somewhat. She had a lot of parties and a hefty number of boyfriends/lovers before pulling herself out of that and cleaning up her act. We met about a year later and I think I was by far the best guy to come in to her life. I loved her for HER--well before we became physically intimate and made that clear. Our MC later told me privately that she had revealed to him "she has always been flattered that someone like you was interested in her and never felt worthy of you...she found herself intimidated of you..." I NEVER knew that either.

I can see now how she "splits" people into "good" and "bad" camps in certain situations and shows the "Dr. Jekyll" side to one and the "Mr. Hyde" side to another. My neighbors are now in the "good camp" and to them she displays the "good-girl, victim, never-did-anything-wrong-to-anyone" personna. OM's xW, son, and of course ME are now in the "bad camp" and we have seen quite the opposite--believe me, the examples of her deceit, insensitivity, emotional cruelty, and stubborn depravity have been on full display.

Thank you all for helping me see how and why the unthinkable to me became possible...

xWW is also definitely a "romantic" person (from Private Lies by Dr. Frank Pittman) -- someone who places powerful reliance and validity on "feelings" above all else. Such people are easily swept away during periods of turmoil in their personal lives are are VERY vulnerable to "falling in love" with people who are very bad for them and know how to recognize and manipulate someone "needy" by saying & doing "all the right things".

I think she was desperate to feel good about herself and to feel "valueable and worthy" and was easy pickin's for her OM -- he is basically a smooth talker, habitual betrayer, and relationship social-climber. I know the main reason he married her was for her money as their "engagement" came about during the affair shortly after OM was rejected in his secret efforts to go back to his BW#3 who found out and was D'ing him.

If xWW had no money, he would have used her and dumped her when he was done. They have NOTHING to build a real relationship on--She is nothing but a Bank Account w/ Boobs to him--she doesn't know it yet and probably won't fully "get it" for years...

I know you feel she was wondeful, SD. But,I urge you to check out Borderline Personality disorder and see if she fits. Thye are often victims of sexual abuse. And, the black and white thinking is very much a BPD trait. You also mention her promiscuity pre -marriage(and, apparently while married, as well).

You've pointed out three big red flags. There are 9 criteria and a person meeting 5 is diagnosable. Take a look into this. Infidelity is rampant amog the disordered.