For over a year I did all of the things I just read someone telling newly BS's about. I left our home almost immediately professing how the OW was different and I tried (I didn't really) to do the right thing but just couldn't because I just loved her to much. It was all such BS....Makes me sick to even think that I could say those things to such a wonderful person.

I did exactly what he said....Jumping back and forth across the fence (cake eating I think it's called)telling my wife and the OW the same thing at times....Each time my wife believed and tried to trust me again and each time I betrayed her, broke her heart and trampled any self esteem she may possibly have had left. I cry everyday now thinking about all the times she just asked why...Why do you love her more than me? Why won't you come home and try? Why can't you love me, is there something wrong with me? Never once did I do anything to make her feel differently!!!! I hurt everyday so intensely that I can barely leave my home, but I know it can't even possibly be close to what I put her through making her think that the man who had promised to honor and cherish instead told her that he loves someone else. I did all of these things and more and if I wrote them all down for everyone to see this post would run for days.

I had separated from the OW for 2 weeks with no contact and my wife and I were getting along and she actually told me recently that she really believed I had turned the corner and we were going to be ok. Then it happened....OW called one night to argue and 2 hours later, she was at my house. 2 days later, she asked me and I lied again, but she could tell and OW sent her a text as I was talking to her and I broke my wife's heart all over again.

3 weeks passed w/o me seeing or talking to my wife, I just couldn't because I knew almost immediately that I had made ANOTHER mistake!....I knew almost immediately that I would not be with the OW. I was going to end it and it would be over. FOREVER!!!!! I did, but just could not bring myself to even be in my wife's presense because I was so incredibly ashamed of myself and just did not want to hurt her anymore. It was at that time, I truly realized how wrong this had all been. I started a blog on (1/20/09)that I wrote to my wife in about what I had done and how truly important to me she was, but I couldn't send her the link because of my shame. I told a very close friend about the blog and actually had him read it.....He urged me and basically told me that if I didn't give her the address that he would. I then gave her the link and had my first true breakdown with her...I was beside my self with what I had done once it finally all came out.

Unfortunately During this time, she decided that she had been hurt enough. She never said a word to me about it until I opened up and finally came to my senses. She now wants no part of it. I have been educating myself about how I could do such a terrible thing and doing everything I can not to just tell her I'm going to change, but show her with my actions....Her reply is simply "No, you hurt me enough!!! I know I can trust myself and I will never let you hurt me again. I deserve so much better."

How can I argue with her!!! She's right, she does deserve so much better. I put her through a hell that I will never really be able to understand how deeply it hurt and I didn't do it once or twice, I did it repeatedly for over a year.

I know this is incredibly long, but I will now get to my question. I was reading a post to newly betrayed spouse "Do's" and "Dont's" and it is now like a role reversal and she is doing the do's and I'm doing the dont's....I have pasted them below and responded in red.

Any help anyone could give me to shed some light and give me any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. My first post was 3 days ago and I'm now aware that I probably started this post in the wrong area even though everyone has been very helpful...Kind of funny after I've learned more about this....I was selfish enough when I first came in 3 days ago to actually think now that I was ready to work on this that we were in recovery.
Everthing I read and learn makes me all the more ashamed of what I have done and all the more afraid that I truly may have done TO MUCH damage along the way to ever be able to show her that she can truly trust and love me again.

OK...the list of Do's and Don'ts.

Do's
1. Act Happy She is a different women
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)She goes out quite often now
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone(she completely controls how far the 2 conversations we have had go and says very little other than an occasional sharp remark about my behavior)
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)(She has made the comment..That's great, I'm glad you're trying to fix yourself, but I'm not going to allow you to ever hurt me like this again)6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)I really don't know who her social circle is, but I know it has grown.7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)She has always been an incredibly attractive women to me.
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)(She said yesterday "I'm not the same person and I don't know what's going to happen in the future, but I know I can trust myself and I may or may not ever be with another man, but if I do he will be someone that deserves me") I just started to cry again as I re-read that after I typed it....

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you" I have been ending every blog and email with I love You and have told her repeatedly in my numerous breakdowns in the last 4 days.2. Ask questions that there aren't answers to yet. I have asked nothing of her, except to watch and see. She has told me that she would prefer not to talk to me at all about it.
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag..I have no desire to do any of the above...I have no right!!!!
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions...I have probably said this to much in the last few days, probably out of desperation. She has heard all my lines, lies, BS before and it always has come back to hurt her.
5. Argue, Reason or Plead..I WIL NOT argue with her...I have told her that I am hers completely and at her discretion...If you need to talk, I'll talk. If you have questions, I answer them until you don't have anymore...It's completely up to her. I have however tried to reason and plead with her and in doing this not respected the boundaries she put in place when telling me that she didn't want to even discuss it after only 3 days.
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)....Not at all because it's over and I ended it!!!
7. Act helpless or depressed...I am both and just want my family back and at the same time can't possibly ask her to take me seriously after such a short amount of time.8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble..Not a chance it would ever happen regardless of the situation.
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)..I haven't asked, but I am going to schedule an appt. with Jennifer as soon as they get back to me with her schedule and depending I may ask her to just listen in.10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"..I haven't done this
11. GIVE UP....I won't and told her that even if she is not ready now or ever, I am still going to be 100% accountable to her. I forwarded her all of my email addresses and passwords as well as activating a GPS tracker on my own phone. I told her she could throw the passwords in the gargage and never check to see where I'm at, but I was still going to show her I'm doing everything in my power to regain her trust love.

I don't know what to make of it, but it confuses me even more. If anyone can shed a little light and if any BS that have gone through similar situations can help me at all with what she may be thinking or what else I might possibly be able to do...I would appreciate any help possible.

Please click on "Notify" on the bottom of your last post and ask the moderators to move your thread to GQ2.

There are alot more people who can help you, and who are more experienced in this.

You are NOT in Recovery, your journey is just starting...

Thanks Lil

BTW, I give you permission to forward the open letter I wrote your W to her, if you think she is not reading here.

thanks lil...I just forwarded it to her...who knows. How long does it usually take for a moderator to get back to you or switch your post?

Depends on when one of them logs in. Prolly about dinner time? Just a guess.

thanks...I'm going to go get back in the pool for the first time in almost a year tonight, relax and try not to think about this for a while....Thanks again for your help and support.

ugottatri...

I thought of this earlier and tried to find your thread but couldn't on the Recovery board and thought I had lost my mind...LOL.

Then I came up with the bright idea that you prolly had your thread moved...hahaha, I was RIGHT!

Anyways...my question is, do you think your W could be seeing someone else (i.e., having an A herself)??? Have you heard any rumblings of this from any friends, family, etc.?

We sat and talked tonight for over 3 hours and at one point she said, I'm glad you are so dedicated to this and I'm sure you will find someone someday....At that point, I said "I won't because I betrayed you and won't ever again, but when you say that it makes me think you may have found someone and if you did I couldn't blame you"....She said no and I believe her....It is just not in her nature!!!!

She is faithful, unlike me!!!!

We talked and she actually said a few things, but none were anything close to someone that wants to work on our marriage. The things she said were all pretty much in the not a chance category. We did sit in each others arms for about 10 mins, but I think it was simply because she felt sorry for me. She said that wasn't the case. I told her as I was leaving that I loved her and she didn't respond, but as I was walking to my car she opened the door, started to say something then stopped and then said..."You know I love you too, but that still doesn't change anything"

I am pretty much in the same place she was when I left her and told her how special the OW was...She told me that I actually said that I envisioned growing old with the OW...I don't remember saying that, but I know I probably must have. The only difference is that she sat and comforted me tonight for something I did to her...and ask me what I was doing and where I was when she was enduring everything? I was off playing somewhere with the OW.....I really don't deserve her and am beginning to think that it really might not be possible to repair the wounds I have inflicted.

I somehow hope tonight may have opened a small crack, but I just don't honestly see how she will ever have the strength or desire to take another chance on me.....

Really sad night.....We reap what we sow

Yes, you absolutely DO reap what you so, and actually, as hard as this is on you, I am GLAD that you are feeling this much pain.

You are feeling so much pain because your W is dishing it right back to you...and you deserve every morsel that you are being delivered. Sad but true.

The difference is that she didn't DO anything to hurt you...you are hurting because of your own cruel actions. She is merely protecting herself.

You are only feeling a smidgen of the pain we felt when we were being kicked over and over again, while we are already lying on the floor in the fetal position, begging for it to stop. And you didn't...you just kept coming back, giving us one more kick. You need to figure out how you were capable of that.

I am also GLAD that your W is protecting herself...I sure understand that and think that she is a smart lady for doing that.

You see, because of the pain you are feeling right now, you are actually in a BETTER spot than many FWS's...you are GETTING IT.

If your W does decide to give you another chance, she will have a fully repentant, remorseful FWH to work at recovery with.
Many of us never had this to the DEGREE that you are demonstrating. You are SCARED which is adding to your demonstation of remorse. This is good!

Have you called and set up an appt. with Steve Harley? I recommend that you do that...he may be able to point you in the right direction and give you some ideas on how to Plan A your W and work on your M again.

How did you "end" it with OW this time? What's different?

Around here, it is suggested that you write a "no contact letter" to the OW (there are samples), have your wife approve it and have HER send it. Ask Jennifer if she thinks you should do that when you talk to her.

M4ever,

I have an appt. w/Jennifer Harley on Thursday night. It is still my hope that my wife might just listen in on the session, but I don't even know if I will ask her.

Yes, you are right, I am scared....But honestly what hurts the most isn't the pain I feel because she won't even consider a recomciliation. It's the recurring thoughts of how she must have felt and the flashbacks of times when she reached out and just wanted me to love her and instead I went off to fantasy land. How could I, why did I???? I just don't understand!!!!!!!!!

Thank You for all your help

Do you understand about the addiction???

Just like a drug addict, you cared more about your next "fix" than you did about anyone or anything else...youobviously didn't care about the OW (or you wouldn't be here right now); you didn't care about your W's feelings, and you didn't care about your children and what your actions were doing to them.

It was ALL ABOUT THE DRUG. Does this make sense to you?

Now, this part is just as important, so please listen carefully:

This does not excuse your actions. All I am illustrating is your selfishness in only caring about how OW was making you feel.
Now, YOU need to figure out why that was more important than the feelings of all the people I listed above.

Why was getting your ego stroked the ONLY thing that mattered to you?

I also like Princess Meggy's suggestion above about the NC letter.

You might want to ask Jennifer about this on Thursday. It would be another step in showing your BW your sincerity.

before it usually ended with a fight and don't ever call me again or something of that matter....I meant it everytime, but one of us would call the other one to say goodbye because we didn't want to end on bad terms, then a text, then a phone call.
It's simply different because I do not want to talk to her...I do not want to see her.....

That relationship became like crack...I wanted nothing to do with it, I knew it was disasterous in every way shape and form, but just kept doing it.....I have learned now, that alot of the time it's because they both let me. Thinking about it that way just makes me even madder at myself....How could I????? I honestly truly love my wife and children and would do anything to show her that I will be a different man everyday for the rest of my life....But I'm afraid I hurt and betrayed her one to many times....I really hope some other husbands/wives that might still be doing this crap find and read this. All of you read the next paragraph VERY CAREFULLY!!!!!!

You have [b]NO IDEA what kind of damage you are doing and how much you will regret it once you come to your senses....The fact that your spouse is even here with you is a miracle after what you've done and if you're jumping back and forth or not coming clean about everything, you can only hurt them so many times before they will have NO CHOICE but to protect themselves and their own mental well being. When They do this and learn that they can do it themselves,will be ok without you, will be healthier and better off mentally not having to worry everyday if you're still hurting and betraying them, they are a good person despite everything you have done to make them feel like they're not, that they didn't deserve for you to continue to do these attrocities to them (NO ONE DOES). You will find yourself struggling to not only come to grips with what you have done, but you'll be ALONE with only memories of how badly you hurt the most important person in your life! My wife and I had so many good times, but all I can remember now
are the hideous things I have said and done to her in the past 16 months and the agony in her voice begging me to come home. It rings in my head as a constant reminder and it doesn't go away.
Stop what you're doing, be a man and admit you were a terrible husband to have even allowed it to start!!! Then start doing everything you can everyday for as long as it takes to make it up to her because if you don't one day you will tell her ok, I'm ready to try again and she will say no...and mean it!!! Then you get to find out how good you really had it when you spent everyday with someone that loved and cherished you!!!
Learn from my mistake!!!!!!!!!! [/b]

Not sure if she even cares that I write a no contact letter...I installed chaperone on my cell phone yesterday and when I asked for her phone to activate it so she could check where I was whenever she wanted, she said "no I don't want it on there, you can do whatever you want, be wherever you want."

I guess the only indication that there may be any hope at all is that we did talk for 3 hours last night, but I'm afraid the only reason is because she felt sorry for me and didn't want me to leave when I was that upset...I honestly don't think it was because she actually wanted to be with me. I'm not sure if you read my post from earlier, but when I left she did come back and open the door as I was walking to my car and said "I do love you...but that still doesn't change anything"...Probably just false hope on my part.

Nope. Uh-uh. It had nothing to do with THEM but EVERYTHING to do with you. It was your CHOICE to continue in your adultery. Sorry, don't play the blame game here, it won't fly.

You used the perfect analogy for your adultery with OW when you said "that relationship became like crack." We often refer to WS as crack addicts. What happens when someone is trying to recover from crack? They have to go through withdrawal and then they have to take extra precautions to remove themselves from ALL temptation, contact with suppliers, etc.

You probably are too late to repair this with your BS from what you describe, and that's really sad. It would be GREAT if you could get her to come here and let us help her work through this.

I still think you need to send a FORMAL no contact letter with OW. As it is, there's still a possibility that you and OW could reconnect with one phone call from you and your wife probably knows this.

I don't remember and I'm too lazy to go back and read it this afternoon, but was your OW married?

Too early to expect anything from her, ugottatry. At least she's still willing to talk to you. However, she is totally withdrawn emotionally, and has learned to "self soothe." Doesn't mean it's hopeless, but it DOES mean that if you can manage to woo her back, she will NEVER put up with any cr@p from you ever again.

She will be a MUCH stronger woman than she's ever been before, and even if she can forgive you, she will never forget what you're capable of (I speak from my own experience as a BW here). She will never write you a blank check again. You're good with that now because of the panic you're feeling, but without putting in place a serious list of "extraordinary precautions" to protect her, yourself and the marriage from your proven weaknesses, the drama and remorse of the present will become more of the same drivel you've given her in the past.

The changes you make must be forever.

Good luck winning her back.

RHW

UGT:

This thought and reponse here:


Your response? To KEEP TRYING and show HER with your ACTIONS that your going to do the right thing, going forward.

She doesn't want to install the locater thing in her cell phone? Copy the paper and send it to her. Just make a note, "heres the info, you can do it anytime you like."

She just might take you up on it.

Also, give her your internet passwords and other ways to SEE what you are doing.

Stop lying.
Be honest.

IN that three hour meeting, how often did you lie? Avoid a subject? Demure from answering? Change the subject?

Stop that. Just answer the question, and then expand the answer.

Wife asks: Did you go to XX State park and go to "our point"?

Bad answer: No, we never went there.

Good answer: Yes, we went there. At least 7 times. I drove and took our car. We took a picnic lunch three of the times. The other times we just took a blanket. One day it was really breezy and that's when the fender was dented on the car. A tree branch hit it. I told your before that a shopping cart did that.

Fill in more if she wants even more. Some Betrayed Spouses want all the nitty-gritty details. Some want the outline, and NOT the details. YOU ARE NOT THE ONE TO MAKE THIS DECISION.

SHE IS.

Good job with the HArley Appt

LG

I'm sorry if that came across as a cop out....Without question, I ultimately am to blame....NO is all it would have taken or simply not even placing myself in the situation that would have made mine and the OW meeting each other possible...I thank you and encourage you for calling me out...I don't even realize sometimes that what I say can still be a form of denial...Thanks!


No...She wasn't married. I have also given my wife all of my email account and password info as well as online access to all cell phone records....I told someone earlier I even put tracking on my cellphone....She has said she won't look, but I have sent it all to her anyways simply because whether she can forgive me or not, I want her to know it was the biggest mistake of my life and that I will be true to my word...Regardless!!!!

Thanks LG,

I have already given them to her and will email her instructions as soon as I'm done here....
I also emailed her the ad for the Harleys Home study course that lists to much has happened, you can't change the past, I will never get past this, you can't change who you are, I can never trust you again and others....I just don't want to push to hard and I'm sure it's a fine line. I was a bully for years and everything was always my way...I don't want to be that person ever again....I am working on my own also to address all of this and won't stop....

She doesn't ask me those kinds of questions AT ALL!!! Mostly statements...I told her how sad it made me thinking about what must have gone through her head and how sad she was at night having to put the kids down by herself with no help from me". Her response "Yeah while you and OW were out partying and having a good time"....I am so sad and sorry about all of this I literally cried the whole time I was there at the thought of what I've done to her....All I could tell her after that is that I was so sorry...I just don't know what else to do at this point.