I disagree with this. For me the gift itself doesn't have to be anything romantic, like i said earlier the best gift i have ever received from my H was the type of mascara i use because he took the time to NOTICE what type of mascara i use.

Well the starts with S part is always a given .

And as far as the flowers i agree with JoJo, i would not call my H a tight wad if he bought them on a corner, he took the time to THINK about me.

jojo, it would be like that with us, too, if H wasn't so adamant about NOT doing anything I ask for. He literally, on purpose, does not do something I want or need specifically because I mention it. The only way I have ever gotten him to do anything in 30 years is to start doing it myself. And then he steps in and does it because I can't do it well enough. But I get blamed for controlling his life when he 'has to' do all this stuff. Pretty sure he has OCPD, so I'm working on learning how to get around that.

But I get the point.

Isn't that when O&H and POJA comes into play? In a good relationship, you should be talking about everything as best friends, not adversaries.

Not sayin' it's easy, lol, but it sure would be a good goal to shoot for - being able to be honest all the time?

But isn't what you're describing an unhealthy relationship? Wouldn't that be a great part of your marriage to work on - being O&H with each other? As in 'when I bring ABC home for you because I want to make you happy, and you say I did someething wrong, I feel overwhelmed and sad. All I want to do is please you. Can you tell me what a perfect gift would look like to you so I can try to attain that?'

If she still doesn't help you, then she is only out to gain at your expense, and you could question why you accept that treatment.

That's sort of my point. I think its reasonable to assume that if I told ten men to go and find out what kind of mascara their wife likes and buy them that, I would guess only some wives would view it as a romantic gesture. Some would think its an odd gift, others would think its cheap, (especially if they were expecting something else), still others would think, jeez, I'm not even using that anymore. It all depends on their perception, what they make up about the event, the context.

And it would not be fair for a bunch of folks to jump on and say, I think that would be romantic, because you've already set the stage. Mental images of "thoughtful, caring, husband" poking around trying to determine that right mascara, dances through people's heads.

I would also suggest that had your H just gotten lucky, (i.e. he didn't notice a thing, just asked the person at the counter what's a good mascara), and he told you that, the actual gift (while not having changed) would now not be romantic. Or should he repeat the gift, buying it again for you on the next occassion, it would have lost its luster.

Its not that I think this is a bad thing, I merely offer it as a reason why men struggle to be "romantic." They can not control what the woman "makes up" about the gift, and this matters more than the actual gift. While men, tend to be less concerned about the context or the back story and more concerned about the item.

That's a shame. I actually pity your wife for not being able to enjoy something nice. It's a sad way to live.

I love flowers - I'm a big gardener, but it's winter here. My H will often pick up nice roses at the grocery store on his way home from work. He has learned that if he puts them in water on the way home they stay fresh longer. I appreciate his ingenuity - he's clever that way. I don't give a rats rear that they are not from the florist.

Like Jojo, I never thought to equate flowers to SF.

IMHO, it helps, but doesn't always "solve" the issue. I don't think of it as adversaries.

I think what frustrates a man about this topic is not so much that we often fail at being romantic, its that all the while that we are failing, our wives are expressing how easy it should be for us to be successful. LOL

Um umm. You don't get a pass on that because YOU are missing the point. This isn't about the 'right' gift, the one that would make your wife perk up and cover you in kisses.

It's about you being so much ABOUT your wife that you KNOW what would be the right gift.

Women usually know what to give their husbands because they.pay.attention to their husbands. Do you know your wife's SS #? I bet you she knows yours, if you guys share finances.

That's not a criticism, just more Men are from Mars talk.

If someone truly wants to be a good mate, she/he does the work to be involved in that person's life. To talk to them, ask questions, do with and for...just know what makes your partner tick.

Impossible. It is much like I can not KNOW what a random number will be. I may know the range of the possible numbers, I may know the probabilities (or range of probabilties) for each of the possible numbers, I may know what influences the probabilities for each of the possible numbers, but I can not KNOW what the number will be.

This is not to say that a woman's "wants" are completely random. They are not. It is to say that the number of variables that influence a woman's "wants" are so great and so volatile, that for all practical applications, they are random.

I would imagine an individual woman would say this is not so. That they are stable and predictable in there "wants". I can understand how they can see it this way. It is similar to how a steering wheel looks when one is driving a car at 60 mph. To the driver, the stering wheel is steady and constant and near motionless. But that is because the driver is "moving" right along with that steering wheel. They have no real sense that after a minute of driving, that steering wheel has moved a full mile away from where it was. But regardless of whether they have sensed the change, that steering wheel has still moved.


As allued to above, I would argue that this has less to do with their powers of observation and more to do with the lack of volatility in what they are observing. Are men not more predictable than women?


I don't think of it as a criticism. Although, I am not sold on the Men are from Mars stuff. I think much of this has less to do with an innate biological differences in men and women, but rather in how men and women typically learn to navigate through life.

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That sounds like you and your W need to talk about this. My H and I had the same problem but reversed.

He wanted to go to a florist and spend way too much money on Roses. I'm a simple girl and I prefer fresh cut flowers. You know, the bunches that are $9.99 or so at Walmart or the grocey store.

Now, sometimes I get roses and sometimes I get fresh flowers. But regardless of what I get, I'm always very happy and tell him so.

BTW ~ if you're giving something (flowers) to get something (sex) then of course she's going to be leary of getting anything from you.

RP,
I'm not so sure about your comments. I've been married 20 years and my H knows me pretty well. The things I like are very obvious. I always drop hints about what I would like. I keep a Amazon wish list. I would prefer my H takes the time to pay attention to this about me - get me the book, instead of the flowers. It shows me he loves me enough to pay attention to what makes up his wife. This wasn't always the case. In our 10th year of marriage I blew up at him because he still would order me the wrong coffee. I got so mad because I felt after 10 years of marriage he should know how I take my coffee. Sometimes its paying attention to the simplest details of everyday life of a woman. I believe men tend to overlook this. I also understand the Mars/Venus thing and that's why I drop hints because I know men need to be told or showed. My H cleans and puts things away all the time - I don't think he wants SF everytime he does it. The article is good but when there is built up resentment and frustrations it is going to be difficult for any women to be giving herself fully. That's why sites like this are so important in helping couples learn to communicate and understand each others need.