Just picked up LB, started reading it... haven't got hubby to sit down and take the ENQ. I have *just* started the LB book...

Am I starting right? Where do/should I start. I wish we could go for a weekend, but it's prohibitive financially. I feel like I am swimming in confusion. Heck, am I even posting this in the correct place? I didn't see an "I'm a new inductee to HeLLo There" section.

For what it's worth, my nutshell is below. I thought until January 1 that hubby and I were reasonably happy. I never saw this coming. We were still connecting, we were still having good sex, things seemed OK... and then we've been onthis horrid rollercoaster ever since... I believe FWIW DH has had a fantasy emotional affair with his college F---buddy who thankfully isn't local... UGH... that's the nutshell plus version...

Hi WhiteRussian...

Love your drink by the way...

If you don't mind, you may get more feedback if you copy and paste this post over onto the Emotional Needs forum. That gets a lot more traffic than here... or if there's infidelity involved, the General Questions II forum is great.

I just now saw that your H may be involved in an EA at least. So maybe GQ is called for.

I'm glad you're still here. Please keep posting, maybe on a higher traffic part.

Agreed. Ask the mods to move your thread to the Infidelity / General Questions II section so you can get the best answers.

As to your question, ideally you learn about Love Busters first, and stop any Love Busting you do to your husband. Once you have that under control, then work on meeting all his Emotional Needs.

Hi White Russian,

Welcome to MB. I'm sorry you find yourself here, but you will soon come to understand how much a blessing this place is. I am Jewish as well. I have found these books and many people on here to be supportive of me and my situation.

I have run into situations where some people might have their thoughts and biases, but overall people have been nothing but understanding and respectful of my beliefs. In fact, I felt like so many have embraced me for my Jewishness and we work together, because the common goal was to save my marriage.

In fact, look at what they created this year. :happyhanukkah:

I hope you stick around, come join us on the forums, and realize that we are all in this together, loving, supportive and encouraging us all through this journey.

Thanks everyone... I'll email the mods

We are moving your thread to General Questions 11, White Russian.

How are you doing?

WRussian: Sorry you are here. But you have come to the right place.

If your husband has uttered the words in you sig: "Jan 1, my DH said "I think we should separate... I'm not sure if I have romantic love for you."

...well, that is not good. Something smells rotten in denmark here. I'd start snooping in order to gather more information and save your marriage.

Check out the snooping 101 thread here.

Some helpful hints I have gathered:

- install keylogger on any computer he has access to. Keylogger will record every keystroke, everything he does on the computer. Will get your his e-mail password if you don't already have it...
- check cell phone and credit card invoices VERY carefully. Look for anything out of the ordinary.
- install a voice activated recorder in his vehicle
- install GPS in his car


Remember, something is wrong here. By snooping you are trying to uncover the reasons your hubby has given you the "I'm not sure if I have romantic love for you" phrase.

Snoop and be prepared for the worst -- that he is indeed having an affair.

And read, read, READ, READ and READ everything you can here.

WOW You're hardcore! I did deal with the computer, but the vehicle I have not.

I believe there has been an emotional affair over the email ending a few weeks ago. I think I could class him as in withdrawl now. He found his college F***buddy online and chatted her up behind my back for 6 weeks. He claims there was no affair, even emotional, but the conclusion of their email period was a result of his feeling poorly about hiding it from me and lying to me about it, though now that I know he still often tries to argue he has the right to communicate with her "as a friend." The girl is straight up BAD NEWS. She's broken up marriages, and spends more time entertaining on her back than anyone I've ever known who wasn't actively strolling the boulevard. She SERIOUSLY has sex to gain attention and to "best" the women in the mens lives. In other words if he did sneak of and go south 300 miles to meet up with her, she'd view it as a sure fire sign she is hotter and better than me. She's beyond ridiculous ***sigh*** and although at this precise moment I swear I feel flickers of hope, I have learned in all of this to not get to excited that he is rounding the bend back to sanity again...

At present I am fighting with gusto to see if there is any organization that would help us with the fee for the weekend... but when I went to look at the registration page, the fee is no longer specified so that will complicate my begging efforts ***snort*** It's a longshot that we would be able to go, but man oh man would I love to ***sigh***

Hi White Russian,

Just checking in on you to see how you are doing? How's Plan A coming along? How's the readings....

Yes, I'm hardcore when it comes to affairs! I should be, cause I'm dealing with affair number TWO.

And if this gal is "bad news" then all the more reason to snoop your tail off!

I've keylogged my WW's computers, snooped her smartphone and check her e-mail regularly -- and her OM lives literally thousands of miles away and HE ended the A back @ thanksgiving 2008. And I'm STILL snooping!

WW and I spend literally 95-99% of our time together when she's not at work. No way am I letting another fox in the hen-house. Heck, I'm trying to put up boarders to keep foxes out of this county!

Snoop, snoop, snoop, snoop, snoop...and when you think you trust him just a little bit, SNOOP some MORE! Protect your marriage.

I think online affairs can be more toxic than "in-person" affairs. People can be whoever they want to be online.
You should see a MC if he will agree to go. If he won't, go yourself. I still go to the MC that we went to after D-day, but I usually go by myself. WS is just kind of along for the ride...I am the one that has always taken the initiative to repair the damage done to the relationship. I have grown tired of that so I go for my own well-being. It has done wonders for me, although the marriage is still in SERIOUS trouble.
You will find some good advice here. Many stories and lots of support....I wish you well.

We have been in MC since this started. It's just so hard. I feel like our efforts are so lopsided. ME ME ME ME ME... a week from yesterday is our 9th anniversary and he wants to do something but can't "give of himself" and of course I have to plan it... I just wish I could get a bit reciprocated. And I wish he was consistent in what he said to me and what he says in emails to friends. He did say he is willing to read the books, but then he's dragging his feet on the ENQ because it has to be HIS decision to do it. Personally I wonder if this isn't a crock because I feel like he consciously avoids things that could truly cause him to fall back in love. We still have sex, but I'm not really allowed to initiate or I'm being pushy... and he seems to avoid eye contact with me, which really sucks, but again I think that's avoiding emotional ties back into being an us... UGH

Sorry that you find yourself here, but it is a good place to get help.

Do you have any children?

What do you mean that you wish he could be consistent in what he says to you as compared to what he says in e-mails to friends?

Make no mistake, this is an emotional affair.

Do you have copies of the e-mails that he wrote to her?

Do not think that she would not drive up to see him, even if you know he has not driven down to see her.

My H's emotional affair partner drove a couple hundred miles to "have coffee" with him.

Is this OW married or in any relationship herself?

How are you doing with making sure that you take care of yourself--the Plan A for yourself? Keeping your looks together, exercising, work, hobbies, female friends?

We have a child, 5.

I *know* it was an emotional affair, but he won't admit it, because he says it was all about him setting good boundaries with her as opposed to the negative boundaries they had as college f___buddies when he was always seeking and lusting after her and she was giving him a little then treating him like crap and stringing him along. I have ZERO belief they are capable of a platonic relationship that is not threatening to us. They are not still in contact at this point, but he "strongly desires her friendship."

As for consistency in what I hear and see versus what I read when I snoop, I keep hearing that he is working on it yada yada yada, but then I read that he has stopped looking into leaving because there were no good and affordable options. To me, this isn't a congruent message. Furthermore, he lays out in emails that he has a "sliver of hope" but truly "not very optomistic," which to me is a strong vein of the negative and incongruent with working hard and being open-minded to our recovery.

As far as whether OW has come here, nope. I know with near 100% certainty that she hasn't, because she can't drive and she is a single mom with no one to watch her child. I do, however, have zero doubt that if he were to go to her, she'd do him with her kid in the next room without hesitation. She really is a slutty woman, and many friends of ours who know her better than I do have confirmed that enthusiastically. OW LIVES to be NOTHING but trouble for people. I so truly wish the earth would lose its gravitational pull on her and VOILA. She's just a no good slut. And, a very real part of me does wonder/worry if we can make it if H never admits to me or to himself that it was an emotional affair. She is in an on and off relationship, but that really is irrelevant, because there is zero dispute that she regularly screws around on whomever she is "with."

I keep seeing talk of Plan A, but I have yet to find it in full form to read. Anyone wanna point me in a direction? As far as keeping my looks together, H claims it's of no consequence whether I wear make-up or not, but I now do on a daily basis. I know when I go out, I get more attention that way, so I know I'm not a hideous creature. I told my best pal the day that this all came out that I was giving myself one day to wallow in it and that effective the next morning I was in FULL "fake it til I make it," putting effort into a fully made-up appearance every day thereafter. I have held to it, too. Only 2 days since the first of the year have I skipped make-up, and one was the day after a hospital trip, so that better be allowed :P I know my weight needs some work, and after Passover I am going back on the big diet. I have multiple metabolic disorders, so weight is such a struggle for me.

Here is Plan A in a nutshell so to speak:


The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

Well here's todays bulletin, and I *hope* it's as positive as I feel it is...

We went on our weekly date (something we implemented when all this blew up) and at the end of the evening H said he felt so bad for not being able to reciprocate the love I show him. He's "just not there right now." Tears in his eyes, the whole works... so I gently wound it around to the ENQ I have been waiting weeks for... and rather than doing what he usually does (fight, complain and say I'm pushing) he said he's going to start on it tonight... take a break, crash down in the basement and start on it tonight. I was a little upset with the sleeping in the basement part, but didn't dare hiss a whisper at that because I am finally getting some progress from him on something I want and need to make this work. Wish us luck.