Here is the new thread to start another noval. Thanks again to everyone for the great advice. See Truth or Lies I if you want all the bad history.

Zip, well I added one last post to your other thread before you posted this new one... sorry 'bout that!<P>--andy

I ready it Andy and it was very helpful. Good stuff. Going to take some action as well as be a good guy. Been too passive about some of this after the confrentations. This board has helped me confirm what I have been thinking

Zip --<P>First, great to see you started a new thread. Second, great advice it seems from both Bonny and airheart. Constructive advice towards a solution that we all seek.<P>Since our situations are so similar, I'm curious to see how the "non-threatening discussions" outside of session go. Also, very interested to see what reaction you get if you approach the OM's W. I didn't go that route since OM's W is so close to my W. I went right to the source -- the OM. may have been a mistake, but sometimes impulse takes over. <P>The addiction thing that Steve, Bonny, and airheart all talk about is scary. Could you explain any further re:what Steve said. Do we take it literally?<P>Good luck!

I called his number today during his show and I was the first call they went to. Went through my story and talked about this web site and board. Told him it was really cool. He flat out told me that my wife is probably addicted to this guy and is going through withdrawl. Told me that I should keep filling the love bank but the fact is that none if it will get deposited until she gets rid of her feelings for the other guy. Boy did that hit home given how hard I have been trying over the last 8 months. Said we should go away on a trip and reconnect. I told him that was easier said then done given I can't get her to go out on a date. Talked to me for about 15 minutes.<P>Told me I should go to the OM's wife and let her in on my feelings thought the fall out would be minimum. Was very positive and said so many people go through this at different stages of their lives i.e. kids jobs etc. <P>Going to be out of town the next couple of days on biz. Good luck to all and welcome any thoughts as always

One other thing he was the first conseler that talked in plain english and laid stuff on the line. That is what I liked the most. I would love to get my wife and he to talk

A counselor with a plan!!!! I've got a thread going re:just that issue since mine doesn't appear to have a plan or strategy.<P>Wish I could get away with W, but she's unwilling. Blaming the kids schedule, but I think things are still too fresh to get away together, alone. <P>Good luck with your plan. Keep us posted upon your return --<P>keystone

Zip,<P>You're trying so hard... I really hope everything works out for you! <P>That's great about Harley... I wish my H would go to a counselor. <sigh><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

keystone and zip,<P>The addiction that both of your wives are feeling for the OM is very very real, and so hard to break. I speak from experience. Even if your wives admit to the affair and decide to give up the OM, the pull will be unbelievably tempting. <P>This is like any other addiction. Like drugs or alchohol. When they eventually do give up the OM, both you and your wives must take things one day at a time, and you should expect lapses when they break down and contact the OM anyway. The withdrawal period as they try to get over their addiction will be <B>hugely</B> taxing on you, and might even be harder than what you're going through right now, if you can believe that. You must call upon all your strength and love for your wives to get through it.<P>One last comment -- All the advice given by Harley is good. Good luck to both of you!<P>--andy

As I replied to your other Post....TELL the OM's wife.<P>Also, you had asked, "Can close friendship with members of opposite sex exist?"<P>My H is the betrayer in our marriage. We both agree that a CLOSE and personal friendship with a member of the opposite sex cannot exist because it will have a negative impact on your marriage. Eventually, you WILL become emotionally or romantically involved with that person.<P>We do have friends whom we see as couples, but only as couples. The only friends that my H sees alone now, are his male friends.<P>Again, PLEASE TELL the OM's wife. She has a right to know what is going on with her H. Also show her those phone bills. That will be concrete proof that something inappropriate is going on.

Hi Zip,<P>I see you've been getting a lot of good advise since last I was on here. I think it is good advise,especially the part about going away together. My husband and I had to go away to a meeting pretty soon after a lot of "fallout". We were in pretty bad shape. I had not discovered this board and we were not doing things according to Harley. In other words, I was in the WORST pain and withdrawal and my husband was as mad as H***. But the trip really helped. We had some bad moments, a few fights but there was something very "theraputic" about the whole trip. <BR>My husband called OM's wife and although my situation was as different from yours as one affair is from another, it made a world of difference. It was the final punctuation point on the relationship I had with OM. Basically I had made up my mind to end it and had ended it for a few months,partly because I thought my husband was getting suspicious. And HE WAS. Anyway, OM called again(after these few months)and we were in danger of starting up again. Strangely it was a few days after this phone call that my husband presented me with his suspicions. He knew nothng of the call(God's hand in this).<BR>Boy was he MAD!Long story short, he also called OM's wife, I did some confessing and after that HUGE MESS, there was no way that OM and I could continue without divorce etc. etc. So, it ended and I was left with cleaning up the big mess (which I am still doing).That is a very, very abbreviated version of some of the story. Need to get going here!

Back in town from a trip. Wife seems be acting a little nicer. Keeps asking me whats on my mind. Still going with plan to OM's wife. She is out of town for a couple of days. Going to connect with her next week to discuss what I thinking.<P>Question for all the men out there that are going through this. I consider myself an agressive person and have demostrated that in business and other aveneues in my life. I can't help but think that I am still too passive on this whole deal. I have confronted her a number of times on this thing. Gotten very pissed threated etc. None of that has worked over the last eight months. I have also been nice given up sex for awhile with her put up with BS treatment and that has gotten me nothing. <P>Combination Plan's A and B all at once. I will say I feel a hell of a lot better when I realize sometimes that I run my life and whatever happens happens

Zip,<P>My experience is you catch more flies with honey.<P>After several heated exchanges with my wife, I found it was better to be the good guy in the relationship.<P>So far she seems to have responded to this.<P>I bend over backwards to listen, help with housework, cook, clean, be thoughtful to her needs, etc.<P>I don't think you can go on forever without talking about the issue -- but at least this gets you to the point of being friendly. And (big AND) it takes away some of the reasoning for the wife to consider looking elsewhere.<P>Also found that making myself a little less available and more independent worked to some extent.<P>Nothing I've tried has produced miracles -- but it definitely helped more than angry confrontations. If I were to have another confrontation I would do it very calmly.<P>Everything I've read here speaks of affairs as being like fantasy land. It is going to start crumble eventually. It seems that it is often a waiting game.<P>If I were in your shoes I'd definitely be speaking to the wife. That would put pressure on 1/2 of the problem. And all the more likely that the cracks will start to appear in the foundation.<P>Regards,<P>Paul

Hi,<BR>Let me add that if you talk to OM's wife and OM suddenly demonstrates that he is going to stick with his wife and family and that he is NOT choosing your wife it will be a huge wake-up call for your wife. She might just think that OM would pick her over his wife(just part of the fantasy) and it will be huge lovebuster for her to realize that he loves his wife. Put to the test I'll bet OM will start back-pedalling fast and mind his own family and business once his wife gets wise.

Zip --<P>The fact that she is asking about what's on your mind may have just given you the open door. Take it if you can. All the advice on this and other threads suggests goign in that direction. Just try to keep it non-threatening and positive. Non-accusatory.<P>Re:talking to OM's wife... On one hand I agree w/Bonny and others that talking to her is the way to go. But, again I ask: What kind of relationship does your W have with the OM's wife? Who would OM's wife believe? Maybe it's just planting the seed that does the work, I don't know.<P>Do I understand that you're going to talk with OM's wife when your own W is out of town? Would approaching OM's wife while your own W is out of town "backdoor" you at a time when your spouse may be opening up?<BR>

As for being nice and helping her out. I have been doing that for all of this year. In fact in a card my wife says that I am a good person and am trying to make our marriage better. So I have that going for me. The fact is not a bit of that has worked. We don't have any real yelling and screaming sessions. We talk in a very good manaer. The problem is that we don't talk enough about the real issues.<P>To someone's point on withdrawel and being addicted. That is the whole point of where we are. Which phase is she in? Since there has been no admission it is probably in the addicated state. Going to talk to OM's wife when she returns into town. <P>

Zip....<P>Good luck in talking to the OM's Wife....when is she returning anyway?

OK folks I think we have turned the corner! Friday OM's wife got a call from someone saying that OM and my wife are having an affair. She calls my wife, OM among others to ask what the heck is going on. My wife calls me to leave me a couple of messages at work telling me that we need to talk about a bunch of things.<P>Friday night I come home and we talk a lot about us and I tell her that I am there for her etc. Had a great night and good day on Sat. Sunday AM she and OM's wife talk and wife says that she is very sorry about their friendship. She also tells me that she feels that there was an emotional connection to OM and she is very very sorry for everything. Says they talked about both our marriages and that OM's is in trouble. Said that she did confined in him and feel close to him. Does not know what she was thinking.<P>Sunday afternoon OM's wife calls to talk with my wife. Wife not home and then she goes into on how we have to talk. Asked her about what and she said the friedship. She is really broken up about it and needs an ear. I told her I would talk to my wife since there is no need to keep secrets anymore and maybe we can talk tomorrow. Wife comes home and I tell her. We talk for the next two hours while the kids are playing about her feelings for OM. Again confirms the strong feelings that she had for him and that maybe she was in love. Cries a lot and tells me that she is so sorry and feels terrible. Says if I think we should move she will. Does not know what happen to her but said all the things you hear about people that have EA's i.e. thought everything that I did was wrong, looked only at the bad etc. Really cleared so much of what has been going on for the last ten months. Now that the cat is out of the bag everyone is feeling really bad. Not out of the woods yet but what a great day. Everything that I have been thinking for the past ten months has been confrimed. Best news is that she loves me and we will have a better marriage. Know there will still be bumps but the corner has been turned Thanks to everyone for helping me with this. It's not over but there is so much hope. It is great when everyone finally becomes honest about their feelings

Zip...<P>Thanks for the update. I'm sort of glad that it happenned the way it did (I mean, someone else telling OM's wife about the affair before you had to).<P>It sounds like your W is very remorseful about what happenned and wants to rebuild your marriage.<P>This is really great news. I know you two will make it!

Zip,<P>Sounds great!! <P>Best wishes...<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>