Thank you again to everyone for their very thoughtful replies. They have really helped.

LG, our son is employed as a bona fide employee. My H has a business partner who wouldn't tolerate slacking by our son. Your points about the rent are spot on.

I'm just overwhelmed by the time everyone has taken to give such thoughtful replies.

One thing I've heard suggested by radio psychologists is to pay for 2 months rent somewhere and then he is own his own. You can get him started then he can take over from there....or not, I suppose. But as you say, he is working in your bookstore so he is earning enough money to pay rent somewhere....even if he has to rent a room in a shared apartment...he can probably find one of those on craigslist. Find something he can afford on his own.
That would be a good baby step, IMO.

GG yes its typically mum.

I' m a soldiers mum, and I'm doing fine
You've taught me to be brave
Just sometimes, my boy , my precious son,
the fear comes in a wave.

I m sorry, that you heard me cry,
I never got to explain,
I stubbed my toe, really hard and was crying from the pain.

A soldiers mum, I am,
A soldiers mum, I'll be
Until the day, my baby boy
Comes marching home to me

Jen my kids live at home still and its no problem, noisy but no problem!!

Liz and her hubby ... JJ and Hayls ... but right now housing is expensive... rentals hard to get ... and the DoD housing HAH!!
They pay rent. Aussie and I have plans for that money for each of them but I can't say because SOMEONE may read it

and when the boys are away doing stuff we don't want to hear about... well its a huge comfort for all of us to be together.

I'm guessing its more about not letting him run YOUR lives Jen.
I wonder if its because your son needs to have a very controlled environment?

Jen, I agree that you are enabling your son's fragility.

LIving with you is one thing, but the temper tantrums and rages should GO.

Years ago, I had a child care business. I learned very quickly that a whiny, screaming child would have all the other kids very upset and throw the whole day out of whack.

One day, a little girl came in, distraught because her mother had scolded her. Nothing I could do or say would comfrot her or stop the crying. The other children were very concerned and also trying to soothe her. After a while, it became time to prepare the morning snack, and here she was...still clinging to me.

I took her into the naptime room, got her sleeping mat out, and told her, "If you feel like crying, that is OK. But seeing and listening to you cry is making us sad and upset. If you want to cry, you can cry all you want; BUT, you will have to lie on your mat and cry in here all by yourself. When you are finished crying and are ready to be happy again, you can come out and play."

I left the room and shut the door. It was less than a minute before she opened the door and said, "I'm ready to be happy now. Can I come out and play?"

Another time, a little boy was furious because he didn't get to go with his daddy that day. He was screaming and crying and draping himself around my ankles. I had to prepare lunch, so sitting down and continuing to try to comfort him was not an option. I picked him up and carried him to the naptime room and told him, "If you want to cry and scream, and be mad, that's OK. But, you will have to do it here, where I can't see or hear you."

I had to take him back to the room a few times, but he finally decided that playing would be more fun, and the temper tantrum stopped. He was fine the rest of the day.

I know your son is a grown man, but you should not have to tiptoe around him and his moods in your own house! I'd tell him that if he wants to rant and rave, he can do so elsewhere; and that when he is ready to behave with respect toward you and his father, he can return home.

It might even do him some good to see y'all pitch a good temper tantrun right back at him!

Lady C, thanks, that was all good advice. He doesn't have temper tantrums now - that was when he was little. He does have moods though. It's hard to define what "creeping around our own house" means. It's not starting the washing machine before he's up, it's letting him watch what he wants on TV (OMG I can't believe we let him do that), it's washing his dishes - we've tried leaving them but they just sit. When I say I have to ask permission to use the computer, he'll be on it and I'll say "will you be long?" and he'll say "yes, I'm doing something".

I go to start dinner and he'll decide that's when he's going to cook. I wait.

As for our sex life, well, I'm sorry but he just has to put up with the noise lol! There are some things even I won't give way on!

His bike gear and music gear migrate to all our living areas. I ask him to put it all away and he does but before long it's all out again.

Wow, putting it into words has made me realise how bad we've let it get. He's living as an independent person, which would be just fine if he was living in his own place but he can't live as an indpendent person because there are three of us living here. The relief I feel when I see his car is out when I get home, the relief when he goes away for weekends... we live under constant stress!

OMG, we've got some work to do!!!!!!!!!!

Well, Jen, you obviously need to set some guidelines.

For instance, if the sound of the washing machine bothers him, suggest that he invest in some ear plugs, but you are going to do laundry when it suits you.

Let him know ahead of time that YOU will be watching such-and-such a program on TV at such-and-such a time. If he doesn't like it, tell him to buy his own TV set for his bedroom.

If the computer is yours, tell him that you need the computer and that he will need to finish what he's doing within..say, the next 15 or 30 minutes. NO ASKING. Politely TELLING, in a firm, yet pleasant voice.

If you're about to cook dinner and he decides to cook, tell him to be sure and cook enough for the three of you.

Tell him that if he wants to cook/eat from your dishes, he needs to clean up what he messes up. Only consequence I can suggest is to let them sit until he runs out of clean dishes...and when he complains, tell him that it was his job to clean them up. Meanwhile, you might want to invest in some paper plates, but HIDE THEM for you and your husband to use.

As for his bike/music gear, tell him that he will have to either keep them put away or find somewhere OUTSIDE the house to keep them, and that you will no longer ask him to put them away, but will put them OUTSIDE. And, DO IT!

My husband had an uncle who had epilepsy. The family was rather ignorant about such things, and the uncle learned very early that if he pitched a big fit, he would get his way. After a while, he no longer had to pitch a fit, because he had conditioned the family to tip-toe around him. My husband, on the other hand, didn't tip-toe around him. My husband wouldn't put up with the uncle's garbage and let the uncle know it. Consequently, he did not "misbehave" when my husband was around.

Now, this uncle did, later in life, apparently develop some mental problems; but, my husband believes (and I don't think he's far off the mark) that because the family was afraid of his rages and did not discipline him, he never learned how to properly deal with life. I really don't know how to describe what I mean, so I don't know if that theory makes sense to anyone else.

Try to get the Cloud and Townsend book "Boundaries". It starts out with a couple who are going for counseling because there son has a problem. They explain all of his problems to the counselor, who then asks where he is. Turns out the son is at a resort skiing.

I think the book will be very helpful for you. There is also a workbook that goes with it.

In other words... my house, my rules.

We have our 16 yr. old nephew living with us temporarily. We've really had to put our foot down with him on some of the dumbest things that most people would consider just common courtesy. Instead of getting frustrated ALL THE TIME, we decided to quit threatening and do.

Example: He leaves his clothes in the dryer instead of taking them out and taking them to his room.

Consequence: We take his clothes out of the dryer and throw them on the floor.

Example: He leaves his lights on in his room when he leaves for school.

Consequence: We take out his lightbulbs.

Example: He leaves his stuff laying around the living room.

Consequence: It goes in the trash.

Example: He doesn't get up on Sunday morning to go to church (he loves going).

Consequence: We leave him at home.

It only took a couple of times for these "lessons" to sink in. He gets it now. He can do what he wants, there will just be consequences to his choices.

It's really not his fault because he was raised with absolutely NO CLUE about manners, hygiene, etc. We got him when he was 12, but he's 16 now. It's time.