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I also posted this in the new marriages section and the divorces section but was told that this one gets more traffic so I'll repost here in hopes of getting some opinions. Hope this is ok, sorry for any who have read it already. The last bit is new
I've been with my wife for 5 years, we've been married for 1 and half years living together for 2 before that and she moved out a month ago. We never fought, I mean never not once in the 5 years we were together did either of us raise our voice. I thought we were happy and she says she was content but that it wasn't enough. When she told me she wanted a divorce I brow beat her into going to marriage counseling she went once and won't go again. She has agreed to meet with me once a week to talk about our marriage and we are using the 5 steps to Romantic love to try to rebuild things, (I just ordered the book today so up to now we have been going off of this website). This week our homework is to do the love busters and emotional needs worksheets. My problem is that she really does want out. We have no kids, no sigificant assets or debt that will be a problem or anything to hold us together. She said last week that she is just doing this so I won't hate her. She talked about how she tried to break up with me after 3 months of dating and how I should have let her. The reason she gave at the time is that she was going back to school 3 hours away. I talked her into giving it a chance and I went down there every weekend for a semester until she decided (against my urging) to move back here to go to school. Now she says she knew then that I was just supposed to be a transition guy. She says that many times she said she loved me it was a lie. When I asked her to write down what was good about our marriage she said, We are good friends, have good conversations, sex is amazing (although she doesn't want it?) and I am willing to give her space, and I love her. Negatives were that we are both enablers, of each others lazyness, I love her more than she loves me, which makes her feel bitter towards me and she felt like she was better at life (bills getting things done etc) before me.
She says it took her so long to tell me because she didn't want to hurt me but she now realizes she has to put herself first.
We have remained cordial with each other and that is the weirdest thing to me, the fact that she has moved out (currently living at her parents, who both like me) doesn't seem to be bothering her, she seems almost casual about the whole thing like it's not that big of a deal. We never made a big deal about being married, both of us felt like it was mostly for everyone else and that love was what mattered, I felt fully committed to her before the marriage and still did after the marriage.
A big part of our problem was communication, she never told me when she was unhappy with something, she'd just say that it was OK and so I believed her, (I've found out in counseling that we are both passive communicators and so we have worked on that by having a list of things that we talk about good and bad before we start talking on Sundays). I feel like we have a good roadmap for the communication problems.
The other problem is that we are just not initmate, I'm not talking about sex we always had sex about once a week but since about year one I could tell she was doing it for me, not because she wanted too, which was weird because she does cum. (Yes I'm sure that it's real). She just doesn't feel close to me, doesn't trust me and says she doesn't love me anymore. She also says when I'm on the road with my job (about 1 week a month on average) she realized she felt more comfortable with herself. She has big trust issues and claims she only has trusted 3 people completly in her life 2 of them (an old friend, and first love highschool sweetheart) ditched her. The third is her best friend, who likes me personally but has told my wife that she has to do whatever she has to do to make herself happy. For the record I have never done or said anything to my wife to make her not trust me. My primary sin in the marriage has been laziness. I know I neglected her but now that I know there is a problem I am doing all I can. I fear that my wife is going through the motions to make me happy and I don't know if my love credits are getting through. I won't stop trying until there is no other choice because I know that this can work if she'll just let it. Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.
This is new and not posted in the other one, I believe she has had an Emotional affair, (can it be an emotional affair with a gay man) she says he is just a friend but he took my place in filling some of her emotional needs. She won't stop seeing and talking to him, although I think he has hurt our relationship.
Another Edit, I am really not sure about the EA I know it bothers me and I know it has caused problems, but I also know that I have jealousy issues. I read Dr. H's article and have looked other places for definition. She has never (to my knowledge) lied about being with him or talking to him. And while he was fulfilling needs I don't think they were needs that wouldn't have been fulfilled with one of her girlfriends if he never existed. Asking her to give up a legitimate friendship seems harsh if it is just my issues. Maybe I should just try to fulfill those needs myself and put limits on the relationship. IE no talking about our relationship, our time comes first etc. Anyone else out there deal with the gay best friend?
Last edited by Determinedhubby; 02/17/09 03:42 AM.
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I would say yes, she can have an EA with a gay guy. He is meeting her top EN and she is now wayward. Plan A her.
BH-me 32
WW-27
Married 5 yrs. together for 8
D2
D7
D-Day:11/10
EA for a week went PA and WW immediately left home leaving everything behind.
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Please read the articles at this site. Estimate her real Emotional Needs. Meet them. Look very good when you do this.
But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams -Yeats
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My advice:
Get out while you can, as quickly and as cleanly as you can, and thank your lucky stars that this happened before your M got more complicated with children and joint property to consider.
ManInMotion
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(see "MiM's Story" for more details)
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My advice:
Get out while you can, as quickly and as cleanly as you can, and thank your lucky stars that this happened before your M got more complicated with children and joint property to consider. I concur, RUN, and be thankful the fallout is minimized.
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Thanks for all the responses. I have read the site pretty much the entirety of the site at this point, I appreciate that some of you think I should leave but, NO. I'm just not willing to give up. It is painful but she is worth it. I love her and just saying get out does not Gel with what what I want. It may be painful and it may not work but I am not stopping unless all else is failed.
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Thanks for all the responses. I have read the site pretty much the entirety of the site at this point, I appreciate that some of you think I should leave but, NO. I'm just not willing to give up. It is painful but she is worth it. I love her and just saying get out does not Gel with what what I want. It may be painful and it may not work but I am not stopping unless all else is failed. DH, years ago, I was faced with a similar situation to what you're facing now. I chose to stay. Even now, 4 years into recovery from her 2-year A, I question my decision-making so many years ago that led me to this situation. Unfortunately for me, there was no-one back then advising me to walk away.
ManInMotion
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(see "MiM's Story" for more details)
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Determined: Good for you for wanting to stick this out and give it a try! Even if your marriage ends up heading to Plan D, you will have given it your best shot and will grow as a person because of your involvement here and with MB.com principles.
That said, be prepared for a rocky and rollercoaster ride. You have shared some interesting info on your wife, including an EA with a gay man. If I were you I would be prepared for some more bad news in the future...possible PA, maybe even more EA/PA's that you do not know about.
Get the book, SAA from this site and read it cover to cover. Then read it AGAIN! Work on meeting your wifes Emotional Needs (ENs). Plan A the heck out of her. Show her that you can make improvements to yourself and make your relationship better.
Win her back with your ACTIONS, not begging, crying and pleading her to come back.
And start snooping! Install a keylogger on computers she has access to. They even have remote loggers that e-mail results to you. You can get this on parents computer. Monitor her cell phone usage and e-mail. The keylogger will help you find her password. Check on her to protect your marriage. And don't tell her you are looking, never give up your sources.
Keep posting here...lots of good advice and wisdom.
D-Papers served May 8th, 2009
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She came over this afternoon, just called me up and asked if she could come over and watch TV, since she was working a split shift (her parents live 15 minutes from work I live about 10) I said sure, she picked up lunch and came over. Nothing really happened we sat and read books while the TV was on, I did laundry (something I never did while she was with me) then she took a nap for a couple of hours.
Don't know if it means anything but I wanted to post it just in case. Thanks again for taking the time to read.
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We talked again last night, actually text messaged for 2 hours (That's what she likes to do do with everyone). We made a game of asking each other questions and answered them everything from favorite poet, to why is your best friend your best friend, to dreams, to your first grade teacher. I'm sure that one of her EN needs I was neglecting was conversation so I think I done good.
Still not sure what POJA means (someone said it in my other thread). I am also really struggling with whether or not she had an EA with this gay guy. I don't think there was any physical attraction, just him meeting emotional needs for recreation and conversation. I am trying to fill those needs now, I feel like asking she not see someone who is a friend and not a PA risk may be a HUGE love buster, and exposing is pointless because she has never bothered to hide this relationship from anyone as she feels there is nothing to hide. I also know that I have my own issues with regards to jealousy.
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Policy of Joint Agreement! The umpteenth time I read it and finally got it. The acronyms on this site can be tough at first.
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Yeah, the acronyms can be tough at first but once you've been here a while government regulation manuals won't seem cryptic at all  You done GREAT texting her and answering those questions. If conversation is a top EN of hers, you made beaucoup deposits.
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Yeah, the acronyms can be tough at first but once you've been here a while government regulation manuals won't seem cryptic at all You done GREAT texting her and answering those questions. If conversation is a top EN of hers, you made beaucoup deposits. thanks for your response The good thing about the acronyms is that it makes you reread things you have already read to figure out what people are talking about. This adds understanding to the process. As well as letting you know what people are talking about. In my other thread it was recomended that I focus on filling her emotional needs while still being honest about my feelings on gay friend, but not pushing the issue. Any thoughts?
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Helping Determined keep his thread togther... http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubb...in=156126&Number=2216181#Post2216181That's my original story. After reading some of what I saw on here I decided to put a keylogger on the computer for the next time she came over. That was tonight. When she left I checked her myspace found the following the names have been changed to protect the guilty. The first is from her the second is from her friend ----------------- Original Message ----------------- From:WW To: Hann(ah) Date: Feb 13, 2009 8:35 PM Subject: Just something I want to say Thank you. For being my friend. For being my tough friend. For being the one that will tell me the things I need to hear even though it's like being slapped in the face. Because that's love. I'd rather be slapped in the face then to be constantly running into this brick wall that BS has created. I try to tell him everything I'm feeling minus the OM factor. The "I'm unhappy. You cannot make me happy. I only loved you because I didn't want to hurt you. I am bitter towards you and that won't change. You are not my future." I know the OM factor will have to come in eventually. I don't think I'm leading BS on. It's simply that he won't listen to me. Because the truth hurts. I just want to keep shouting those things until they get through to him. Because those will hurt a lot less then him knowing that OM is the man I'm meant to be in love with. And yes it leads him but never on purpose and never with any ill will attached. But your slaps in the face make me strong while his brick wall makes me exhausted but I'm starting to train myself to take it and give me energy. A will to fight. Because hurting someone to a breaking point isn't right. I hope to be able to do this without breaking BS. I mean completely destroying him. Because he already has trust issues. And I've heard over and over again what his high school sweetheart did to him. The important part of this note is the Thank You part. So thank you. Love you. You are welcome. The only thing I want is for you to be happy. I am here always, no matter what. You are a strong and beautiful wonderful amazing person, no matter how you feel some days please remember that. I love you so much. You made me cry a little. Sick huh? I hate it when my feelings show. Hannah PS I love OM too. So I confronted the WW tonight, I called her (she had already left, she said to go home but who knows.) She didn't answer the first few times and eventually did and I asked her to come back she asked why, and I told her because I knew, she said knew what and I said I know you've been having an affair with OM. She came over after that. I remained calm and asked her how long, she said since May and claims that she hasn't slept with him or kissed him but they have talked about their feelings and they are in love. I said I knew he had met her EN for conversation and recreation and that I had neglected them, I talked about the progress we had made in having me meet them. She said he also gave her security because she trusted him in a way she didn't trust me. She couldn't explain how that was just that he and she had a connection that she had had with only 3 other people (see my other post for those 3 people) I asked her to give him up, and work with me, reminding her that she had promised to work with me, and that keeping him around was not working with me. She said "you want me to give up the only thing that makes me happy" I said I need you to give up your affair to make this work. We went round and round on that topic for while Her saying that she had thought he was gay and she had wished he was. And that she had been unhappy from the start and I should have let her go back then etc etc. (see my original post for the details as they were just rehashed). Then Hannah called because WW had called her earlier, and offered to come over to "mediate" now I like Hannah, but she is WW's friend first and that showed. Basically I talked to WW and Hannah spoke for WW who at this point had gone into a shell. Hannah said alot of things about how I wasn't respecting WW's feeling because she had told me what she wanted a quick quiet as close to painless divorce as possible and to be happy (which involves OM). I told her that if she wanted to be happy She should be with the man who would do anything for her. Not some guy who had helped make her a liar and an adulteress. I told her that the withdrawel would take time but she would be ok I would be there and her friends would be there and that only when it was over could we truly work on things. She reiterated that she had no desire to work on things (at this point I was accused by Hannah of making demands) specifically the demand that she work on it. I was also accused of making demands when i tried to set a time to talk about things again. Finally I said Fine, I love you and I want to talk about this, call me when you are ready. Then they left. Is there a difference between asking for something and making a demand? So I guess I am in plan B. Not sure how exactly to expose I am going to contact her parents and possibly her boss. I don't know OM's last name but am going to try to find out so that I can contact his parents. I think all her friends pretty much know. I am so numb right now. Angry and numb if that makes any sense. At least I know I'm not crazy i knew something was up and I was right. What makes me so mad is that I know how to fix this but she just won't let me, and If I had just done this research before it never would have come to this. Any advice on exposing this or anything else PLEASE. Right now I don't even know if I want to work it out. I love her but it's just a matter of time (and probably not much) before she sleeps with him. I love her and hate her right now. Also if anyone can give some links to threads where people have worked things out after the affairs and one spouse wants divorce i really need some hope. Thanks again. God bless everyone on here who wants to help others in their time of need. Without this site I would be completely lost right now.
D-Papers served May 8th, 2009
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Okay, cats out of the bad now and you KNOW for sure the "gay friend" really isn't. Now it's GAME-ON brotha! Full frontal assault with a little advanced recon to the flanks. Bust out the 50 cal. Break open the 55 gallon drum of whoop-[censored]! You are going to hear this from many mb.com-ers - Do everything you can to prevent this EA from becoming a PA. Disable her car, spend as much time around her as possible, etc. But realize that it may already be a PA. Brace yourself for that news. - Continue Plan A-ing your tail off. No talk about the relationship, no begging her to come back. Show her you are the on by your ACTIONS - Expose the crap out of this affair. To his parents, friends, co-workers, anyone who has been in contact with this affair. Tell them you are going to fight for your marriage and this is important, ASK them for advice. This will get them to buy in to your marriage - Expose to her family, especially parents and siblings. ASK them for ADVICE and tell them you are going to fight for your marriage - Pay a visit to the OM in person! Bring a friend. Be calm, tell him under no uncertain terms that you are going to fight for your marriage and he needs to get him self out of this relationship! Don't threaten him, just tell him how it is. - Explore legal action. In some states the OM can be sued for having an affair with a married woman (heard this around here, not case in my state...but worth looking into) - Take care of yourself. Exercise, eat right, dress nice -- especially when you know you are going to see your WW. SHOW her that you are taking care of yourself and that you can change for the better. - Continue snooping! Keep that keylogger running, check phone records, put voice recorder in her car, anything you can do to get intel. This may help you find out ENs that you aren't meeting. May also help you gather information should you eventually head towards Plan D in future. If she's got a smart-phone check out flexispy.com. Great software. - Buy Surviving an Affair from this site and READ it three times Be strong my brother. You can do this. We are here to help.
D-Papers served May 8th, 2009
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You have now discovered that your WW has been involved in an A since May. That means most of your short M has been a lie. And I'm going to tell you quite frankly that it's quite likely gone to PA status already.
I will repeat what I said in a previous message: Get out while you can, as quickly and as cleanly as you can, and thank your lucky stars that this happened before your M got more complicated with children and joint property to consider.
Whatever you decide, I would also suggest exposing the situation to her parents, finding out who the OM is and exposing the situation to his family as well.
ManInMotion
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(see "MiM's Story" for more details)
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I told her flat out that I don't believe her when it comes to it not being physical. I told her that I hope it is true but she has given me no reason to believe her. The reality is that it really doesn't matter she has broken my trust regardless. I'm going to expose, trying to find out the OM's full name from someone else who works with my wife so I can contact his family, he has roommates not a wife. I will do it all at once and hopefully it will hurt me less. I plan on talking to her boss who she is very close too but I don't see her getting in trouble with HR she is a manager at a mom and pot eatery.
I appreciate the advice to leave, but once again at least for now I decline. Still know she is better than this. i still know that this can work. I still want it too. Still in love.
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I appreciate the advice to leave, but once again at least for now I decline. Still know she is better than this. i still know that this can work. I still want it too. Still in love. I understand ManinMotions advice here. My WW had an affair in year four of our marriage. No kiddos, no house, would have been a clean break. But I cared deeply about her, loved her and wanted to work on our marriage. I understood what I did wrong to push her away. And yes, I'm here again after A#2. So Determined, you do run the risk that even if you recover your marriage, you may be right back here years down the road. It does stink that I'm going through this AGAIN, but the 17 years we have shared together have been wonderful (okay, minus the affairs...) If you have looked deep down inside and really want to fight for your wife and marriage, then we, the mb.com-ers need to provide you with a plan. It ain't easy, and it's not going to be a short fix. But remember this...someone said to me in my original thread here. Even if your marriage does not work out, by working on this, doing Harley principles, you will become a better person and be a better off in future relationships. If you want to fight I'm going to stand next to you and hand you ammo.
D-Papers served May 8th, 2009
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No woman is worth this. None. I know you're in love, but the majority of your marriage has been a lie. You have no kids.
Why put yourself through this with a woman who has violated you in such a terrible way and that you've had trust issues with for so long?
There are TONS of good women out there.
Someone once told me that when it's real it doesn't require so much effort.
I believe it.
You're probably sticking to this because you don't know any better.
How old are you?
She has absolutely no incentive to return to your marriage because you have no kids. None. That's normally the incentive to restore a family.
You don't have that. So what, besides your love for her, will motivate her to return?
I have very rarely seen a WW with no kids want her BH back while I've been on these boards. I saw it one time many years ago when a woman left her husband to have an affair and wanted him back after a few years but he had long since moved on.
So why do you want her back? Please don't say that it's because she's a great person because she's doing another man with no conscious thought about the impact on you.
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I'm going to expose, trying to find out the OM's full name from someone else who works with my wife so I can contact his family, he has roommates not a wife. I will do it all at once and hopefully it will hurt me less. I agree with the others you would be wiser to leave this marriage now. But it's your decision and you want to stay, so the advice you get will be to support your staying in the marriage. You're on the right track with wanting to expose all at once. How do you know OM isn't married? Did your lying WW tell you? Did her ever so trustworthy OM tell *her* that? It wouldn't be the first time that a "single" OM has turned out to be married and the WW had no clue. Verify this info for yourself. Do NOT warn your WW that you are going to expose! She will tell everyone how you're jealous and possessive and crazy, how she's tried and tried to talk to you but you won't listen. She'll tell everyone what a good friend OM is but that you're insanely jealous of the only person who understands what she's going thru and is offering her help from a male perspective. Then when you expose everyone will think "Yup, he's jealous and crazy all right. Poor WW, no wonder she's having a hard time." intelius.com is sometimes good for finding out about folks - it lists people they've lived with in the past, and that might include parents or spouses. Keep the key logger on the PC but absolutely under NO circumstances should you let her know where you're getting your info from. If you have her MySpace password, it might be the same as her email password. Her emails might reveal OM's last name. Or he might be one of her MySpace friends. Keep your eyes open. How did she meet OM? When do they get together?
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