Who said Harley lied? I merely stated that it behooves him to teach that homosexuality is curable because who better to cure it than a psychologist. He may provide this site for free but look at his bio and you'll see he had a very successful practice with "the largest network of mental health clinics in Minnesota (thirty-two locations) with over one hundred psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers and chemical dependency counselors working with him to provide a full range of mental health services. He became the exclusive provider of mental health and chemical dependency services in ten counties, and had offices in other counties as well." He sold the clinics and I'm probably correct in presuming he did so for a profit.

He also conducts his Marriage Builders seminars. Couples pay $2K for two days. That's nice income.

I simply choose to believe differently.


Thank you believer and Krazy71 for your comments. I see I'm not alone in choosing to believe science. I do have some background in the Bible as well as in psychology and I've struggled for years to reconcile the two. So has my husband, and that's why we left the last church we belonged to. I believe in a higher power but I do not believe in organized religions anymore. Talk about agendas... Much of the decision to leave that church makes better sense now in light of discovering he is gay. Actually, lots of things make better sense now.

As for my evidence gathering, I have more emails, more screen captures and more chat logs. He told me he spent last weekend with friends from work. He told his new chat buddy he spent it with a man he met online. Those "gay porn sites" I posted are websites where men post a profile and photos and hook up with other men. That's where I was able to gather the most damning evidence. I'm not playing anyone; I simply offered those sites as a resource for someone else in my position. Believe me when I say I get a real sickening feeling in the pit of my stomach when I log into one of those sites posing as a man and have my husband initiate an instant message with the person I'm pretending to be. He's sent me nude photos of himself and described in detail the acts he's performed with other men and those he'd like to perform with "John Doe."

Claire,

It's almost like you're now DEFENDING your H's actions?

believer, lets put on our thinking hats. k?

Homosexual behavior and pedophiliac[?] behavior is ALWAYS A CHOICE. We may not choose our urges, but we do choose our BEHAVIOR. Just because one has an URGE, does not mean the urge is right or that it should be acted upon.

Wow believer...Did you read the excerpt that I posted from Dr. Harley's book?

Specifically, this portion:


I wonder if you would be so bold as to email him and tell him that he needs to "face reality"?

Mrs. W

PLEASE!!!

Keep your comments supportive, constructive and ON THE TOPIC to help this member!!!

I believe I said before that I could accept his being gay. What I cannot accept is his rampant promiscuity that jeopardizes his health and mine, his job security and the financial security we've built together, his relationship with our children and other family members and his very life.

I believe he needs psychiatric care, not for homosexuality, but to find out why he is willing to engage in such risky behaviors. He has propositioned strangers and invited them to his hotel room while traveling on business. He has lied to me in order to meet men for sexual activity.

Ok, as long as you agree that it is true and not said to "make a profit." That would be dishonest if it were said for that reason. As he said, couples that are afflicted by adultery, whether same-sex or opposite sex affairs, can use the MB program with the same results. He offers the program for FREE via this website.

So, it is clear he is not making up that claim to make a profit.

I would just point out that you have no legitimate reason to believe your marriage can't make it just because of unproven social stereotypes about gays.


I would like to see the "science" that supports your claim that one cannot change if they are "hardwired" to homosexuality. What scientific reports have brought you to this conclusion and what tests have been given to your H to support this view?

Stating in this thread that homosexuality is not a choice is rather like spitting into the wind. I refuse to get into the proverbial pissing contest with folks who prefer to believe fairy tales over science.

Thank you to those who offered me guidance. I have taken your advice and have a plan of action. I do not intend to divorce my husband because his adultery and promiscuity would then become public knowledge and do irrepairable damage to our children and other family members. They don't deserve that.

I do, however, intend to make him face his behavior and seek help. I will insist he stop trolling the internet for sex. I will insist on certain financial arrangements such as increased life insurance and larger contributions into my retirement account.

Right now I'm still too angry to have a meeting with him at the attorney's office. At this point my thoughts are leaning more toward castration than anything else. Once I can talk with him rationally across the table with my attorney present, then I'll begin to take action.

As for the science behind my beliefs, there's the Swedish study, the work of Glenn Wilson at the Institute of Psychiatry in London, the work done at the UCLA school of medicine and work done at the Cambridge Center for Behavioral Studies in Concord, Massachusetts to name a few.

I won't be visiting this message board again. I have enough stress in my life without banging my head against a brick wall of ignorance and intolerance. I know what I need to do.

I'm just wondering why all of those so-called schizophrenic people insist on muttering to themselves. It's no wonder they act crazy. Their incessant babbling just about drives me nuts, too.

And bi-polar people? Don't get me started. If they'd just choose to pick a mood and stick with it, they could stop making life miserable for everyone around them.

You "gay by choice" believers just may be on to something here...

Claire, I am sorry you feel that way, but I for one would be doing you a disservice if I didn't point out that homosexuals can and do change. There is no "science" that refutes that. There is no "science" that proves that being "hardwired" prevents a change. I realize it is a politically correct belief, but it is not a scientific belief. It is a social stereotype, not a true fact.

I would implore you to give it a try before you throw away your marriage on a trash heap based on nothing more than politically correct mythology when you have evidence from a clinical psychologist, Dr. Harley, that there is hope.

If someone told me before I went into AA that drinking was a not a "choice" and I could never CHANGE, I assure you I wouldn't have celebrated 23 years of sobriety last April. It would be a gross disservice to you to mislead you like that and I for one, won't do that.

Take care.

***EDIT***

***EDIT***

I am locking this thread now.

There is no scientific support of a "gay gene" or anything like it. No research has confirmed this because findings can't be replicated. What science is this?