You're doing great.

Don't forget that if you are ever to get your M back, he will have to hit rock bottom. The more you DON'T help him, the faster the end will come.

Priceless! Thanks Cat. I am practicing stop, breathe, choose so I rarely bite back these days, and I really mean rarely.

I think he is starting to understand that I have changed and that I will be okay without him and it scares him. If I had a dollar for everytime he said he's not sure if I will still be around by the time he has fixed his problems...

I never addressed it and it drove him mad, internally.

Thank you both for validating where I am at. I'm still a beginner!

WH just called and I thought it was to talk to the kids so I kept quiet. They didn't want to talk (eating dinner, it's 5:30pm) so he hung up and called my mobile.

He wanted to know DD's date of birth. I commented that he can't be serious and he said he had a mental blank. He confirmed DS's birthday, same birthday as OW just 19 years apart and then said thanks and hung up.

Sheesh. This is harder than I thought.

I just read the paper and a family of 4 perished in the fires. Mum, dad, 3 year old Jorja and 8 month old Alexis. Their cousin wrote that they had been strapped into their car seats to flee the fire and didn't even make it out of the driveway. The cousin's last comment in the article was "People are so precious. We need to hold our loved one's close".

I feel so sad. Oh, and tonight when we got home, I can smell smoke.

I'm crying inconsolably and it's not about the fires.

WH came by tonight after the kids were in bed. He brought them a phone to call him directly on and my divorce papers to sign. We semi-argued and then over the phone. I told him I didn't want to divorce and would not fill out the separation date and lie.

He started to threaten my job, surprise surprise and I stayed cool and calm but was very nervous. I stayed strong and caught myself on the way to escalating my voice and well before he would have noticed. I never got upset or angry or cried or begged or anything.

He is going to send me his visitation list and give me the name of his IM because he never wants to speak to me again. I said that's no problems, please send the details through.

I am sad that we are at that stage again. I just don't understand. Why now? Why is he back to blaming me 100%? Why does he have to tell me everyone on his side thinks I'm terrible for what I've done to him? Why does he say he will tell the kids what a bad wife I have been? Apparently it's because I treated him so badly last night and I'm a disgrace. I told y'all what I said and it wasn't that horrible or anything close. I don't understand.

I really wanted to save my marriage, but he's an a$$ so much of the time and I don't get long enough to just be ok.

I hope he really does plan B me because I could really do with the break.

I feel sick.

He told me he's not divorcing me to run to OW and if I think that I am an idiot.

I told him I wouldn't sign the papers without seeing my lawyer but that was a can of worms I shouldn't have opened either.

Would you believe he put our wedding date wrong? He had us married a year earlier.

Gotta go, I keep crying on my keyboard.

2 - the only reason I was able to say "I don't need to be married that badly" was that I meant it - I was DONE. I had enough support to stand up to the abuse. Quietly. Dignified. Softly.

He's back into his angry abusive stage again. This is a cycle. Go back and read this thread. Mark the dates of the cycle and notice if they are evenly spaced. Identify if there's any "marker" behavior that you engage with him that triggers it - I noticed SF being a trigger this time.

In the future, don't do this again!

He's been due for a crisis creation for a while - his way of stirring you up and doing some crazy-making.

His behavior has not become more accountable. His anger-management experience so far has not helped him identify this sick behavior. And it is not your place to do so - it will endanger you.

Truly dear, have you had enough of this?

Then help him through the divorce process and get it done. Call the cops - get a restraining order before he hurts your career and ability to support your children again.

And remind yourself that any time you start to think he's Mr. Wonderful with the kids, this is the honeymoon stage after a major abusive cycle - it's just another phase of the bigger picture of your relationship with an abuser.

Until he owns it all - including the crazy making, and takes precautions, doesn't ask you baiting questions that he already knows the answers to (being around OW professionally and around you?) then keep your distance and get the restraining order and if you have to call the cops!

Hi 2M2l

The name of the game your h is playing is called yanking the chain. He needs to feel connected and in control. You are correct when you say he senses that you are drifting away from him and are starting to enjoy life without him . He does'nt want you to be happy without him so he figures out a way of jerking you back into a state of high anxiety thus spoiling yet another day of your life .

Colour in a square on your calendar to remind you of the level of anxiety to which you responded to his phone calls . .BTW this week full moon was on Wednesday in OZ.

I am absolutely sure that he has no intention of acting on his threat to divorce. I have every expectation that he will go into Mr Nice Guy mode and in a couple of days will be in plan A again with no further mention of the D.Google info on cycle of abuse, Wikipedia has an interesting entry.

Plan B for him sounds like a really good idea to give you a break away from the constant crunch of eggshells under foot.

The bushfire situation puts a lot of things in perspective we still have a lot to be thankful for.

Best Wishes

Why now? Why is he back to blaming me 100%? Why does he have to tell me everyone on his side thinks I'm terrible for what I've done to him? Why does he say he will tell the kids what a bad wife I have been? Apparently it's because I treated him so badly last night and I'm a disgrace. I told y'all what I said and it wasn't that horrible or anything close. I don't understand.

Because, as everyone has said, he is back in the abuse cycle - manipulate manipulate manipulate.

If you could get out of him the 'weaknesses' he thinks of when he thinks of you, it would be all the things that he pulls out of his a$$ when he's trying to guilt you into pulling you back into his circle of control.

Aside from confirming your legal protection, I have two assignments for you. First, go back and copy your thread from the first day; print it out; with a marker highlight everything your H has said or done. Then just sit down at one sitting and read all his BS from start to finish. Better yet, ask your friend or mom or some such to come over and read it out loud to her. See what she says.

Two, go to the library and pick out some books on abuse and sit down and read them - EVEN if you've already read them. You have whole new perspective - and strength - now.

Thanks Kayla-Andy, Myopia and Catperson. We're officially back in the Honeymoon phase.

He moved quickly into Tension Building last night and into Acting Out by 9am and Honeymoon by lunchtime. It was a busy 24 hours.

I bluffed him last night when he called at 10pm and told him that he hadn't deleted everything off the phone he gave DD and I had seen some of the messages and knew the other secret number. He was mad and quick to tell me that the phone was DD's property and I had no right. It was his personal life, he didn't owe me anything etc. He stayed mad but didn't go crazy. We were able to agree to divorce, plan B (my terminology) and I said I had no interest in contacting him so it suited me fine.

I also told him he didn't need to explain anything to me, we had a good M for a while, 2 beautiful children and were probably not meant to be married for life. He told me we were and it was my fault we are in this mess etc.

Then, at 9am today he called and asked me for a donation bucket for the fires and to bring DD's phone to him. I said I didn't have time today and besides, he had asked for no contact with me and I thought it was a good idea.

He escalated about me not trusting him and I said I have many pieces of the puzzle now and it all points to a PA and I don't know why he has to keep lying. I said the A is not the problem now, it's the lying and I cannot and will not be blamed for everything going wrong and put up with the lies. The conversation went on for 10 minutes so I am paraphrasing alot, but I did stay cool and listen to him gaslight me again with more lies.

He started to threaten me and told me that he was going to dish out as much pain to me as I had to him. I told him to ring his counsellor and explain how he was feeling right now, that he had to get help and I wasn't going to continue to put up with his intimidation and threats and live in fear of violence. I can't remember what his answer was to that, but I politely and softly said goodbye and hung up.

He called 3 more times to make sure I was ok and each time he became softer and calmer. He even fessed up to quite a few truths that I knew he'd been lying about. I know there are a gazillion more, but it doesn't matter. He wasn't happy about me not caring but I don't. KA, I really feel ok about not living this life anymore. I truly have had enough of the abuse cycle and unless he seeks help, I am not interested.

He tried so hard to tell me how he sees the future and that he wants to be married to me and wants to make it work. He sees that I was terribly hurt by his lies and secrecy and his intentions with OW in the beginning were not for friendship but he never crossed the line - except for in thoughts. We were having problems and she listened and he liked feeling admired and loved.

Hmmmm.

I stayed aloof and non-committal and said we'll see what happens.

On his last call this afternoon he suggested he come with me to my client's theatre screening tomorrow night. I had asked him last week and he'd said no. He said it could be our first date and a chance for him to show me he can treat me right and give me a new beginning that I deserved.

He is off to work and called tonight to speak with kids and say goodnight. He told DD to tell mummy that he loves me very much. He called me back and said, well, what about us? I told him tomorrow was our first date so lets just take it slowly.

He said that he just wants me to relax about OW and he will prove to me that nothing is happening, did happen, will ever happen and he wants to make everything up to me and give us a chance at happily ever after where I will never again have to fear him growing apart from me. He told me he's been a complete a$$ and is so sorry for how much hurt he has caused me and
and said he never wants to put me in that situation again.

So, where am I on this?

Cool. Calm. Sensible.

I am not jumping into any decisions. I do not want him to move home. I love when he accepts responsibility but I am not blind to it being part of the cycle anymore. I do want him to go through the anger management course and to see if we can make it through 2 full moons/SF without anymore triggers, then 3 cycles, 6 etc.

I would love this to be the truth and part of me wants to jump in and surrender but it's a really small part these days. I really have come a long way and am not reacting anymore. Definatley time to dust off the books and re-read, thanks for the suggestion.

Thank you for reading and for your advice. I am so glad it was over in 24 hours. I hate the abuse cycle but it has a name, it's on wikipedia and it's got a picture so I know it's not all my fault. LOL.

I forgot to add that he also mentioned that he wanted to make it work with me for the children too. And, he thinks that if we can be honest, learn to trust each other and start spending all our spare time together, and make a fresh beginning, we'll have a chance. Only a month or so ago he said there was no hope for recovery and he could never fall in love with me and wouldn't consider trying.

I know these are small cherries in the large scheme of things, but it seems like he doesn't go negative anymore and only hits zero occasionally and for a much shorter time.

I am hoping that he is making an effort and these are actually signs of improvement. Time will tell if the fog is clearing...

Have you identified the cycle trigger? Have you identified the cycle frequency?

Hi KA,

Not yet. WH is coming over today to be with the kids and I will have to be at work to print out the threads and match it with my diary. He found the one I had at home before Christmas and I don't want him to find something again, especially now.

He also triggers when I catch him out on something he has been hiding from me. But I guess that is just someone who is hiding something, not unusual to be a trigger!

Well, it's the end of the weekend (9:30pm Sunday night) and I feel in a better position again.

<Friday>

I have been aloof as far as my committment to our relationship and hope for the future over the past couple of weeks. It has brought him closer to me and I wanted to show him a plan A side that hoped for R and believed it existed so I thought I would buy a card or write him a note for valentine's day. Do you know that it took me two days to find the love. It was buried so deeply.

I never wrote the words I love you, and just found some words of affection about things he still does that comes from H, not WH..

Here's one of them...The pride you take in your work, your home and your cars and the enormous success you have experienced through buying and selling BMW's.

I know it doesn't sound like much, and the other's that I wrote were not really any deeper, but the point I had to capture was that I could still offer words of affection. It was so hard, but I did a horrible plan A, reckless plan B and now in plan C. I know that OW will be filling his lovebank otherwise so I had to let it show in me.

<Saturday>

I have moved on from this M and it wasn't apparent until I thought about reconcilation and if I still wanted it and had it in me. He argued with me on Saturday at swimming. I had left my cell phone in the bag and whilst I was showering he looked at it. It had messages saved in there from the past month including last messages to OW and messages I sent to WH and some of my friends. He took it all personally that I was hanging on to them and therefore not ready to move on for us.

Ugh.

So, I told him I had things to pick up and will see you tonight. We had arranged that he would have visits with the kids and I would be elsewhere. He asked me to come for coffee and got the kids to ask me and I said I'd let him know. I ended up going after my errands but he told me I wasn't allowed to contact OW or any of his friends again etc. I had enough, so I left.

Got home and he apologised! I got busy at the other end of the hosue and my sister arrived to babysit and we went to the theatre.

It was called Travelling North and was a kooky play about a second chance at love late in life. It was fantastic.

Loved this line when the lead actor died - "please thank Francis for all of the happy years she gave me, and please apologise for all of the miserable one's I gave her". I cried. WH noticed the line too and we chatted about the play. Francis' son-in-law cheated on his wife with a sub-standard model and the chatter about that was priceless. WH didn't move during that scene.

We got home, had a snack and I went to bed. I brought a doona and pillows out to the couch for him and said goodnight.

He came into the bedroom about 20 mins later and asked if he could use the bathroom. I woke up this morning and he was in bed with me. Really don't remember him sneaking in but I got up and got busy with the kids and didn't mention it.

<Sunday>

He said he had a really great sleep.

He told me he is sick of having really unclean clothes.

He misses eating home cooked healthy meals.

Thanked me for dinner, theatre.

We were talking about the fires and he said he had thought of a day trip to Marysvilled but if he called me during the fires I would have been who with, why etc.

I told him it really doesn't matter. He doesn't owe me any explanations. He tried to explain but left it alone when I didn't look up from what I was doing.

He had to go to work this afternoon so walked back in after the above comments and came up and thanked me again for everything and kissed me on the cheek.

I didn't do or say anything.

40 minutes later he sent a text saying thank you for breakfast, theatre, card etc and that it was really sweet of me. He worked with OW today but called me when he was there and on his way home, I think to prove to me that they were not together. I didn't ask anything or comment on anything. Kept it light and non-confrontational.

He is very mopey and feeling sorry for himself. Just sent me a message to talk about the fires.

He told me on Friday that he loves having intelligent conversations with me and never got that from OW. She doesn't get the fires and doesn't get life and the band all think she is quite shallow. Hello, she's 20 years old.

We have an invite to a birthday part for DD's friend and his dad. I told WH cos it's his visit day. He told me he would take the kids there. He called me today to ask if I would like to come with them. I said that sounds nice, I'll let you know.

So, I'm sleeping happily on my own tonight and feeling great. He is still making changes, small ones, but radical when I think of the muck I've been living in.

Still one day at a time! IC on Tuesday. Yay.

2M2L...

Please don't go through this again...

He is just baiting you again...

And again...

And you keep falling for it.

What is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

He needs to work on himself and only approach you when you and others (because you cannot be trusted to judge how safe he is) are sure he will not hurt you again.

I do get that Karmasrose but with small children and a pro-abusive WH I am in the unfortunate situation of trying to please everyone.

As weird as it sounds it is not history repeating because I feel like I am changing. I have a really long road ahead, but I am not accepting WH into my life as my H. He needs to qualify for that honour and my expectations on that are very high. Even he is talking 6 months plus before he thinks he would be ready.

We haven't discussed R, just the home loan and he mentioned coming home in 6 months and maybe I wouldn't want him back. I just agree.

He called this morning and I picked him up from the crash repair shop and dropped him in to the city. The BMW is our car so technically it is for me too and will mean we can sell sooner. I had asked him to confirm the lift last night but he said no. This morning he changed his mind which annoyed me, but I said last night if he changed his mind to call. Must fix stronger boundaries on my time!

He was pleasant and thoughtful and offered extra help around the house and with taxes. I just said it would be fine, that I can manage. I don't want to appear dependent on him. He asked what I would do with the house, I told him if we D I will sell so I don't know what to do right now, but might refinance to buy more time in the current economic climate.

Limbo is a shocking game.

Anyway, it's a new week and I'm ready.

He apologizes when you stand up to him. You don't stand up to him, he treats you worse. Part of the game.

Is he in IC?

Agreed.

He rang them 3 weeks ago and said he was on a waitlist for the anger management group.

Trouble is, nothing has happened since. I asked him about it 2 weeks ago but it was a LB and I haven't asked since.

He knows I am afraid of him and his temper and that he needs help.

Is there a way I can bring it up without it being a LB or DJ or do I need to leave it up to him again and hope and pray?

2M2L-



How is this an LB? How is asking him if he followed up on something he said he would do an LB? Unless it was the tone you used with him, then this is more of the same. If he doesn't like something-even if it's reasonable-then he uses anger and his words to control you and get you to back off because he doesn't really want to change. He wants you to go back to the way things were.



I'm sure he knows that you are afraid of him and his temper and he also knows that YOU want him to get help, but I don't think he believes HE needs help.

The thing is that with an abuser, you never know what might be an "LB" or a "DJ". It will change depending on what he wants and feels he needs to do and say to get control again.

Karmarose is right about this:

and this

Having three small children should be the biggest reason why you won't let him into your life until he has shown through his actions that he has changed. You don't want them to grow up thinking that this is the way they should be in their relationships. They are the ones who will pay the most if you don't stop letting him play this game with you.

I have seen this with my bf and my sister. Please listen to what others are saying to you.

Actually, he has said that he wants the girl that he met in 2000 and the one he married in 2002.

The problem with that is that I was someone who was so loved and wanted and completely untouched by his infidelity. That didn't happen until late 2004 and I know that I haven't been the same since.



Yes, he has his moments of clarity but they are brief. I haven't seen the lifechanging rock bottom moment and it's so close to the break out and fight level so he never actually hits it.


I get this but don't know how to make it happen. He panics when I pull away and hates it when I am around him. I wish I had some breathing space and I wish he would get help.

He is filling out the EN survey for me. I asked him for it 2 weeks ago and said it would help my counselling. I do believe it will.

I have signed the divorce papers and will give them to him today. If he gets mad at me maybe he will file and not try to take the anger out on me again. I've had enough of walking on eggshells.

To be fair, he is being sweet now, but I know it's a got a limited supply and never know when he'll run out.

I would love some straight advice. Well, maybe love is the wrong way to phrase it, but I do need it.

Straight advice: Go to your nearest women's shelter and ask for help.

Nothing else will ever make a difference. Ever.

Straight advice: STOP waiting for him to change. The ONLY way he will change is if you leave him and cut him out of your life and show him that the ONLY way he can ever get access to you again is if he completely transforms himself.

Straight advice: Go back and reread your thread and see what advice you've ALREADY been given and have chosen to ignore. Chosen to make excuses for why you can't do any of it.

So do you want a real marriage with this man or not? If you do, it will take you being brave. It will take you taking a stand, showing and using your boundaries, knowing that he will PUSH. He will try to make you stop. He will try to make you go back to the good little girl he thought he married a decade ago, because all he ever wanted was an abuse victim who will be his yes man and do whatever it takes to keep him happy; that's what abusers want. But you have to be willing to stand up to him - by being honest, calm, and protective of your marriage and family. Can you do this?

I can't give you any straighter advice than this.

Go to the women's shelter and ask for advice - THIS WEEK. Stop making excuses, cos guess what? We all know that's all they are - excuses cos you're afraid. But do you want your children to follow in y'all's footsteps? Or being healthy happy people?

524 pages - all printed

I feel overwhelmed and afraid, yes, very afraid.

Thanks CP. I will read from the top down and see what i can make of it and call the Womens shelter. I have there numbers in my phone but had put it off when he told me he had contacted the mens referral line and they had my number and would call me to check on me. It was meant to be the start of getting advice from the centre to help me at the same time he was getting help.

Sigh.