Mrs. W,

Thank you for your support--I have read many of your posts on many threads and I find your humble candor and honest story to be refreshing and inspirational...thank you again.

I was not offended by 5of6's post...whether one calls it "venom" or "righteous anger" (I do like your definition better), it is something that will pass with time and I eventually have to let go of completely. I am getting there, but not yet fully "there" yet and I'm not going to rush beyond what time I need to do it healthily. Everybody "heals" at their own rate and I may be a bit slower than some BSs because:

--I trusted xWW so completely and was utterly taken by surprise with what I learned
--I did LOVE her whole-heartedly and my innate belief in "loyalty no matter what" was not reciprocated
--I never had a "D-day" or a confession/admission of any sort
--I "found out things" in a piecemeal, bit-by-bit fashion over an extended period of time via friends & OM's xBW
--I found the sordid details to be a revolting repudiation of the person I had known so well and for so long
--I know that xWW is unable to face me or even look me in the eyes
(I AM SO GLAD THAT SHE IS STAYING AWAY FROM ME COMPLETELY NOW!)

Yes, I have read and learned a tremendous amount to help myself understand the mechanisms involved, even as I find the decision-making involved to be completely baffling--as virtually all BSs do. I have become somewhat of a "lay-expert" on this topic, a subject I NEVER expected or wanted to be anywhere near. It has helped me gain some peace and given me some tools to help other's I know who are in the "utter confusion" stage that I was in ~2 years ago.

No hard feelings, 5of6, I know you have been through heck as well--but you are also much farther out from it then I currently am...God Bless

Mr. W,

I was taken aback and STRUCK by what you wrote here. No, there was no deposition or trial...we just made a private 'settlement agreement'. You are completely correct and I have regretted that and have realized that I was played for at least a year now with regard to this. Not with respect to the numerical monetary settlement which was 'fair' in the strictly legal sense (I live in a community-property, no-fault state so there isn't much 'wiggle-room'), but in the emotional-justice sense as you so wisely alluded to. Allow me to explain and unburden this element of the story...

During our separation period (the A was in progress beforehand and throughout w/o my knowledge), we were in MC...well I was--she wasn't there with the same motivations and sincerity that I was, I now know. [Yes, I am ashamed to admit this: I hadn't found MB yet, was ignorant of its principles, unknowingly enabled cake-eating, and was so distraught and desperate to reconcile that I was blindedly in denial to the red-flags and ignored warnings from friends...STUPID!] Early in this period, I was given solid warnings/evidence from a friend that I "should have her followed". WW was a master of manipulation at "giving me just enough" tenderness & sincerity to convince me that "there was hope" and I shouldn't rock the boat, so I didn't (OM's BW was trying to find me then but we never made contact until way later--she knew WAY more obviously as OM had confessed to her finally under pressure). I have many times since fantasized about "nuclear exposure" and confronting her with documentary evidence right in front of our MC--she would have been utterly destroyed and the A might have crumbled quickly then, as her 'victim-hood/halo' act would have been revealed for the exaggerated sham and rationalization mecahnism that it was. DARN!

Later, when she filed and became intermittently belligerent & hostile in the face of my tears, she cowed me into not going the 'trial route' for what I now know were strictly her own selfish reasons miscast as altruism ("I hope we can just be amicable about this?"). She threatened me with $6k/mo in spousal support--later quietly dropped--and going 'full-out' if I didn't go along with the no-trial/settlement route.

I have since learned that the spousal support was a hollow threat. She had NO grounds for anything more than trivial alimony (no kids, full-time career, self-sufficient, got property, etc.). She didn't want the TIME, EXPENSE, and TRUTH of a trial and adultery is ADMISSIBLE in deciding spousal support issues. She just wanted it "over" quickly and "cleanly" to be with OM and not be humiliated by public admission of the A's role. I relunctantly went along to keep my (substantial) retirement accounts from being disturbed and in the foolish hope that she might reconsider at some point during the process. DARN #2!

The only glimmer in all this is that I later found out from OM's xBW#3 (!!!), that her an POSOM/her WH DID go to trial and my xWW was deposed as part of that. OM's xBW read me key parts of the depo on the phone--so the A is 'on record' and xWW knows that I have been made privy to it...but you are right, it would have been much better to have it happen with me sitting across the table and staring her down while she testified under oath.

I almost wish (non-sensically, I know) that there was some way for me to 're-open' some element of it somehow...just to have her deposed and have to admit the whole truth under oath in front of me. Would be be worth a lot of $$$$ to me, LOL.

My story is a MB case study in what "not to do" when emotions obscure "having a plan" ...

Just re-read the new posts on the thread...I didn't realize that 5of6 was a PARTICIPANT, not a past VICTIM, of the 7yr. Affairage.

5of6, please post a thread on your experiences when you are ready...your insights are invalueable.

Thank you.......

BUMPING for ME!....

Quote "I almost wish (non-sensically, I know) that there was some way for me to 're-open' some element of it somehow...just to have her deposed and have to admit the whole truth under oath in front of me. Would be be worth a lot of $$$$ to me, LOL." unquote.

I would love to know if this case can be opened on the basis of non transparency? Any lawyers out there...?

Imagine,

I am not an attorney so I cannot say for sure, but I strongly suspect not. I live in a community-property, "no-fault" state, so a WS does not need a "valid reason" to pursue divorce and a 50-50 settlement. The statutes do not recognize adultery, manipulation, , cake-eating, blame-shifting, scapegoating, emotional devastation, and lying (except under oath, of course) as 'crimes'. Sadly, it is quite 'legal' to cheat, take advantage of your BS's sincere reconciliation efforts, and lie your butt off to him/her/friends/family/counselors, etc.

Please correct me if I am wrong anyone...

Sadly, SDCWman, you are very right. I wish I could give you different legal advice, but it is what it is....(

BTW, I'm in corporate law, so you can't hate me for being an ambulance chaser : - ) In fact, one of my last trials was defending a doc who made a REALLY bad call, patient died and he was sued for malpractice. This guy was so out there, he missed the last half of the trial because he had a vacation planned and wasn't going to cancel it....needless to say, that didn't go over big with the jury. About 3 years later, he was convicted on federal drug trafficing charges under the guise of operating a "legitimate" methadone clinic).

Brits,

I have no malice toward legitimate attorney's pursuing legitimate claims (and, yes, there are BAD doctors out there against whom malpractice claims are warranted).

Thanks for your confirmation on the original question--as I suspected, there is no legal recourse available to most BSs for the deceit and pain inflicted upon them by their WSs/xWSs.

I always wondered about suing for "pain and suffering". I mean I would think what a BS is put thru is the prime example of that.

I wonder if its worth anything to ask for the money back. A short letter describing her action and past legal consequenses.

Let an intermediary handle it. If there is no response, so what!

There is no biblical chance that the two of you would be allowed to reconnect.

Keep her way out of your face...

Imagine,

I don't understand what you are getting at here...

A) She IS "way out of my face"! I have not spoken to her since she called me last summer and I have not had any face-to-face contact with her in well over a year (when I gave her each and every one of our photo albums--dozens of them--from our 13 years together). I realized pretty quickly after that last 7/08 phone call that, despite her "baby-steps" toward expressing some remorse and regret, it was mainly about her seeking validation and condoning 'forgiveness' from me while she continued her AM with POSOM. Maybe they had a temporary fight/falling out, maybe she was having a moment of nostalgic apology, maybe she realizes how badly she messed up (but is determined to 'see it through' to the bitter end), but in the end it was just continuing cake-eating and her trying to hang on to me/my family in some tenuous, insincere, and non-committal way. As I have mentioned earlier on this thread, I thankfully do not even see her at a distance anymore since she seems to have stopped visiting her friend in my neighborhood--perhaps they are no longer close anymore. Its definitely 'for the best' for me.

B) Asking "for the money back" is an utter waste of time and I don't want to contact her (even indirectly). The $$ is hers legally and I have long ago put an end to her (several previous) requests for more funds and property (she has asked for 'reimbursement' for certain expenses and additional household items before in '07-'08). I told her/her atty that I will follow the legal decree's requirements and NOTHING MORE -- she can keep her 30 PIECES OF SILVER and be gone. POSOM will take 15 of them when they inevitably divorce for the 6th time between them.

Hi SDCW,

I completely understand your point of view.

I'm a negotiator. I believe in the principle "If you don't ask you don't get"

If she is avaricious for her thirty pieces... let it be. The baggage getting it may well make it not worth the effort.

I'm glad she has now left the neighbour alone. may you find the peace that "Kick me" has in his heart after divorce.

Sample letter to xWW (tongue-firmly-in-cheek)

xWW,

Approximately 2 years ago we agreed to a financial & property settlement as part of our divorce...errr, YOUR divorce because, as you well know, I selfishly wanted no part of that and in fact did EVERYTHING a man could possibly do to genuinely effect a reconciliation--efforts that were spurned and rejected by you many, many times over the course of a year. I appreciate your belated recognition last year of my sincerity and admission of your own “hardheadedness” in “taking me for granted” and “not listening” when you had numerous chances to avoid what I foolishly assumed to be a mutual travesty at the time.

I have come to see how ridiculous I was in trying to forestall your happiness; you need not apologize again and I am sorry for standing in the way of your undeniable self-improvement in the past. With the wisdom granted by time and much more information coming to light, I have come to see how unfair this was to you even though it was technically "legal" at the time. I am sure, with the benefit of hindsight and reflection, that you feel the same way.

As you know, since you filed for dissolution many unresolved nagging questions have been answered and much confusing past behavior has been explained by the facts that I have learned to be irrefutably true. Simply put, you really sold yourself short by concealing and denying for so long how truly special your lover was & is and how proud you must surely be & have been of your relationship with him, regardless of its co-adulterous nature and outset. You have been far too modest, xWW, and you no doubt would welcome this renewed opportunity to prove all of that definitively to the world in an act of unselfish sacrifice that befits and ennobles the love you two clearly share as morally incorruptible soul-mates.

You have written me before that you “aren’t materialistic” and I believe you entirely! I am completely willing to prostitute myself for money on your behalf so that you can have this chance to show how “above it all” and enlightened you are by comparison. It is really the very least I could do…

Of the approximately $1.3 million in cash and equity that you were sullied with, I would be willing to accept, say, $400,000 (1/3rd) worth of burden off your hands as a testament to the wonder & honor of your inspirational romance. I sincerely hope that I have not insulted either you or POSOM by pegging the value of your love and integrity too low. Feel free to increase the amount as you see fit as only you two know how truly priceless a couple you are. Myself, friends, family, OM’s xBW, and kids--we are mere ignorant bystanders who are benighted in the absence of your omnipotent and irrepressibly uplifting true-love.

I apologize for not offering you this golden opportunity earlier; please forgive me for assuming that you could possibly want to be dirtied by these trivial and disreputable concerns.

Thank you and I will eagerly await your check just as fast as you can write it,

xBH

I love it, SDCWman! Wouldn't you just LOVE to really send it? The look on her face while reading it would be priceless I think!

Mrs. W

P.S. You've just GOT to tell us what your name means/stands for - if you can, that is...It drives me nuts that I read part of it as "woman" - you are very clearly NOT a woman! When I say the name out loud to Mr. W it does, unfortunately, come out as "SDC Woman" though...Sorry 'bout dat!

Maybe I'll just call ya "Whoa Man"!

Mrs. W

I absolutely loved this letter! You have a cunning wit about you even with all you have been through and being back out in this treacherous world of dating post-divorce. (It ain't fun!) You're a good man Charlie Brown!

You DO have a beautiful way to prostitute yourself for money.

While we love all this letter, what do you think she would do...??

1) Letter: As I noted, it was clearly sarcastic and meant comedically for fellow-MBers only. I am not planning on sending it (or anything like it) to xWW as nothing productive would come of that. She's not going to suddenly find her moral compass again because of what I say and she certainly isn't going to altruistically return any money. We all know what an utter waste of time it is to use logic, reasoning, guilt, or pleading with a WS. I did all that a thousand times over in the past (pre-D) with predictably fruitless results. She ignored a million red flags--moral, social, emotional, practical....you name it. The Karma Bus is now rapidly gaining steam and bearing down on her with some recent events (perhaps I will post details of this later, "powder dry" for now).

2) ScreenName: Sorry for the confusion...I realize now that having the initial "W" right before "man" might lead to gender recognition issues LOL. The 4 initials in caps refer to a couple of recreational identifiers that are important to me. I know this sounds paranoid, but I'm relunctant to go into more detail just in case unwanted eyes may be lurking here. I doubt it...but its possible as I did mention to xWW and xFIL a long time ago that I had perused this site and I know (by HER admission) that she has "kept track of" me via the internet in the past. That is how she found out info about my brother's wedding last summer and wondered how her "sending a gift would be received". Bizarre, I know. I wonder how she sleeps at all.....

Thanks, BB, appreciate ya!