MEL:
Feisty?? A poster once told me I needed "ASSERTIVENESS TRAINING!" So I have no idea what you mean! \:D

Tell that to the guy you pulled out of the pickup truck .

Besides, you swing a 2x4 like Josh Hamilton!

I can't! He is too scared to talk to me!

The red hair made me do it!

The red hair made me do it!

Yeah, I get that part. Red hair (wife, two sons) is why my carry permit reads

Hair: Silver

And now, War and Peace, Part 2.

There's been some resistance to reading the books I've picked up. She stopped reading "NOT Just Friends" a while back, and last week I bought HNHN and "Love & Respect" by Dr. Emerson Eggerichs (highly recommended!).

I told her during the second discussion (the one that didn't go so well) that I really need her to start on HNHN as soon as possible. I figured with her state of mind right now, leaving Shirley Glass's book out of the picture was a good idea.

And she's been reading HNHN for the past few days. A good sign. I have been pulling excerpts from this website that I've felt were profound and putting them in a file for later perusal. One of those was "Joseph's Letter." I printed off a copy a couple of days ago and left it in HNHN so she'd see it when she got home from work. She hasn't mentioned it, but it was folded in half, so I think she read it. I'll see if she addresses it on her own sometime in the next week. Again, she's doing the right things, so we'll do this on her emotional schedule on this one. Neither one of us is going anywhere.

Now comes the possible 2x4. She set up a MySpace account about a month ago. Her family and her co-workers all have MySpace pages (my family uses Facebook) and she wants one too. When I pointed out dangers, she told me she also wants to make a statement about our status on it, as in declaring to the world that we are together, permanently.

Oh, did I mention that Pond Scum is on MySpace?

Uh huh. Trouble. Then again, maybe not.

Every once in a while, she looks at his page. And she admitted it right away when I asked. But she seems more interested in the OMW's page. One of her more recent status reports had her excited because she was about "to go riding off into the wild blue yonder on the Harley with my Hubby. Eat your hearts out!" She told me she started laughing when she saw that. Her thoughts on it? "What in the hell is she thinking?!?" She seemed insulted that OMW would think she'd be eating her heart out about it.

Humorously enough, what she said mirrored my thoughts exactly when I first saw it. (Yes, I check their MySpace pages regularly for any clues on what might be going on over there.)

Her take is that OMW didn't tell me the truth about her M when we spoke on the phone in January. It seems Pond Scum was living openly with another woman way back before my wife earned the extra "W". That camper shell he claimed to live in at his own house was parked on this other woman's lawn when this whole merry-go-round got started. She thinks those two have some sort of weird game going on, one that's not healthy to be around.

No argument there.

That of course led to the question of what was running through her mind when she looked at Pond Scum's MySpace page -- enquiring minds want to know, of course. Her answer was any number of descriptive words, mostly ten or twelve letter compound words that wouldn't make it past the PC screen. (Again, matching my opinion. Go figure.)

I asked her if she was disappointed that Pond Scum seems to be in OMW's good graces despite all the evidence. She said yes. I then asked if what she wanted was -- exact quote -- "A spousally-performed double orchidectomy." She figured it would be too good for him. (I have no argument with that, either.) OMW has a cat. Might make a good meal for it.

She says she'd love to talk to him one more time and ask him what he was trying to accomplish, and if he just hates women, and so on and so forth. That might be entertaining to watch, if you want to be clinical about it, but I'd want to make sure she didn't sneak her hammerless .38 Special into her purse. She might use it on him. She admitted if she did to him what she'd like to do, I'd have to visit her in jail.

(I have my own ideas of what I'd like to do, but MikeC is an object lesson in that -- hope he's okay. Ignore my digression.)

She asked for my help in putting pictures on her MySpace page -- pictures of the two of us, including the one I'm currently using as my picture on Facebook. The caption she wanted "23 years and still going strong."

Strong statement. Goes nice with the new tattoo.

I'm still not quite sure what to think. Things seem to be going well, with occasional hiccups. Oddly enough, the hiccups are reassuring. We're working at it, both of us, and we will get to the other side.

The plan is to head home next year and renew our vows for our 25th anniversary. We'd always talked about doing that, but now it carries more meaning than ever before.

Okay, there's the update. Looking for feedback, thoughts, and any warnings I might need.

Fire away.

Her checking on him on myspace is contact.

NO CONTACT is for both of you - you both need to quite that. BOTH OF YOU.

bigkahuna:

Her checking on him on myspace is contact.

NO CONTACT is for both of you - you both need to quit that. BOTH OF YOU.

Advice noted. I'm done checking those two out. You're right -- why torture myself.

FWW has also agreed to stop. We'll see if she lives up to it. 50/50, but don't worry, I'm monitoring.

It's not about the A restarting -- no chance of that. It's all about her getting her mind right at this point.....

AOTC...

I think it's pretty SICK that your wife is STALKING her VICTIM (OMW)!!! "Her take" on what the OMW said regarding HER marriage is a bunch of HOOEY...Your wife has NO IDEA what goes on in OM's marriage...Anything she was told about his marriage came from a KNOWN LIAR...

You both need to knock off the commentary about their marriage...Their marriage is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS...

Mrs. W

I agree with the others. It really creeped me out to hear your wife is still in competition with OMW.

MrsW:
I think it's pretty SICK that your wife is STALKING her VICTIM (OMW)!!! "Her take" on what the OMW said regarding HER marriage is a bunch of HOOEY...Your wife has NO IDEA what goes on in OM's marriage...Anything she was told about his marriage came from a KNOWN LIAR...

You both need to knock off the commentary about their marriage...Their marriage is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS...

Whoa...first off, you're right on one thing. I shouldn't have gotten into the commentary part of things. I don't know exactly what's going on.

But remember... she's reacting to what the OMW told me. She didn't even know there was an OMW. Pond Scum did such a good job talking about his divorce that he convinced everyone that knew him from his former workplace (about 40 people at FWW's current employer) that he was divorced. He even convinced me. It wasn't until I went to the courthouse to check on when he was divorced that I discovered that fact. Two years ago, Pond Scum was openly living with another woman one town over from where OMW lives. She told me that they'd never had any problems of any kind. I didn't know that when I spoke with OMW, but I've had independent confirmation of that fact since then.

Basically, OMW lied to me. I've never met the woman face-to-face, wouldn't know her if I saw her on the street. But she sure knows me -- knows all about me. I sent her my cell phone breakdown sheet to give her evidence, and she promised me she'd do the same. I never heard from her again. I called her the next day and left a voice mail, then left a text message with her the following day. Not a peep from her. Not a thank you, not a it doesn't add up. Nothing. Black hole. Crickets chirping. To find out she lied to me on top of that was pretty annoying.

Granted, the info she gave about her conversations with Pond Scum blew away the fog in my household, and I'm grateful for that, but I don't get the rest of it. My wife was mad because it appears that she's been considered a whacked-out liar, and that ol' Pond Scum is skating on it. I get her anger at that. Hey, I even have some sympathy for that, if you can believe it.

And think about it -- OMW knew there was something weird going on for a minimum of nine months to a year, and never once tried to contact me. If your husband is being stalked, don't you try to do something about it for safety reasons? Her lack of action doesn't add up.

But you're right, commentary on their marriage was inappropriate. Won't happen again.

Lexxxy:
I agree with the others. It really creeped me out to hear your wife is still in competition with OMW.

She's not. The OMW seems to think she is. What's galling to FWW is that it seems that OMW bought all of Pond Scum's fables. And she was insulted that OMW thought she might still have an interest in him. That's all. That's it. And I believe her reaction is genuine. Her other comment was said with a sarcastic chuckle, "Good luck to her. She can have him."

Of course YOUR WIFE would never be taken in by pond scum. Or ever have an interest in him.

Do you know how stupid this stuff sounds? I'm just shaking my head.

bk....

Per your suggestion back before MB blew up for a few days, she hasn't looked at either MySpace site since I asked her not to do it any more (and explaining the rationale behind the request). Still monitoring, but so far, so good.

Of course YOUR WIFE would never be taken in by pond scum. Or ever have an interest in him.

Do you know how stupid this stuff sounds? I'm just shaking my head.

She's in BTDT mode. She did get taken in by Pond Scum and she's dealing with the consequences of her actions. It's been pretty brutal around here. She's offended by the fact that it seems that he's skating, and that she's being considered some sort of nutcase by OMW.

I'm offended a little by the fact that OMW flat out lied to me on the phone when I called her. I laid everything out on the line, and she blew smoke up my butt when she described how her marriage had never, ever even had an issue on infidelity. I sent her information she said she wanted, then never returned the favor or even acknowledged she'd received the stuff. Honesty from that household has been in short supply.

And if she knew FWW had been calling and sending inappropriate texts for somewhere close to a year, why didn't she try to contact me? Stalkers can be dangerous, and contacting me would seem be a common sense move for safety's sake. Of course the answer is, she was told by him that I'd called and talked to him about it. (My phone records prove otherwise, and she has 'em.)

But you know what? I'm worrying about me and mine from here on out. They're irrelevant.

I've been doing a lot of pondering the past three days or so, trying to figure out where my emotions really are right now.

I figured out where a lot of my residual anger is coming from. I'm the one that everyone else involved has flat-out lied to, some for a very long time.

I've been getting truth out of the FWW, finally. We've both been working hard on meeting EN's, and she's agreed to get back to reading the books I've been collecting on the subject. (HNHN, LB, NOT "Just Friends", Love & Respect, with SAA due in the mail late this week or early next week.) I read at around 800-1000 words a minute, but she's not a fast reader. It'll take time.

The idea is for her to read as many as possible before we go on a weekend getaway next month for her birthday. We're going to that same vacation spot she went to with Pond Scum this time last year, and where we went in October. Doing a little reclaiming. She understands why.

I do know that any understanding I had of the time line of things is totally bollixed up. I need to go over things one more time with her. I hate doing that, but I have to for my own sanity. I don't understand the whole thing just yet. She doesn't want to talk about it more, obviously, but I'm working on getting her to see the light for my need for closure. I'm confident she'll get it, and fairly soon.

I'm not trying to shove the whole s*** sandwich down her throat. That's no way to accomplish anything. She's been working on it on her own, so I'm trying not to be counterproductive. There's been progress, so I have to be patient, the hardest thing of all for me. Patience is not who I am. Gotta learn. I can do this.

As for the anger for Pond Scum and his wife, no need to elaborate on him. He bald-face lied to not just me, but everyone, and had dozens of people convinced. I'm thinking Karma Bus, because people like him create their own private hells, given enough rope.

Now for OMW. She lied to me as well when we spoke. I've found Pond Scum's address where he lived one town over during the separation she says never took place. And if she knew something weird was going on, why didn't she call me? Her explanation doesn't make sense. Accepting Pond Scums explanation that he was "going along" with suggestive late-night texts? C'mon. Get serious.

I've come to the conclusion that I will never understand those two people, and I shouldn't even spend the effort trying. I have to worry about me and mine. That's enough work for anyone.

All I know is, things seem to be getting better, slowly, which makes it more likely that I'm not imagining things.

There may be a light at the end of the tunnel after all, and odds are improving that it's not attached to a train.

Had another long talk this weekend, and boy what a weird turn this thing has taken.

The story of the A has changed, but oddly enough, I don't find the revised story all that upsetting. In fact, I even understand why she didn't spill her guts the first couple of times. And I think she's finally vomited it all up.

The revisions make her look worse, but not all that much worse, since at this point it's just a matter of degree. In fact, it all looks more pathetic than anything else.

The frequency of PA meetings didn't change. What was altered was when it started, and how. Date it from May '07 instead of June.

Things started innocently enough with practical jokes at work, which when she described them, I remembered her telling me all about them as they happened. Funny stuff, and totally devoid of anything inappropriate.

The problems came when Pond Scum left his part time job at my FWW's employer. They stayed in touch anyway. In March of '07, he called her at work to chat, and she asked him if was ever going to give her a motorcycle ride. He agreed, and that's when things started developing.

She admitted that she thought he was good looking and there was some attraction, but she never meant for anything to happen. Believable. But after that late March ride, things at home started getting a little tougher. I was going through things at work and we started arguing. She admits she started picking fights, and that's where the justifications started in her mind.

Pond Scum called her, and they met at a local park one afternoon in early May, and that led to a make-out session. A couple of weeks later, he called her, she met him at his full-time job, and when the building emptied, the PA started. In fact, she said for the first four months, that's what they did about once every two or three weeks -- met at his office and had sex on a table. Yuck.

She told me that she just wasn't emotionally prepared to tell me this before. I get it. It was just sleazy behavior, and she's ashamed of it. She should be.

That was about the only real change in the story. And since it makes her look so bad, I strongly believe that this is the real deal.

She also told me something else that changes everything. Pond Scum had ED issues the entire way through! He blamed it on Gulf War Syndrome, which doesn't quite fly when you examine it further. He told her about a month before her confession to me that he had to go to a doctor to get a shot to help him with it. (I looked it up -- if you do shots they're self-administered each time you want to get busy. More lies.) So much for the younger, good looking stud. Just sad.

She said he'd asked her to move in with him two or three times, but she never considered doing it. Our out of town trip last October before my joint replacement surgery made her wonder about everything, since it was a game-changer for us with my acknowledgment that our marriage needed a jump start.

His statements weren't adding up, and she had that "being used" feeling. Duh.

Basically, it all sounded so sleazy, so "hole and corner" as our Brit friends might say. Just low rent, low class, and as out of character for her as you can get.

With her reading LB right now, and the things she's been doing, and that we've been doing, we're making progress on the M. That's the other half of the equation, of course.

With the research I did, and what I did know before, her story stands up better with the revisions. It would have been nice if Pond Scum's wife had told me the truth about things when I talked to her back in January, but we're past that point now.

What are the things I need to watch for, look out for, and do to keep this thing progressing?

Replies eagerly awaited.

Well it's been exactly 2 mos since I replied to your thread, and at that time, I told you that you were nowhere "ahead of the curve." You simply didn't realize it at the time. Too much enthusiasm and too eager that you had the entire truth so quickly.

Sad to say, you are not done yet. There will be yet another revalation and soon I hope.

All Blessings,
Jerry

shinethrough

I paid attention to what you said in the last post. I knew that my FWW and I would have to have another talk to cover everything one last time and try to get rid of the "I don't know/don't remembers."

It happened Thursday night, and I hate to say it, I began it with a real LB, on a return of serve. I knew she was going to be up when I got home from work and I was looking forward to talking with her. Unfortunately, she was watching this incredibly dumb movie on TV (and I hate watching TV in general -- nothing's on. And that's an expert opinion, trust me!), so I headed off to the bedroom to read. Instead I fumed. When I went to the fridge to get a beer, she asked me what was wrong, guessed why, and off we went.

She raised a ruckus about not getting any alone time anymore. She's right -- S23 is working part time, and he's usually working when she is, so when she's home, so is he. When I'm around, all my attention is focused on her, and she feels stifled. She's right, which is galling.

So naturally, things turned to the aftermath of the A. I started bitching that she hadn't picked up any of the books for about a week. She got defensive, then offensive, and then the books started flying around the room. (I picked the fight, and should have known what was coming.)

She complained that I keep throwing the A in her face. I don't, but she's still WDing a little bit, and feels ashamed, angry, anxious, and a few other a-words. I told her that I still had questions, including where ol' Pond Scum's ex-GF was living during the A.

She blew up, and insisted on showing me where, since she didn't know the address but could find it. So off we went. She told me it was off one major street in our town. She was mixed up -- it was another major street that started with the same letter. Honest mistake. While we were driving, I went over the beginnings of the A one more time. She showed my the house, I memorized the address, and we came back home. She told me she was angry and shut down.

Funny thing is, knowing the address allowed me to do internet research that actually proved some of the things she told me. Got the name, which matched the first name of the GF she told me about earlier. Google maps proved that the OMW lied to me. The street shot of her house didn't show the trailer or the motorcycle, which would have been there if Pond Scum was actually living with her the whole time, like OMW had said. The photo of the ex-GF's house had the motorcycle in the front yard and what looked like the trailer in the back yard.

I know everyone hates long posts.....so this is being broken up into two parts.....

End Part 1

Part 2....

Going over the A's beginnings brought one minor change. On the day it became a PA, they met at that same park, talked, then he invited her to where he worked, which was deserted by then since everyone had gone home. She knew what was going to happen, and agreed to go.

So, the blinders are off. Let's face it, she didn't set out to start it, but she was involved every step of the way. She gave off all the right vibes, and Pond Scum's reptilian brain understood what the possibilities were.

Excuse for asking for the motorcycle ride? An angry "I like motorcycles!" Great. A new trigger for me. Now I get to be reminded of things everytime I see a HD motorcycle. It's going to be a long spring.

She's vomited up everything that matters. When I asked her why she just didn't tell me all of it from the get-go, she said she didn't think I could handle it all right away. Typical foggy thinking.

She's also made a few statements at various times through the iterations of her story that, as a whole, are quite telling.

She talked about how she felt like a maid, since no one was helping her around the house despite the fact she had a fulltime job. (Guilty as charged.) She talked about when I was around, my nose was either in a book, or glued to the computer monitor. (Close enough.) With the boys grown, she felt unneeded, and wanted to develop independence. (She sure as hell did that!)

She said the sex wasn't very good due to his ED issues, so I asked her why she kept going back for more. She said it was because he showed her attention. Sad to say, I buy it. Not filling EN's, and my own IBs -- we pay for our sins sevenfold. Grrrrrr.

She told me that he asked her to move in with him at least three times. She said she never considered it because she knew what she had with me. (Another slice of, er, cake anyone?) Let's face it -- Pond Scum is a loser. His job pays squat. He's a pretty face who's good with automotive tools, but not with his personal tool, and he has a motorcycle.

She also told me that she wanted to see if things would get better between us -- not that she told me anything was wrong, mind you. I'm your standard idiot. If she wasn't complaining, everything must be okay.

Our out of town trip just before joint replacement surgery was what broke the A's back. I was asking the right questions about our marriage, and trying to improve things. At that point, the lies and subterfuge got to her, and she confessed to me.

Oops... I lied. There will be a Part 3.

Part 3.....

Her confession is one of the things that have saved the M so far. Another is the fact that the PA part of the program ended before our out of town trip. Still another is the fact that's she's ashamed and sorry for what she did. I don't think there'll be a repeat. I've already told her that if it happens again, I'm Mason Crosby and her a$$ is a football.

I spent part of yesterday fuming. I was going over my options. Should I have an RA to get even? How about Plan D and making it ugly -- with my prominence in the community it would be front page every day. Pond Scum would wind up getting fired for having sex on city property, the boys would never speak to her again, we'd lose the house and have to declare bankruptcy, and I'd lose my job and have to move to another city and start over again. And I wouldn't care.

I made my decision. I went to Wal-Mart, got three roses, went home at dinnertime and put 'em in a vase (she was at work) and wrote on the back of an index card asking for do-over. Sanity prevails. I don't want this to go up in smoke. I love her too much for that.

She said a do-over was what she wanted, too. Thank G-d, as my pals who are Members of the Tribe would say.

This morning, I woke up early, took my blood pressure meds, and started brooding. I laid on the couch while she was sleeping, and the tears started leaking.

How Could She?

Uh, you had an ONS 20 years ago.

I was drunk! She was sober, and did it with malice aforethought!

And how much attention did you pay her over the years? How much more effort did you put into the job than into the marriage?

Ah, crap. Shuddup.

Honestly, I think I know everything I need to know about the details of the A. Anything else would be pure torture. I understand why she doesn't want to talk about it -- it makes here feel about three inches tall. At this point, questions about the A turn into spousal abuse. If she wants to talk, I'll listen. If not, time to start letting it go.

I know I'm dealing with a form of PTSD. (How can I have PTSD? PTSD is for guys like my Dad, who survived the Ardennes forest in '44-45. THAT'S stress, not this. This is just sucky.) When things get to me, I'm going to go off by myself until it passes.

I'm looking for any advice anyone has for me so I don't start fouling things up. I think we've turned a corner, if I don't go off the deep end.

And in case anyone was wondering, my screen name comes from my basic personality. I'm the most relentlessly optimistic person I know.

There's always a way to make it work. A little more effort, and you'll turn the corner. If it hits the fan, hey, we have fertilizer for the garden. IT'S ALL GOOD!

I'm getting my first taste of clinical depression. No one can tell, because with me clinical depression appears to be anyone else's passing bad mood.

Amazingly, my optimism (in the case of everything except the Cubs) has proven to be correct. Here's hoping my streak continues.

I've already told her that if it happens again, I'm Mason Crosby and her a$$ is a football.

For any non-football fan...or Packer fan Crosby is the Packers Field Goal kicker!!