30 degrees F this morning when I got up to milk.

If I converted that correctly it was -2 C and I shivered.

Not to worry. You have already adapted to things far more significant than temperature...

Curses, foiled again.

Chewie and I got on the plane to cold, dark places and got to the city Saturday (a 2.5 hour drive from the rural community where we were headed) and took a walk and got a bite to eat and then my cell phone rang. I had to get a flight back on an emergency basis to deal with something kid-related. So I never made it to the community.

Chewie went to interviews, etc as planned and did not come up with any conclusions except that he could live there if I absolutely loved it.

But I haven't seen it.

I am furious, feeling robbed again by other people's insanity. I definitely was needed to deal with the situation at home but it should never have happened.

I had vague hopes that we would either fall in love with this community and work together on building a new life there, or mutually agree that it wasn't the right place.

I have no closure and can't stand much more in the way of setbacks.

Because of what happened this weekend with kids, it is going to be more difficult than ever for both of us to go look at a new place together, unless we take DS 15 with us.

So I have no idea how to navigate this any more.

We have another look-see at another place in 2 weeks, but that is just an afternoon out. It is a place I feel may be too close and that does not have much in the way of services for DS15, but I will try to set up something with the schools anyway.

Anyway, nothing good to report here. I spent the weekend flooded with negative emotions while Chewie was off being wined, dined, and courted.

Hi, Chrysalis.

Hope you're doing okay.

-L4

L4,
Hi, and thanks. This will be a long, rambly response!

I am sitting in a Panera Bread using free wi-fi for a few hours while Chewie does his interview. It is nearly 100 degrees and I would rather be hiding out in here than out there! They are taking us out to dinner later and I am trying to stay decent looking and smelling! LOL!

Cold, dark place still wants Chewie and they are helping me via telephone to learn what I can about school accommodations and autism services for DS15. I overnighted a big box to them this morning of evaluations & reports. We will probably have a conference call within a few days. If that checks out, I will go by myself to that community to see if I think it will work. Not the way I wanted to do things, but it's what I've got to work with.

We talked to the schools in the nearer place this morning; I gave them the same fancy notebook I'd prepared about DS15 (they were extremely impressed and wanted to use it as a model!) and they are going to have me back to look at a couple of programs in this area within a week or two.

We are down to a decision time and still don't have enough information to go on. In order to be in a new school for the fall, we need to know where it is going to be by the end of May.

Chewie brightens up considerably in the hot, sunny place. But doesn't want to go where it would be undesirable for DS15. I could do without the heat, but I love the mountains and I love LA. There would be some major advantages to remaining in CA (Favorable services for Ds 15, close to where DS25 wants to be, and favorable divorce laws should I decide that way) and some major advantages to staying in the greater LA area, but can I tolerate being only a 90 minute drive from OW? I don't know yet.

Advantages to the cold dark place are financial and the kinder social atmosphere, plus it would be completely new for both of us. A level playing field, no real drop in living standard near term and probably improvements long term, and new places to learn and grow to love.

In the meantime, DS15 is having a spring meltdown and has been suspended for several days in th last few weeks. DS25 is also not at his best and may or may not be moving back in with us very soon. DD22 is doing fabulously, just called me to talk her down from her emotional rush after a good "real" audition this morning, and I am going to escape to NY to see her spring show for Mother's Day.

I just had my 55th birthday. It was an awful day. I don't like birthdays anyway, and I really would have liked for Chewie to have figured out a way to make me feel celebrated without my having to dictate to him how to do it. He took the day off and we snarked at each other all day. I was on the verge of demanding a divorce the entire day. I was incredibly triggery and tearful and angry and resentful, and all Chewie could process was "Chrys is furious with me." The next day it was greatly better and we have had some improvement every day since.

The hardest part was knowing that he had gone to some pretty great lengths to do thoughtful things for OW for Christmas this last year, when he and I had agreed to eliminate our gifts in light of the New Zealand trip.

And I received not a single birthday gift.

I don't believe he doesn't get it. He's still a long, long way from putting into the M what he did into the A. And I don't really know what I'm going to do with any of that yet. I think I never realized before this that gifts are an important expression of love to me and that I want to be given them. I also know I've gotten awfully exhausted and resentful over birthdays and holidays, when the burden of "doing" has fallen entirely on me, I don't feel very good at it, and I don't feel particularly appreciated.

That was quite a rant, wasn't it?

I've joined a recovery group for betrayed spouses that has a spiritual emphasis and I think it will be helpful as I work through all of this.

The bottom line...I'm OK, not great. I am not starting any clock on "recovery" unless and until we move. There are things that I need to see Chewie change, and I need to figure out how to convey that to him in a way he understands. I will not begin to believe that the back of the A is broken until we have moved. Life is unsettled.

One scary thing about moving is the old saw...whereever you go, there you are. I'm not talking about Chewie still being Chewie in a new place-- I am talking about me still being me. I'll still be 55 years old, introverted to the point of being a hermit unless I have a niche to fill and a job to do, insecure about my abilities (though rationally I have little reason to be) and my appearance. I'm going to have to figure out how to break out of my shell and put myself out there. When I've done that in the past, I've accomplished some amazing things. If I don't work to change some of my own behaviors, though, I'll still be hurting and unhappy.

That's about all I can think of-- DS25 and DD22 have interrupted me 3-4 times while I was typing this, calling to chat. I've got another hour or so to kill until the dinner meeting.

Wow. I read all 43 pages and I ache for you. (((hugs)))

Thanks. The interview went well and Chewie now has two offers to consider.

I did not get any real sense for how I'd easily fit in to the community yesterday. It would be up to me to figure it out. I think the other place would work a lot harder to draw me in. I think I need to visit the other place pretty soon.

We are having a crisis with DS25, who is relapsing every 2-3 weeks with alcohol. It's not a trivial relapse, either, when it happens. This is really complicating my ability to figure out the move issues. We had told him he could move home but I am thinking I really don't want him living with us-- yet he has no other place to go. I was really not a happy camper last night to come home-- after his having stayed with us several days with no problem, and after I talked to him at 5 pm and things were great-- and find that he was under the influence and his brother had been left to fend for himself and was still up at midnight. I didn't sleep much.

This is just all really hard. I heard in my "betrayed recovery" group that if you decide to attempt to recover your marriage you should expect intense spiritual warfare. While I am not one to go all mysterious over that concept, it does seem that whenever I try to make progress on the move or on my own recovery a giant roadblock appears. There was the issue of being called home from our visit 2 weeks ago to deal with DS25's stuff. The first meeting of my recovery group had only been going 10 minutes when I got an emergency call to go to DS15's school-- and as soon as I got there the emergency evaporated. Yesterday DS25 acted out again.

I just want to be able to figure out my own needs and what to do to get them met without having my ability to do that stolen because of other people's bad behavior. Is that too much to ask? What is wrong here?

When our son was having issues ... we paid for him to stay in a sober living facility for 2 months.

He HATED us for that. But, who cares ! It was the right decision.

And when he got kicked out for a weekend for breaking the rules - we did not rescue him. Hardest thing to do. But he got to his "bottom" a lot quicker once we stopped "catching" him.

DO NOT LET HIM MOVE IN WITH YOU.

He will learn the tough lessons away from home, not in your home.

Wouldn't it be so much easier if we could look into the crystal ball and see how our life will be a year from now based on certain choices?

I don't know what to tell you other then it sounds like you're doing a heck of a job caring for others while in the meantime you're having everything plus the kitchen sink thrown at you. I beg of you to also take care of yourself, Chrysalis. Hard to do with DS15's special needs, but if there is anyway Chewie or a friend or a neighbor can help you with some of your tasks so that you can concentrate on your health -- physical, emotional, and spiritual -- and your M, please take advantage of those who can assist you.

You're in my prayers.

Take care and God bless.

-L4

Pep, we have spent a fortune over the last 2 years on rehab, sober living, and "anyplace but home." He did OK in the structured environment, only relapsed when leaving the structure. But we can't really afford to keep paying for this stuff.
I think we are pretty much done with rescue, but he is a master manipulator and very charming.
L4, thanks. Chewie actually does pitch in an awful lot and if I go to visit the other place will be home on child care duties. He is not making any demands on me, but as a practical matter DS15's stuff is my domain and I am the one with the information and skill at dealing with the schools.
The burden comes with knowing that a move is going to be really costly for everyone in the family, and probably of benefit only to me. What do I do with that piece of information? Of course, a divorce would have the same effect, only multiplied. Hugely costly to everyone, with the primary benefit of relief coming only to me.
Blech. I did not ask for this, no I did not.

Could you slap a strong legal agreement on the OW promising legally she will never see or talk to your husband again? Is there such a thing? Or would it even work. Is he still so weak you cannot trust a thing he does?

Bubbles, after the number of false recoveries I am done with any attempt at trying to rebuild in this location.

Good to hear from you again. What is up with the no birthday gift?

Chrysalis,
This statement is NOT TRUE. The way that I (and probably most everyone else here) see this is the move is no more costly than a Divorce, probably less costly.

And, as to who benefits from the move....EVERYONE does. You marriage, i.e. your family, can not possiblily withstand staying in the current location.

Stop being so hard on yourself....this isn't just about you and what you need, it's about your entire family and all of your futures. You did not ask to be put in this position, you were put there by someone that was supposed to love and cherish you, and protect you.

NOW he can protect you by moving and doing what needs to be done to keep your marriage together and give it the best chance possible of recovering.....

{{{{Chrys}}}}

C - What is the recovery group you are involved in with a spiritual emphasis?

Gifts - I understand the disappointment, I'm one year out. This Christmas I got my husband stuff he really wanted.

His birthday a week later - more stuff he really wanted

Valentines Day - more stuff

Anniversary - one week later - final stuff he really wanted.

I worked and researched as usual to find the right things.

My gifts from him:

Christmas - bird feeder

B - day - card

V - day - card

Ann day - card saying the best decision I ever made was to marry you - this while professing to not having decided to commit or not to this marriage yet and not liking my "persona"

At the end of this slug of "days", as he walked away with his much desired gifts, he said,

"guess I should have gotten you something."


I'm not on his radar. The cards came because our children were home and would expect that from him for me.

Yep, it hurts. But it was just the reality of how he has always not thought about me.

Oh, did I mention he dropped over $50K on the OW in gifts and loans (never repaid) in secret from our now struggling business?

I'm glad you're moving. Maybe there's less fog there.

"At the end of this slug of "days", as he walked away with his much desired gifts, he said,

"guess I should have gotten you something."

Wow can I relate to this. The gift thing triggered me. My ex never got me anything - he ran out of money after buying stuff for the kids, his sister and her kids, his brother and his kids, people at work, barmaids, etc.

And then he would be remorseful, sad that he didn't get me anything. But it happened year after year.

Believer,77, to be fair, I am a birthday Scrooge and have been ever since he has known me. I think I need to have a talk with him at some non-birthday time and tell him I have decided I want to be feted on special days but that I really want him to put the energy into it. He'll either respond, or not.

JoJo, I agree with what you are saying in theory. IN practice, I keep getting slammed with the seeming impossibility of moving.

Chrysalis I am going to second this and add one thing. I know what life is like with a Doctor and you know as well as I do that the person who holds the family together and makes it all work is you. Even if it were true that you were the only one to benefit from the move the entire family benefits when you are safe, happy and cared for.

Have you looked at the Mid West? You could have his hot weather with lots of humidity (who needs the ocean!) and lots of cold just cause.... ((((hugs))))to you.

77, I don't think I am allowed to name the other group here since it might be seen to be in competition with MB. It is a paid group with some online features. Slightly different emphasis, but mostly compatible with MB principles, IMHO.
SSS, thanks. I won't say exactly where we are looking except it is part of the lower 48 and has winters. Summers, too, but not so much.

Chrys,

Oh man, can I feel what you are going through. I want to give you a big I can hear that your stress level is through the roof, so please be kind to yourself.

And trust me, a D would be far worse all the way around. Especially at our age (I have my 55th coming in Aug - UGH). Moving won't guarantee anything, but it has to be better than where you are now. In my case, the OW was 1000 mi away but it wouldn't have mattered because my WH wasn't committed to the M.

And please don't enable your son. I've so been there. If it weren't for the baby, I don't think my DD would be where she is now. I didn't expect her to be alive at this point. She seems to be doing well, but then again it's a day by day thing.

Gifts? We've all been there. My 35 years of gifts consisted of "Here's $50. Now go buy yourself something." OP got Victorias Secret, flowers, stuff for her motorcycle, and on and on. Ain't it grand?

to you Chrys....