Moved to gq2 by request

She came back home last night...I told her not to come unless she wanted to repair the marriage. Prior to that she was staying with her sister. But it was more like "honey I'm home" rather than I'm ready to make a commitment to this relationship. I think what made her want to be home was that I finally told my parents who live near us. I think she sensed the ripple in the force, and knew if I told them that leaving her would be that much easier. She probably wants to make sure they see her car here.

She thought they were going to fire her at the clinic job, but apparently she convinced them to put her on probation. They are now monitoring phone & e-mail records.

The hospital job where #2 works called her today, HR wants to meet with her. My guess is that they won't do anything. But the HR lady told me that they try to keep people that are dating on separate shifts for risk management. And that she would notify their respective supervisors.

What drew the two of you together.

Clearly, she appears to be a lot more "sociable" than you. Can you meet that need.

For the love of carrots! What is WRONG with these people? They arent dating they are having an extramarital affair !!

Yes, I did that well until she went back to school, and to be honest that is where we probably started going bad, we spent less time together when she was in school, and I started withdrawing socially as she started withdrawing at home. I will always take 50% of the responsibility for the marital problems, but none of the affairs.

Thanks JustKim, you put that well and that is what I told corporate at the hospital, thanks to you.

EDIT: Also, my mother introduced us, they worked together. And prior to school I was always there at social functions.

Wow! Just saw your thread and I agree you are the poster child for exposure. VERY nicely done. I wouldn't have done the Friendster thing (at least not posing as WW, because that's dishonest and smacks of vengeance) but what's done is done and overall you've made spectacular progress.

I personally find OuchThatHurts' advice to frequently run counter to MB and I think he/she is too quick to recommend leaving the marriage. Read all the input, see how it meshes with MB concepts, and then make up your own mind - not that I think you have any problem with that Just sayin'.

I agree the other posters have brought up a very good observation with regards to the fact that you've been married a very short time and your WW has already had two affairs of which you are aware. Nobody would fault you if you decided to leave the marriage, especially with no children involved.

However, it is generally considered a good rule of thumb not to make any big decisions immediately following a traumatic event, such as death of a loved one, receiving a doctorate degree, or learning of an affair. Give it six months if you can... you can always file for divorce later. You will know after about six months whether or not your WW has what it takes to learn from this mistake and develop good marriage skills.

You are NOT ready for Plan B. Plan B has to follow a stellar plan A. During this time you need to be examining your role in the marriage thus far. What are your wife's top ENs? How good were/are you at meeting them? What LBs have you committed? Have you successfully eliminated them or are you still struggling? These are things that you do in order to learn to be a better spouse and to attract your wife back to the marriage.

Plan A does not, however, mean being a doormat and following her around like a puppy. Take this time to decide what you personally require in order to move forward in the marriage. Complete and total honesty from WW? What does that look like to you - key logger on the PC with reports mailed to you? GPS on the car so you know where she goes? Agreement to swap cellphones whenever you request? Attending a MB weekend and doing all the followup homework? Don't speak of all this to your WW yet, she's not ready. This is for YOU, so you understand what YOU need and so you have a game plan for your own healing and moving forward.

Again, absolutely spectacular job on the exposure. Tell yermomanem that a complete and total stranger said "Hey, y'all's kin is one awesome strong feller."

Thanks for all of the kind words and sound advice. I think you vocalized what I have been feeling about it being too soon to make any big decisions. Keystroke logger is still undetected, e-mail and phone monitored at job #1, agreement has been reached to only work job#2 2x/per month, NC letters have been sent. Whether I am getting the full truth right now?? Who Knows?? She does express regret and commitment to this marriage as well as agreement to seek marriage counseling.

Sidenote: Are there MB trained counselors in major areas?? Would I be better off with phone counseling followed by MB weekend?? A third party is definitely necessary for me.

But just like everything else, Plan A is following script. She does not want to talk about it much, and I have been doing my best not to bring it up. Very difficult, because as you mentioned, my needs right now are radical honesty and I want to know that she realizes how big of a deal this is. I also struggle with wondering if she could ever value the marriage and be trustworthy.

As far as following Plan A, how will I know she is ready for counseling and true reconciliation? Or, I guess I mean how will I know when the fog lifts??

As far as my shortcomings that could have led to this, here is the nutshell version. She was in school since shortly after we got married, plus working 2x per week (12 hour shifts). I became frustrated with her lack of attention and appreciation at home, which led to me withdrawing socially. We quickly became almost strangers. We are both very stubborn and had gotten into a rut that neither of us seemed willing to make the first move to get out of. She graduated and things did not change, because she was now in an EA.

Edit: I definitely hear you on the Friendster thing, but it turned out to be the best thing I did. Enormous pressure from friends and family with that exposure. But I did struggle with that one because it did smack of revenge.

DrS

Again, absolutely stellar job on exposure!

RE: counseling and MB weekend - I've had zero luck in finding any counselors that are at all familiar w MB concepts. Phone counseling w/ the Harleys was just as effective for us and I would *highly* recommend the MB weekend. It gives you a huge jump start into the recovery process.

In the meantime, it might be a good idea to download the emotional needs and love busters questionaires found on this site and get started there

Best of luck to you. You are doing wonderfully.

You can try this link for finding a counselor near you that follows MB concepts: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/counselors/

If nothing pans out there, I'd recommend the weekend and maybe telephone counseling with the Harleys.

You probably won't see the fog lift and the commitment. Usually it's not like a switch - though sometimes it is. But you'll see her become less closed off, less resentful, more concerned about your well-being and your healing, more willing to talk.

She's got a wretched track record, so you may not see any of those things. She may not be capable of putting her spouse's needs before her own. She may not desire to change herself and learn to do that.

For now, just do your part, invite her to do hers, and observe her. Eventually your path will be revealed and your decision will be evident. Not easy, but evident.

Thank you Just Kim,

For the right now, are the above steps missing anything?? We have done the questionnaires also. At this point I kinda feel like "Is this it?"

Even though WS says she is remorseful and wants to work on the marriage, I have been following plan A recommendations. Mainly due to the fact that we did have problems prior to this and I just want to correct on my end. But, it just seems that I am still in limbo. I figure I will wait a while on counseling, keep intelligence measures in place and see what happens??

Will there be a time in the future where talking about this becomes easier for WS? I guess what I mean is that long-term happiness and willingness to stay in the marriage on my part will require:
1) Realization of WS as to the enormity of this situation. Both the pain she caused me, our families and true commitment to work on our marriage.
2) I feel like I want "just compensation"...but what is that?? Maybe the love bank balance to be restored would be a good analogy. Other than NC letter and compliance, what is "just compensation"?
3) Radical honesty at all times.

Does the sense of emotional and sexual exclusivity ever return for BS??

bump

Will there be a time in the future where talking about this becomes easier for WS?

Your marriage depends on this, so "easier" is not the point.


Does the sense of emotional and sexual exclusivity ever return for BS??

Yes. It took a few years, but yes.

Just compensation can never happen.

Read Believers thread on "just compensation". A betrayed spouse will always take the load -just like Jesus on the cross - However we do not crucify Him twice.

One of you must contribute to the restoration of the marriage and place all pride behind.

Can you do this. Will she place her pride behind.

Maybe you can explain that you are not an expert in rebuilding marriage and that a marriage builder weekend course can help.

Let this wait until her withdrawal is clear.

A MB weekend sounds like a great idea, especially if she's interested in the idea.

For now, I think your W is likely deep in what is referred to as "the fog". She is at this juncture not likely to be able to comprehend the pain that she has inflicted on you and is only able to focus on her own pain.

This is where, in my opinion, early intervention with the Harleys can help you. First, a stellar plan A by you to restore some of your W's love bank ( and yes, it IS horribly unfair that YOU have to be the one to do this) followed by 'trauma recovery' for you.



Dr Harley explained 'just compensation' to me as having a terrific marriage I suppose what that means is you want a happy, restored marriage with a committed, transparent spouse.


Yep. I hear you on this one. Hard to accomplish though, particularly if you are married to someone who has a hard time with conflict. It can be done, of course but with alot of hard work.




This varies from person to person but for me, its been nearly 3 years post d-day and I dont have that feeling back yet. I dont know that I ever will. I havent exactly been the poster child for recovery. Like most BS's on this site, early on, I thought we were flying through recovery and were WAY ahead of the curve. And, like most BS's on this site, that ended at about 9-12 months.

Thanks for all of the kind and helpful replies....

MB weekend sounds like a definitely good idea. Also, there are two councilors listed on this website in my area. That is a good thing.

MB weekend would be great for you. Is your W receptive to this? Are you making any progress?

(((bump)))

Dr. Scott--can you give us an update? How are things going with you and WW? Any progress?

Hi Dawn,

Yes, overall there has been progress. NC has been established and I have hidden monitoring measures in place. She has resigned from her hospital job. Things between us have gotten less combative and I feel like she is trying as best she can to meet my needs, however; there has been the onion skin truth revealing, but in the last week or so, she has gotten to the point where she is pretty frank with me, as opposed to being withdrawn. I now realize she is in withdrawal.

The problem with me is that now that the initial shock is over, I have been pretty depressed. I have been running and trying to stay active, which helps some. I am against anti-depressant meds for myself. She is open to counseling/MB weekend....I just haven't moved on anything. I am having a hard time putting one foot in front of another right now.

Progress is great...any progress.

I know that it is hard and the depression is rough to deal with. May I ask you, what kind of dr. are you? Just wondering why the comment about anti-depressant meds for yourself? Not trying to pry but just curious.

Withdrawal lasted a very long time for me and actually after almost 6 months I'm still trying to get out of it. I'm on the tailend I believe but it does last a while.

I do understand your depression. Staying active as you mentioned will be a great help with that. You should go ahead and schedule the MB weekend if you WW will commit to it.

Have you gotten any of the books or programs offered? Like the home study program with the books and CD's? That may be a good place to start. And, the questionaires, etc. that you and WW could both do.

Of course, it IS your decision whether or not you want to stay and try to work on it but it sounds like you're resolved in doing that. I respect you for that.

AND, you will get tons of support by posting here. It has been a while since you've posted but the support system here is extraordinary. It will at least give you an outlet to vent or just get advice...
Keep us updated. Good luck to you.