So do I pursue these boundaries now? I don't see anything wrong with that but lord knows my brain is shot:

We follow the MB principles to a T. Treat it as the bible.

NC letter, MB style

Access to email and phone. Complete openness.

Complete honesty with each other. Tell me any time contact is made.

Filter everything we do through the question of how it makes the other feel. Selfishness got us here, time to be givers.

Emotional needs questionnaire.

OK, she came home drunk at 10:30 and flipped OUT. She's furious that I wrote another note to the Dude. She just went to his house to drop off keys. I told her that she would have killed the other person if the shoe was on the other foot. She said, "Yeah but that's me!!! But this is you being a controlling testosterone alpha male. (does this make any sense? Saying yes, if she did it, it'd be OK, but not me?!!) It must be nice being so pious and right all the time!!!! I'm always the A*shole!!!" She starts blaming me again for everything: I'm a controlling a*shole.

All our friends keep saying she's crazy and I keep defending her saying that this is typical affair behavior from what I've read. If I hadn't read this stuff, I would have thought she was crazy. Doesn't help that she's totally drunk. And driving around.

Starting to just get numb. I'm so tired.

Take it as the ramblings of a woman who is confused.

You guys really need to avoid alcohol right now. It's a bad idea.

Keep your cool. If she's drunk again, ignore her and ignore what she says.

You should certainly not let her drive in that condition. She'll kill someone.

I wasn't drinking. She got drunk after visiting the Dude, before she came home. I don't really have control of that. Same with the driving. I'm vehemently opposed to drunk driving.

She says she's moving out to her brother's apartment. Will come for the rest of her things. Said that she and the OM 'mutually' broke it off. She was implying that I screwed that up for her. It's like a script!

Amazing how quick the last few days just went down the drain. It's so excruciating. I don't think I did anything wrong by sending the Dude a final note asking him to stay away from my wife and family. I think she's still ga ga over him and she's using this as an excuse to sabotage our relationship so he'll take her back. I'm at a loss as to what to do next. Continuing Plan A sounds nauseating right now.

Hmmmmm,

Just had a phone conversation, initiated by her. Starts with, 'Please hug and kiss the kids'. Then talked about her seeing the kids... me saying she can visit them here anytime, or at her brother's or mom's. She expressing anger that I get to stay home while she has to leave. Anger that by writing the letter to the OM, I'm being controlling. Me saying that everything we've done is a choice, and I choose to stay at home. I choose to stay married. I choose to keep my family together. I choose to defend my family which is exactly what she would do in my shoes. I apologize for the mistakes of the past, but I choose to do something about it.

Then she starts softening up again and she just gets quiet and listens. This is the pattern, over and over. It's like we're repeating some dance. I thanked her for the wonderful birthday and for her efforts in reconnecting with me. Turned to a little bit of small talk about cooking (we always have that, at least). So, don’t know if she's still moved out or not, but at least we're not furious with each other. Oh wait, just said she'd pick up some groceries on her way home. Wowza.

They couldn't design a more insane roller coaster if they tried.

Zen, make sure if she comes back you make her agree to your terms FIRST - before she moves in.

And make sure that you add to that list that you will BOTH go to professional counseling for at least 6 months - or fewer, if you choose to counseling with the Harleys.

Do not let her come home without agreeing to that, ok?

OK. Just talked to a friend who talked to the OM last night. Where my wife showed up. She has been trying to keep their relationship alive even when I was in the peak of delusion about our recovery. It's been a lie.

Plan B or Plan D.

I'm so sorry. What do you think will happen if you pack her stuff and have it waiting outside for her? I've seen a couple instances here where that's all it took to wake them up. If nothing else, you'll save some dignity.

Wow Zen. Read your entire post this morning. Whew...that stinks.

You have been through he(( and back...and then back to he(( again. Sucks. You have been amazing through all of this with your resolve, your stamina, your calm as a cucumber-ness.

She's still deep in the FOG. Hang in there brother. Will post more later...D.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh! Well she came home last night and I gave her the "I'm done, there's nothing left" speech. I was already headed down the Plan B path. I told her I would still like our marriage, I would accept nothing less than NC, following the MB principles, access to phone and email, accountability for time, etc, but that I can't take another fall.

She agreed to all of them. We talked at length about the effect of the affair, what happens if we divorce... Long talk.

In the end I still feel like I'm convincing her to do this. In fact I said something to that effect, and she said she needs convincing. I told her I'd give her the pep talk everyday til I'm blue in the face. I'll walk the walk and talk the talk, but eventually she'll have to pull her own weight.

She called the Dude up in front of me and said, "I'm staying home to work on my marriage. Please don't contact me anymore."

Then erased his phone number and messages, saying she didn’t remember his number.

So I know this is all symbolic, and again, I may not be much further along than I was a couple days ago, but I guess I'm still in the fight. She said that the last few days were feeling pretty good with me and she could see how we could reconnect, and she was having no anxiety and sleeplessness, and enjoying my touch again. She said it was the letter to the Dude that sent her over the edge again. I told that our recovery can’t just hang on us getting pissed at each other occasionally, because it's GOING to happen. It's going to be hard and not fun at times.

Anyway, the roller coaster continues. Admittedly, I'm pretty weary, but, again, hopeful.

Oh, and I had already packed her things and put them in the car the night before. She took off, then wanted to come back yesterday. Ugh. Now she's back and the withdrawal depression is setting in hard. Here's goes again - setting myself up for another fall!!!

Hang in there. Does your wife have an alcohol problem? Sounds like she does. Drinking and driving indicates it to me.

You are doing fairly well. Every time there is contact for "closure", returning keys, returning the stuffed animal he gave her, to check on his well-being, blah, blah, blah, you need to contact him. Yes, she will get angry, but chances are good that he will move on to someone else's wife.

So don't trust her at all until there is verified no contact over a long period of time.

Note from my wife this morning:

"oh, honestly, I'm hating this. just hating it. "

Oh boy, withdrawal hitting HARD. I'm in for a bumpy road. I gotta be ready for her to head out the door again.

Hey, at least she is sharing that with you. IMO, that's huge.

Yep, bumpy road to be sure. Hang in there brotha!

Question for you. Not that I want you to give up your location, but what size of city do you live in? The reason I'm asking is for future possible "running in to the OM" situations.

WW and I lived in small rural towns for 15 years (I'm talking ~15k) The "bar scene" was pretty close knit and you saw the usual suspects over and over again. Your WW working in a bar is probably going to "run into" the OM here and there.

And every time she does it will be back to square #1 with regard to withdrawal.

Have you thought about moving to another city / state? I know in this economy that's a frightening thought. Just throwing that out there as I've heard it in other posts. The last thing you want it for your WW to be accidentially running in to the OM here and there. Roller-coaster....UP...down...UP...down...

I'm not sure. I feel for you my man. I consider myself lucky in that both DDays with my WW, the affairs were pretty much over. There was no fence-sitting. Oh, there was terrible ups and downs for A#1 (14 years ago) because I didn't know about OM and just kept instinctively Plan A-ing for 9 long months. Lord knows how I got through that without mb.com principles. Lucky I guess.

You are in a difficult place because your wife is still in the fog. Even if NC has been established you can expect her to break it, and soon. Hang in there. Keep posting and BE STRONG! Your children need a strong and devoted Dad. Because mom is crazy-alien-infested-fog-speaking-affair-addict right now.

Hang in there...

Don't trust that she's truly going to end contact. A real gesture would be to quit her job and send resumes out to other gyms to work at.

Keep your chin up. This must be a horrible thing to deal with. I never really experienced have a fence sitting wayward. I didn't fight or give things enough time. I commend you for hanging in there.

Just keep in mind that everything will be ok no matter the outcome. One of the greatest things a BS can come to grips with is that life will be ok without the WS and THEN actually seeing it happen.

It took a few years for me, but I'm happy with my life now and things didn't work out.

All I want to tell you is that have hope for the future, no matter what happens.

I knew from the tone of the communication today that she was headed out the door again. Sure enough, I got home, and there she goes. Projecting everything on me. She even said I was trying to use the kids against her. The audacity!?

Um, I think I'm done. I definitely had that peaceful feeling a bit today about just moving on. I think I will. Gotta go visit an attorney.

{{{Zen}}}

Be sure to tell her that you letting her have what she wants. Tell her that you are seeing an attorney, and that you can't make her part of this family if she doesn't want to be. Do not let her come back. You can no longer be Mr. Needy. If she wants you. Let her earn you. You are worth it. She thinks she is in withdrawal now. Wait till you turn your back on her. Don't put yourself and you kids through this again. When she tells you to kiss the kids for her. Tell her you don't do anything for her anymore. HARD LINE. JMHO

I just told her that I'm kind of relieved. She can take the kids for the weekend.

I am relieved. Starting to worry that I was fighting for something I'd regret winning.

I'm sure I'll feel differently in five minutes.