"I'm having a disgustingly awesome time venting to her right now. She SUPER-REMORSEFUL. I'm not being mean, just detached. The reality of us splitting. Feels good and terrible."

I'm sure she will be back. Better think about Alanon.

Zen: sorry to hear about these latest revelations (one night stand, showing her boobs, naked in hot tub...etc., etc.)

Sounds like you have reached the end of the road my friend. Be strong and be there for your kiddos. Lean, mean fightin Dad.

Must be the week of

I got the feeling last night that my WW was about to tell me some stuff that I hadn't known. And all day today I've had the horrible possibilities going through my mind...things like

- There have been more than the two affairs
- She's slept with one of my friends, a relative or a neighbor...right under my nose
- She's done sex acts with OM that she never did or would do with me (oh, I'm ready to hear this one...been preping myself for this since DDay.)
- [insert other icky stuff here]

I really hope I'm wrong, but the moon / tide phase must be effecting all these waywards...casue I'm hearing a lot of former secrets being spewed...

Waiting for the shoe to drop.

Zen, be strong. You know that you have tried at your marriage and have given it your best. And you are a stronger man because of all this. Take care, D.

You guys are mind readers. She's super apologetic and reconciliatory sounding. I think I'm going to cry and throw up. I love her but I can't keep doing this.

Dear god, give me the strength. I want what I had, but I don't know know if I want her. I swear you guys can predict the future. I have this feeling she's going to try to come back. I'm so ready to move on. I just think she's broken inside. I don't want a crippled marriage with the possibility of this happening again. I can;t do it. I deserve more than this this. I'm really starting to look at this like a drug addict. The behavior is alarmingly simple. This is one of her last emails:

"Look, I know I own this. I own all of it. this is my fault. I haven't even been meeting you half way. It is hard for me to fight for your forgiveness"

Advice?!!! I want to just welcome her and love her. I feel like a co-dependant through and through. I know that I can't.

I told her that all I can say is, "Actions speak louder than words."

She said OK.

I think I'll keep moving forward with the separation. I guess I'll know if she can do it or not. It's no longer for me.

This is her latest email.

"will you please give us one more chance?"

Zen, you have to look at her nature. She basically needs to remove any arrogance, she has to be humbled. It sounds like shes there. But the other night after you sent a letter to this guy. She got up, got drunk and slept with someone she didn't know. Do you foresee stress in reconciliation? I'm sure you do. Will there be fights? I'm sure there will. What coping mechanisms does she have? Get angry, get drunk, cheat. That is as you have said "actions speak louder then words". I would hope she would be contrite. But how long does it last?

Read what she said. "It is hard to fight for your forgiveness". This is a completely arrogant and selfish statement. Its hard because she is a narcissist. She does not want to humble herself. You said it "Actions speak louder then words" She says she owns it. But even in her admission it sounds like she is speaking from a position of authority.

Imagine if she wrote this.

My darling, first of all I want to tell you that I love you. I do. I know nothing I have done could make you believe that. I have betrayed our marriage, our family, our love. I will understand if you take this letter burn it, and spit in my face. I deserve it all. I look at myself in the mirror and get physically ill at what I have become. You have told me that "actions speak louder then words". Actions are all I have left. My words are worth nothing. If by some miracle you could just wait to close the book on our marriage, I would do everything in my power to earn your love and my place back in your heart. I can offer no excuse, because there is none. All I can say is that I will fight with all my soul to regain your trust. If you do want to divorce me, I completely understand. But even then if you would allow me to be in your life and let me prove my love, I will count myself blessed for the opportunity. Please don't leave me. I love you.

Zen,

Could this describe your wife at any point in your marriage, or could you see her ever doing this? The words aren't important. Its the meaning behind them.

Zen: Yes, her actions do speak louder than her words. If she talks the talk and does not walk the walk...well, then you know it's time for you to walk.

And even if she starts walking the walk and you decide to work on marriage, there is a chance that somewhere down the road she will lapse back in to the alien-infested-wayward that causes you so much pain.

No one is going to blame you for using your "get out of marriage free" card. She chose to have an affair. You chose to work on yourself, your family and Plan A her. No one blames you for walking away.

Do what's best for YOU! Don't think about this in terms of your WW, or even your kiddos. If you stay in this marriage for anyone but YOU, trust me my friend, you are going to regret it down the road. Look deep inside and see what you want to do.

Be strong my friend.

Zen,

Hasn't she told you the above before, only to do more things to disrespect and hurt you?

I can't believe how similar our situations are. I can only speak for myself and my case, but I had, had, to turn this over to God. As I slowly did so, over the course of months I began to understand that I had to release control of the situation.

Unfortunately for me, I think I am one of the poster children for doing Plan A for too long. I just lost my love for her. I began to see her as others did, and it wasn't what i had always thought.

I went into plan B for some time and am now in a plan B but planning D. Once I began to truly feel that I no longer wanted or needed my WW, she is starting to wake up and try, like never before.

Pull up before you get to where i am if you want to save this. One more instance of lying or trying to get back with the OM or the antics she has been pulling...Plan B. Immediately.

I think your WW is a lot like mine. She is going to have to hit rock bottom, and then you will have to decide, on your own terms, whether you want her back and under what circumstances and conditions.

I empathize with you friend.

Thanks my friends. I'm going to have to think long and hard about this one. SHe's saying all the right things. I'm just listening. Kinda detached.

Well had an interesting evening. She said all the right things. Losing everything has lifted the fog for now. Saying this was not about our marriage or me, but about her coping and innability to find happiness when things get hard. Very nice evening. Did NC letter, access to email and phone, voluntarily.

This morning the withdrawal and depression is hitting HARD. I'm trying to back off the hope again, but she's coming home now, which is signifigant. The guilt and broken heartedness is hitting her like a truck.

She's still in the right place, but this is gonna be HARD.

Roller coaster continues, I'm a rock. (A loving rock.)

Oh Oh!!! And get this?! OM called me last night! I was asleep. He called and says, "You win. I know this was wrong and I'm sorry for my part in this. I know your family and your kids are important and I just don't want you to think I'm a cold hearted jerk. I will you leave your family alone. Thank you for writing to me. I'm sorry... etc etc."

Went on for about 10 minutes. I told him thank you.

Weird, but good I guess.

Wife is coming home from work because sorrow is hitting hard. I'm glad she's coming to lean on me, but I need to stay detached some. I need her to do this work.

If he is serious, this truly is a big step in the recovery of your marriage.

That's great that he called you. I hope things work out.

Please do me a favor though. Continue to snoop. Apparently a lot of WS's will either pretend to quit and just hide it better (even by having OM call you), or else they will intend to quit but can't help themselves.

And make sure you set up the transparency, access to her passwords, etc.

I'll do some snooping, but frankly, I can tell pretty easily by her emotions where things are. I'm taking a somewhat back seat position here. I'm fully prepared to move on. I know it's VERY likely she'll slip. It'll hurt again if she falls, but she knows that's it for me. I'm surprised that it took the ACTUALITY of splitting to wake her up. She said she just hadn’t thought of so many things... like me working so hard at this, that it wasn't me who was the problem, she was headed down the road to being her father (horrible womanizer and serial cheater). What she really stood to lose...

She's experiencing the depression pretty acutely.

Here are some emails this morning. I told her to write down some of what she said last night:

"which part.

the part about me not feeling validated as a person or any self-worth and that is why I destroy everything around me?

the part where I hate myself? and all I can seem to love when in that hole is what makes me feel good and my children?

the part where I'm afraid of turning into my dad?

the part where I didn't meet you half way or appreciate the work you were doing?"

And another:

"I know, I do not expect you to argue your points anymore. I don't expect you to put up the fight anymore. I know it's all on me. and I will. but right now I just want to cry. cry for what I've done, cry for what I've become and cry for what I've lost."

It's gone from a lot of relief and sorry last night to a lot more withdrawal depression stuff. The wall has come back up a little, but that seems pretty normal from what everyone has said. I'm going to stay firm and a bit detached. Keep looking at both possibilities for my life.

She was feeling super depressed and I asked if she wanted to come home. She said yeah, that's what I need. We had lunch and she felt better. Asked a lot about the withdrawal symptoms and timeline. Made the analogy to drug addiction on her own.

Both of you getting a lot of sleep is important. I would tell you to take naps together. To re-establish physical touch will be important when you are ready. Take long walks together even if you don't say a word (in fact you shouldn't). Just being there, and letting her know that there is hope will help her.

Ugh. Oh the pain. Oh the PAIN.?

She gave me her email passwords. She went in and cleared out old emails, told me she would, I was right there. Said it was for my own good. I told her I didn't want to know, but had already imagined it all.

Well, she forgot to delete them all. Rough. Ouch. Nothing I didn't imagine, I guess. Nothing too icky, just lots of new lover stuff. Some very cold talk about me. This is all from a month ago, soon after D-Day.

Then a mention to another friend about our sex life being mediocre. Jesus, it was FANTASTIC for most of the 9+ years we were together. It was a cornerstone of our relationship in some ways. I KNOW I wasn't delusional. I know this is looking at it through the lens of the affair, but CHRIST that hurts.

Do I tell her I saw it?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!

Apparently WW have to justify their operations. So they lie to there friends and lie to themselves.

Perfectly normal.