You know what? You all have gotten me fired up now too. It's the DAMN SYSTEM'S FAULT THAT MEN HAVE BEEN GETTING SCREWED OUT OF CUSTODY OF THEIR CHILDREN FOR YEARS.

I understand Pom's reliance on the system to help him get his children back because it's the only chance he has, but if it wasn't for the stupid sexist biased effed up system in the first place, Pom and I wouldn't have to walk on eggshells and watch our every move in hopes that some idiot judge will have mercy on us and let us see our children.

Who are THEY to tell me that the wife is the better parent by default? I have to turn into a damn private investigator and spend hours following WW and taking photos and documenting every speck of dust that falls the wrong way in order to have a chance at custody of my son.

I'm ready for a civil war now. Let's start the revolution RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW...ON MB!!

YOU know Da NUGE???!!!

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cool!!

Hmmmmmmmm........

What other secrets you keepin' from me?



Oh yeah, bit o' trivia:

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeears ago, the chick that later married my uncle...who passed in 2000...dated The Nuge for a short period of time. Just a short period of time, though. I never did hear the reason why she didn't continue to date him. LMAO!!

Ted Nugent = former adulterer - (he divorced his first wife in 1976 after a string of affairs with groupies...however, she died in a car accident in 1982 long before him marrying his current wife, Shermane in 1989. He had an affair on Shermane and an OC, but he appears to be repentent. They renewed their vows and Shermane wrote a book about overcoming adultery and the importance of marriage.)

Nugent "father of the year" ordered to pay child support for his OC

and a draft dodger =

I thought you libs liked draft dodgers? Didn't you support Bill Clinton?

I like his philosophy on hunting. Only kill what you are going to eat and always respect the animal. Reminds me of Native American philosophy on this. Many humans have discarded this. Not all humans/cultures have, thank goodness, but we can sure learn from the ones who still follow this philosophy.

Charlotte

Me too, Charlotte. I don't really care what he did in his past. My interest in him is his views on hunting, gun ethics, etc. We forgive and forget past wrongdoing all the time on this forum and in politics; I don't know why he would be held to a different standard.

ITA!!

Yeah, Teddy Boy is a darn good guitar player, too. If'n yuh like rock-n-roll and all...he's got some good BAWDY tunes!! LOL!! That's how I first learned of him. Didn't know about all the other good stuff like the hunting, gun ethics and his membership in Ducks Unlimited until later.

OK, I'm re-claiming my thread now!! Political debate is over for now.

We return to our normal broadcast.

Well, I realize after nearly becoming an OM myself (or becoming one, depending on the definition), that I need to set up some boundaries until I figure out which plan to follow for sure (Plan A, B, D).

One boundary for sure is to not talk to married women. duh. But they seem so willing to listen to me and my plight! Oh well. Too bad. But seriously, now that I think about it, I've had four married women express serious interest in me since I've been separated, two in person and two online. It seems like an affair epidemic out there.

I think it's prominent in my age group. When I went to my mandatory parenting class, being the geek that I am, I tallied what percentage of the class was under 40 and percentage was over 40 (judging my looks). About 72% were under 40 and 28% over 40. So, the good news is that maybe people over 40 are wiser about getting and staying married?

So, no talking to married women. I'll go ahead and add, no talking to any women at all until I'm divorced, EVEN if they are hot (joke from previous thread).

The harder thing will be trying to decide which plan to take. It's complicated because WW and I disagree on visitation schedules and any attempt at plan A may hurt my case if I attempt for more visitation time.

I honestly don't know what I want right now. It changes from day to day. I don't know how I'm going to decide whether to make the marriage work or not. I'm worried that WW is a serial cheater and does not respect vows since she's been married three times, cheating during at least two of them, and is blatantly pursuing a serious relationship with OM.

I may have to eat my words that I've always said "I will never divorce once I marry" if I decide to end it with WW. She apparently is in no hurry to finalize the divorce because she told me such in the halls of the court last week. She has no respect for the institution of marriage it would appear. How CAN I try to rebuild a marriage with a person like this? Yet I so vehemently oppose divorce. UGH!

I'm going to schedule an appointment with my marriage counselor and discuss it with him. My ecclesiastical leader thinks I'm better off without her..

It's been a few days since I posted here.

I've been trying to decide whether I want to Plan A,B, or D with WW.

WW has been very sociable with me since we got the temp custody agreement signed. When she drops our son off at my house, she lingers for at least a half hour to hour-and-a-half. I've been lingering at her apartment for an hour or so each time, just talking, nothing more.

We've been texting too, just friendly banter. I'm starting to have feelings for her again but I see red flags. I feel torn between plan D and plan A.

Some main points in my thinking: WW and I have a lot in common in many areas and we can talk for hours about things we like. She's funny, attractive, intelligent, etc. I can fall for her easily.

BUT, she cheated on me and she cheated on her first husband. She doesn't show remorse for cheating on me. The scariest thing I heard her say recently was "Falling in love with the opposite sex is a very natural thing to do." She said this when we were talking about her infidelity. I think she was justifying her actions and saying that she didn't mean for it to happen but since our relationship was so bad, she was ripe for this kind of thing to happen. She admits that it was wrong but I think she was being defensive.

Yet, Dr Harley concurs here when he says that under the right conditions, ANYONE is susceptible to an affair. I myself was recently pulled toward an EA but caught myself before it got too far, thanks in part to this forum.

I feel bad about the way I treated my WW at times when we were married. Pretty much any LB you can think of, I did it. I never hit her or anything physical, but I certainly wasn't as disciplined as I should have been when I let out disrespectful judgements and angry outbursts, etc.

Another thing that convicts me is that I viewed porn and MB'd occasionally while we were married. I don't know if she ever knew about it, but I'm sure she could tell indirectly. I don't do that any more because it is blaringly obvious how hurtful that is to the person committing that sin and those around him. So in reality, I have to accept that I committed adultery in my heart.

This is serious, and it makes me look upon my WW with more empathy and makes it harder to walk away from what might be a hopeless case.

But my question is this: if I hadn't LB'ed and adulterated in my heart, would I have prevented the conditions that helped my WW be susceptible to an A? I have to believe that if I followed the MB plan and met her ENs and avoided LBs that our marriage would be strong enough to prevent an A in the future.

So, there it is. I can take criticism. I know that a wise man says "thank you" when he is corrected. Ultimately, I know I must decide for myelf what to do. I have defaulted to Plan A during my indecisiveness and I think I've been doing a good job of it. Any thoughts? If not, it does help me just to journal here a bit. Thanks everyone.

Life around her is going to suck for her in a short time. She has already had hassles with OM. We kind of expect that.

Continue with the messages. I'm sure that an ice cream date will pop up.

My questions are - what happens in future. Can she control her anger towards resolving problems. Can she temper her need to walk out towards another guy when things get tough.

Can you maintain her moods when things get rough.

If you can deal with all these hassles - good luck (but I think you've got your hands full)

I've done a lot of contemplating and soul searching. I've taken an inventory of my own weaknesses and role in the breakup of my marriage. Here is what I've come up with so far.

It is true that my wife cheated on her first husband. She admitted this to me before we married. She felt that she had progressed far enough personally that she would never travel down that road again.

But she didn't realize how hard it would be to stay in a marriage relationship with a man who is addicted to pornography. I must look at myself honestly and accept the fact that pornography has had a negative impact on my ability to be truly loving toward my wife. My ways prevented me from doing a good job of meeting her ENs. My selfishness also left me prone to lovebust more than I should have.

I didn't even realize the effect of my subtle addiction until I read the posts of wive's who have husbands that participate in this bad habit. These wives feel worthless and devastated to put it mildly. Given my wife's history and own weakness, my behavior made the grounds fertile for her to fall into her own hell and repeat her own past mistakes.

I certainly don't justify her behavior and yes, I think it is worse than what I've done, but i have to wonder if she would have strayed had I worked harder on our relationship. Dr. Harley says that anyone will have an affair under the right conditions and I feel like I provided those conditions for my wife to give in to her own weakness.

Perhaps she won't want to change. I can't control her. But I can control myself and I vow to change my behavior. I've decided to make my own personal recovery my #1 priority and set aside initiating the finalization of our divorce. I feel that once I've overcome my own weakness for a prolonged period, I can make a more informed decision of what is best for my family.

If I can make this change and stay "sober" for a good period of time, and if at that time, my WW is still not interested in changing her own behavior, I would probably feel justified in ending our marriage permanently and moving on to a healthy relationship.

It's kind of embarrassing admitting my own wrong-doings here, especially when i feel like some of you have become like friends to me, but I hope you will still accept me and know that I am owing up to my own role in this and trying to do the right thing and be a better person..

You're a good man, E.

And a wise one too.

I commend you and wish you success. No matter which way your path takes you in the future, things for you can only be improved by what you are planning to accomplish.

tl

Erichh

It's a hard thing to even admit to total strangers!! Kudos to you my friend.

My WW and I went to counseling together for a similar issue....initiated by me approx 3yrs ago

erich, I know it's hard to do all this, but you know what I think? I think if I see two people side by side, and one proclaims to be a great person, he dresses great, looks great, is rich, has great charisma, the girls swoon all over him because he seems like the total package...and next to him is this quy who is quiet, educated, sincere, big-hearted, and responsible - but he has a problem in his past. Say that he admits what he did and also explains what he has learned from it and how he will be even better moving forward.

Which one would I be attracted to? If you say the former, you would be wrong. And I would (and do) express to my D18 that I hope she picks out the second guy, too. Because looks, money, all that don't mean squat in the day to day life we live. What matters is all in the mind.

And you seem to have what it takes in that area.

So don't be embarrassed. Be proud. That you have learned from mistakes, that you are humble enough to admit it, and that you are now the kind of person people will want to be with.

Best of luck.

erichh,

We all have our own flaws and bad habits. How bad was your problem?

Despite your "issue" there was no excuse for her to go outside the marriage.

Did she ever express anger over your habit? Was it a problem between you guys?

I used pornography and MB to self-medicate--to deal with stress and anxiety. I know that it is unhealthy because I have tried to go without and can't seem to do it for more than a month.

As far as frequency, I'd say on average once per week. But the main problem is that instead of working through problems with my wife I would self-medicate and sweep the problems under the rug... I think it also subtly bent my thoughts to objectify women to a certain extent.


I agree. I'm not excusing her behavior. For now I am just saying that I need to work on myself before I make a decision of whether to finalize the divorce or not and be ready for a healthy relationship.


Yes. I told her about my issue before we got married. She was very upset about it but married me anyway. We never really talked about it after we got married but she would make subtle comments about it indirectly that let me know that she suspected my behavior and was offended by it. She HATES that habit very much and is definitely not okay with it.

Would she have cheated on me if I didn't have this problem? I honestly don't know. In my heart I think things would have been different. But this much I do know: I believe that I need to get this problem in check before I can have what I consider to be a healthy relationship.

Thanks for not judging me and thanks for your encouragement.

I don't want to get too caught up in deciding whether I should stay with my wife or not at the moment. I just believe that for me to have a healthy happy relationship (whether with WW or another woman) I need to nip this in the bud regardless.

Time is on my side I think, because right now i need to document anything that WW does during our period of this temporary custody agreement before anything becomes permanent. So far, WW has been very kind and amicable toward me since we got the temp custody agreement signed. She has honored our agreement and has even let my step-son stay at my house twice now.

Consequently, WW and I have spent a lot of time talking during child exchanges. She stayed at my house for a couple of hours yesterday with me, my son, and step-son, and had dinner here.

I don't have any expectations from her regarding our marriage right now. I don't know if we should get back together if that becomes an option. But I definitely have inadvertently been meeting her need for conversation and haven't love-busted at all.

Why is masturbation unhealthy? Unhealthy would be doing it countless times daily, not once a week.

Charlotte

I agree....it's a natural function as a friend said to me even animals do it in the wild.....Self love isn't bad unless you do it to the extreme and basically get an addiction....but THAT much self lovin....*shudder* that would chaffe....Ice quick he needs Ice before he creates FIRE. The Fire extinguisher is out of juice.