I have read countless amounts of posts on this forum. What I have come to realize is that this forum, and all the others, are about "coping" especially for the BS. There is no advice, strategy, formula, or magic pill that will turn a WS around.

When the WS makes the "choice" to have an EA/PA they make an incredibly selfish decision that the BS and children must deal with. Yet, despite the destruction is causes, the WS does it any way. Most of the time the WS never turns back toward the M and either continues with the OP or they break up and the WS finds a replacement.

For the WS we talk about: the fog, fog-babble, re-writing of history, soulmate, justifications, and on and on...

For the BS we talk about: Plan A, Plan B, make the changes, be a better choice for your WS, and on and on...

Mainly, these forums are about how the BS can learn to COPE with the betrayal and pain of infidelity.

My other thread is titled: "Why does the WS get to decide" because when you really look at the situation, I mean really look at it and read the posts here, you will see that the BS is trying to save a marriage. The WS has made a selfish choice and THEN...the WS ultimately decides if they want to try again.

In other words...if the A DOES NOT END there is no chance at reconciliation. So a WS MAY turn back around if the A ends but still they MAY NOT so the BS is still left with no other option but D.

Please all(WS and BS) feel free to comment.

MMF

True, these forums are about coping. But it's more constructive coping than just coping - if that makes sense. The MB plans give the BS a course of action. If followed, the end result IS recovery - either personal or marital. MB also explains how the mind of a once perfectly normal, rational person turns into a lying, cheating, POS wayward. This also helps the BS to cope - in the sense of demystifying what the heck happened.

But I disagree that the WS "gets" to decide everything. Yes, their infidelity was a selfish, unilateral decision they made. But all along the way, the BS has many opportunities to make decisions, selfish or otherwise. And selfish decisions on the part of the BS aren't nearly as extreme as the WS's initial selfish decision as they are part of self-preservation. For example, the BS can choose to D at any time - d-day, during/after Plan A, during/after Plan B - whenever. Or they can choose to ride it out and hope for the best. Or they can choose to follow MB plans and make the best attempt to recover the M. They can also choose to take legal actions to maximize their custody and/or financial outcome - even taking advantage of the WS fog for their own benefit.

It's actually not about the WS having all this power. It's more like a tragedy that struck the family, but the cause of the tragedy is one of the spouses rather than an external factor. Wars and natural disasters have destroyed families in much the same way. A WS's actions are so selfish, it is as if they wished their family was bombed in a war, or lost in an earthquake.

I'm not trying to be funny, but a realist. IS IT POSSIBLE THERE ARE POSITIVES TO COME OUT OF THE A??!! Even if you want the M to work, maybe it adds spark back to it. For me, it was a blessing in disquise. Once I realized how much money I would have if I went to plan D, suspected there was an Ocean of good, single women out there. This is based on my thesis that 80% of men are pure POS, so there would be a large pool of divorcees to pull from. My point is try to think about it outside the box. Yes its tragic, and they did something horrible to you, but its possible that you are better off any way. Other than missing my kids, I've been having the time of my life. Buying a couple of cars I always wanted, buying a new house, making it all bachelor padded w/ pool table, game room, hot tub, etc. I have a beautiful, young GF. My fWxW didn't choose sh other than the A. The main reason she didn't tell me about the A cuz she knew in her heart I would be AWOL. She knew she was a royal B to me and ANY legitimate out thrown my way would be taken. I only wish that I left the day she confessed, but no, she begged me to stay and then all hll broke loose for a couple of months.

POINT IS- NOT ALL WW GET TO CHOOSE PAST THE A AND NOT ALL BS LIVE A CRAPPY, BARELY COPING LIFE AFTER A. SOMETIMES WE JUST HAVE TO COWBOY UP!

DUDE

I've said it before, but it bears saying again -- I am extremely grateful for this forum, MB.com and all the great folks here!

I have no idea where I would be without the support and encouragement I get here. Yes, it's a great place to cope, and vent and get good feedback. And a wonderful place to get a kick in the pants (Lord knows I've needed a few kicks along the way...and probably many more to come).

This forum is great because there are soooo many people who have experienced similar situations. And I can *vent* any time of the day or night and have feedback almost instantly.

I thought about talking to my friend, however, his dad cheated on his mom when he was young and it broke their family. I don't think he could handle knowing me and WW were going through all this. I'd have to spend way too much time explaining Mb.com and Harley principles to him. It would simply be too much work...when the work I want to be doing involves my WW and our marriage.

Yes, there are times when I don't agreew with the opinions expressed on this forum, but that's okay. We all have to get up and look at ourselves in the mirrors every morning.

If I knew of other marriages that were dealing with an A I'd send them here in a heartbeat.

I don't think this is true for the majority of BS's. Initially, yes, life sucks. But one way or the other it eventually turns around. Either because you file for D, or the WS buys back into the marriage.

As for the A having a good result - that was the case in my marriage. It made both of us wake up and see the mistakes we were making, and realize we were running our marriage off into the ditch.

MB has helped me in numerous ways especially 'understanding' the above. Pre-MB I thought my FWH was THE KING of POS wayward losers. I had no idea that the script is pretty much the same for all waywards. Knowing that does help me cope but it also makes be sad knowing the deception is so wide spread.

I don't think the WS controls anything unless the BS lets them. Agree with tabby on all the points she made.

I do not agree with that. The MB concepts do help turn WS's around.


Most of the time??? MMF...you're going by your own experience here not by what the rest of us has experienced.....My WS is not a FWH and my marriage is better than it's ever been and I know that I am not the only one here that this is the case.



You're right....it's about coping BUT also about ways to turn the WS around. About how to make the fog lift

This is not 100% true. Some BS kick the WS to the curb once the affair is known. Some of us try to bring our WS's home. Some succeed and some don't. It's a Decision that the BS makes not the WS. It's the BS's decision to decide if they want to work on the marriage, the WS really has no say.


MMF....From reading this thread and your other, it's very apparent that you're having a hard time. You need to follow the MB principals. You need to read, read and read some more. YOu need to work on YOU along with either PLAN A, PLAN B or PLAN D. You need to decide what is right for YOU and your KIDS.

You have got to stop wallowing in this and start moving forward.

I don't think WS get to decide all the time. Obviously if they leave the M and decide to be with the OP then they get to decide - but only if the BS wants them back. Keep in mind we are on a board where people want to stay M. There are plenty of A that end with the BS saying that's it I'm done. No chance of R or MB going on. And that is their choice.
In my own personal recovery, I think I'm the biggest obstacle right now to R. Not my WW. She generally wants to stay M to me I'm pretty sure. She just was really screwed up for a while. I'm just having a really hard time getting over the betrayal and feeling like a 2nd choice. But that's why I'm on here. Trying to get help in my R.

There is also a population of BS's that don't come here at all. Why? Because upon d-day, they toss their WS's to the curb and don't look back. They are done. In many of these cases, the WS doesn't actually want to leave the M. Look how many cake-eater WS's there are here. What if their BS instantly decided on Plan D? It is within their right. We know it happens. We just don't see them here because they have no desire to rebuild.

Actually looking at all of this, I'd say the BS really does have more decision power than the WS. The only thing they can't do is turn back the clock to before the A.

Generally the BS has the most power upon OUTING. While secret, the WW has ALL THE POWER. I stay on this board now and again to fight for BS and give them the strength they may need. Yes, the BS will sometimes FIGHT BACK, TAKE CONTROL, THEN DECIDE WHAT THEY WANT TO DO. Leave the M or try and reconcile. Thats what heppened w/ me and I'm assuming there are a lot more sich like it, but they arent on MB. This gives BS the false sense that everyone is trying to work it out when 71% of BS say "HAVE A GOOD LIFE!!!" and go straight to plan D. This forum represents the other 30% ONLY!

This is a good point. I think the people on here are in the minority. A lot of BS go straight to the D route. No looking back. I can't really say they are wrong. It is there a decision. Sometimes I wonder myself if its worth the he[[ I'm going through. I hoping there is a light at the end of the tunnel but sometimes can't help wondering if it would just be easy to start over with someone 'normal'. But who knows, they could do the same thing to me. Plus I have 3 small ones who lives would be affected. Not that they wouldn't survive and be ok but I feel I owe to them and 15 years plus with my W to at least give it a shot.

I think that before the A is out in the open the WS does have the control. Control after dday can go either way. But of course if one person wants to end the M then it is always that person that will have control - it is a lot easier to go for D than to stay M if only half the couple wants to stay M.

I'm in a fortunate position - both me and my BS are in joint control - we both want to stay married and let's just clarify aswell that this is in control of the marriage and not each other.

And yes we are all here to cope - I find myself on here looking for helpful hints, leaning info from the experiences of others and hoping that I will get the appropriate kick up the backside or encouragement when needed.

My H works long hours and nights - I come on here because it keeps me company and keeps me focussed when he isn't around

ST

We're probably just arguing semantics here. I agree and disagree with what you say here.


Probably the most significant thing about d-day is the transfer of control from the WS to the BS. It occurs in the very instance that the A is revealed. However, the BS still has "control" whether they attempt marital recovery or not. They do NOT have control over the WS's actions - and they never did. Nobody can control what another person does - ever. The BS may feel out of control because they want the M, but the WS is uncooperative. And we feel out of control when all the other areas of our lives go down the toilet with it - our children, our finances, our living arrangements, our reputations etc.

But again, we never really DID have control of all of this, only how we deal with it. It's why I compared it to wars and earthquakes - when Katrina ripped through the Gulf coast, the people who lived there had their live's ripped apart and shredded, much in the same way infidelity can. The only difference is a hurricane hits quickly and does it's damage right away - infidelity can be death by a 1000 cuts.

Also, the BS who chooses to neither leave the marriage, nor take any steps toward ending the A and rebuilding (ie the ones that sit around and "hope" it gets better), have CHOSEN to do this. While they may feel and seem completely out of control, they can take action one way or another at any time. Of course, it's easy to say this but I do remember the crippling fear from that period of time all too well.

yep yep, same hymn sheet!

st

I always believed that if the A ended my WH would come home. Evidently it's not the case.

I wanted to read the rest of what everyone wrote.

When I came here I was broken as a human being. I couldn't believe that my H would just walk away from our family without giving me a chance to make it up to him. I wanted to die. I didn't know how to function, I didn't know how to live without him. It's not that I wasn't capable because I was president of the PTA, a area director of a international organization, I was head secretary of a school and yet in my mind I was defined by one thing. My marriage and my husband.

People who knew me, we shocked that not only WH had an A but that he walked away and more importantly I was destroyed, utterly destroyed. EVERYONE saw me as the stronger one and in fact if anyone left the M it would be me, because I was so unhappy in my M.

I came here looking for anything that would literally get me through this second and then the next second etc. People helped me formulate my Plan A, and then gently engaged me into accepting that my only other option was Plan B. I kept listening, kept blinding doing because I just wanted to pain, the sadness, the emptiness to go away. And if H would just come home it would be ok.

Feb 12, 2008 I sat down for the last conversation I was to have with my H and asked him what it would take for him to come home. He told me that he was building a relationship with her based on trust, openness and honesty. He allowed coming home to be an option and I bought it. In fact, we discussed buying another house, etc.

I have been in Plan B for 11 months yesterday, I have been separated from the man I loved for almost 2 years now. It SEEMS that the A has ended, but guess what... NO HUSBAND...NO FATHER for my CHILDREN.

This forum saved my life, it helped me to understand that my WH was NOTHING SPECIAL, that I could recover if I worked at it. People have indulged me, held my hand, stayed up all night with me and nailed me when it was time.

What I have learned more than anything is that I have NO CONTROL over another human being. What seems reasonable and makes sense to me MIGHT NOT to THEM. Why of course your A is over, now you would come home and create a new M with me. But that hasn't happened and if it weren't for this forum I would be devastated again.

But I'm not. I have my faith that I will continue to walk in grace and dignity and that one day even if my M is ended I will be ok.

I has no control over WH did, but I had the choice to live again. It's not complete yet, and I'm still hurting and missing him and learning how to live without him, but I TRUST G-d and I know I will survive.

The A wasn't the best thing that happened to me, but what happened was that I was broken and in pain enough I sought out G-d for relief. I like who I have become and that wouldn't have happened without the A. So, am I glad. NO.... I'm at peace it was the journey and I'm at peace I have so much more on the path to experience.

QueeniesNewLife:

Wow, my heart goes out to you. I will admit I haven't read your thread...it's long and I'm scared to even get in to yet anther thread here.

But from just what you have posted here I'm feeling so bad for you. To have your WH just walk away...heartwrenching!

Yet you continue to take breaths and move forwards! Just after DDay I watched the scene in Castaway where Hanks is talking about "I've got ice in my glass...and i've lost her all over again. I just have to keep breathing...you never know what the tide might bring in."

You, sister, are a shinning example of that kind of resolve! Keep on moving forward! I'm impressed with your fortitude.

bump

OH goodness, thank you so much DN.. We are all totally in this together.

I'm nothing special, and yet we are all miracles.

G-d is my shepherd....

And I think it was Arc who often said.... Be still and keep breathing. We just never know what's around the corner if we let it happen.

any WS or FWS care to comment?