Hello, folks,

I have been reading quite a few posts and the topic of grizzly details has been bandied about. Pro and Con

Do you think it is best (when you have decided to recover, that is) to ball those things up as the "past" and get over them? Or does knowing these things help?

It may repair honsety-- but it trashes respect. IMHO

Problem is- once the cat is outa' da bag-- she does not want to go back in there. (Unless it is my cat, any bag on the floor is a great condo)

Opinions?
Thanks,

I think this is an excellent topic and i am not sure how to respond.

I felt like i needed to know the grizzly details however my FWH would not share them with me and i think that sometimes hurts our recovery because i feel he is STILL lying to me about things.

On one hand i agree with you about it helping to bring back trust because they are FINALLY being honest with you regarding the A.

On the other hand like you said once you "hear" some of the responses they are forever burned into your memory and could be a bad thing.

I would like to hear what others have to say on this.

There are pros and cons to both. But a lot I think depends on your personality. Some people can put things past them much easier and look to the future and live in the present. Others are a bit more obsessive and dwell in the past a little more. Analyzing, comparing, etc. I for one wanted all the details. And I do not regret it. I would much rather know what happened then wonder what happened. Wondering leads you sometimes to become obsessed about the details. Because you just don't know. And your imagination will usually paint the worst case scenario. Like they had sex 5 times a day and it was the best ever. And probably 99% of the time that is not the case. And your WS has the ability and some would argue obligation to ease your pain.

As for the images - and them being burned in. I can see that point. And there are certain images that due pop into my mind since I found out everything. But I find myself thinking about less and less. Listen - we all know what sex is, it feels good. People feel good doing it or else they wouldn't. I think if you approach asking your WS the 'details' and are expecting them to say it sucked and I hated it then you are fooling yourself. Most likely it was just sex. Two A partners being selfish and either using each other for sex or trying to trick themselves into thinking they were more 'connected' or intimate with each other by having sex.

I think by getting the details it might be a temporary set back in recovery - it is not going to make you feel good hearing this stuff. But I think long term it can be helpful to recovery. Your WS is being completely open and honest with you. Your WS and the OP have nothing special or secret between them. In a small way your WS has 'betrayed' the OP by sharing everything with you.

What matters is that the WS is willing to give the BS the level of detail he wants and needs. It is entirely up to each individual to decide what he needs to recover. One person may need an outline, the next person may need exhaustive detail. It is entirely individual.

However, it is the BS who should decide, never, ever the WS. The WS is not qualified.

In some ways the respect for the WS does get trashed by knowing specifics that make you But time fades those memories. It's only been about a yr for me, but the hurtful details don't sting as much as they used to. I won't forget them but my mind is free of all the "what ifs" that drove me crazy before disclosure.

I gained some respect back for my FWH because he was willing to give me the details I wanted even if it made him look like more of an ahole than I already thought. I could have torpedoed FWH in court, with our family/friends, and at work with those details in a giant FU sendoff. He knew this yet was still willing to give me the information.

Plus there was the possibility of OW trying to stomp on me due to her bitterness that she was dumped. If FWH left me out in the street to be ran over by a bus driven by skankho of all people...I would have been livid. There were still bombs to deal with along the way but I wasn't going to put up with that.

Before finding MB, I used those gory details against FWH to taint every single memory he had of OW. I don't know if it made much of a difference because I do believe FWH was remorseful very soon after Dday for his A and all the disgusting behavior surrounding it. But in my mind, I wanted to destroy any "good" thoughts he had of OW and I knew what buttons I could push. The thought of her makes him ill. But OW probably helped that along more than I did. LOL Poetic justice.

Deciding to recover was difficult and is still an ongoing battle at times. If a BS wants the details, I think the earlier the better. If too much time passes, I think the WS would be less inclined to disclose, can invoke the "I can't remember" defense more often, and by default expect the BS to move on without knowing any more since they have managed to thus far. Plus it takes the recovery back to Dday. Who wants to revisit that nightmare months or years later?

Agree 100%. Spot on as usual Melody.

Timely subject since my WW just last night gave me all the nitty-gritty details of A#2.

Back up to A#1 and the details really hurt...but I NEEDED to hear them. WWs A#1 lasted almost a year for the PA. They did things sexually that WW and I did not do, and that was

However, good counselor and lots and lots of talking with WW helped me work through the pain of those images in my mind. I simply needed to know.

FF to A#2 and @ DDAy I did not want to know the details. As time went on I realized that I DID need to hear the details. My mind kept playing all the wildest scenarios over and over. The final straw was two dreams this past weekend -- dreamt that the OM was braggin on his sexual prowess, how he satisfied the WW like none other...ICK!

Thankfully the wife was open and honest last night. And the truth was about, oh, let's say a hundred times less than I imagined. It was good for me to hear the truth instead of making up the truth in my mind.

And I think it was helpful for my WW to finally get that off her chest. I felt much better after that conversation. Wife was ashamed, but felt relieved to have that out in the open.

I can honestly say knowing the details is helping me...at least today

ITA with your post especially the above. There's nothing funny ha ha about an A or the devastation it creates (especially early on after Dday) but looking back I do find myself LMAO at how seriously pathetic their "relationship" was. Yeah APs are soulmates....BAAAWWAAHHHHHH

Its not honesty that trashes respect for the WS, but the WS' own behavior. Of course lying and cheating destroy a spouse's respect. IT SHOULD! No one should respect a liar and a cheater. I lost ALL respect for my H. He was disgusting to me.

When one acts disrespectfully, others will lose respect, that is a natural consequence and the WS should not be protected from the consequence of his own behavior. That is called enabling.

But being honest is the first step in earning respect.

~emphasis mine

I would agree that this hurts your recovery SC...Not because you don't know the details, but because to know or not should be your choice...What hurts your recovery is your husband's UNWILLINGNESS to share with you...As Mel pointed out, it is the BS's choice, NOT the WS's...The WS is not qualified at all to decide what you should or shouldn't know...It is the WS's OBLIGATION to be WILLING to share EVERYTHING about the affair with you...

Mrs. W

You are correct that it helps to repair honesty...but INcorrect in that getting the details trashes respect.

The AFFAIR trashed respect; the rest is just "details".

Honesty is what I wanted most. The wondering and imagining is so much worse for me. Facts and honesty are so much easier for me to deal with than the uncertainty. My imagination was much crueler than the truth. That is just me though. I have only just found out, but knowing is a relief. Facing the whore and seeing her with my own eyes was also a relief. Telling her husband gave me peace too. I didn't want to keep their lies for them or help her get away with anything.

<Emphasis mine>

This is how it was for me too. I got EVERY.SORDID.DETAIL.

It was horrible and in some ways it still is. I have a nice frame-by-frame movie playing in my head now.

But I am a serious 'details kind of girl" and I KNEW that I needed them. I didn't really WANT them, but I NEEDED them.

It was driving me crazy because my mind wanted to play over every scene with every imaginable variable, and that was worse for me.

Good point. I stand corrected. If my FWH hadn't acted like a pig then I wouldn't have lost respect for him. If he had continued his disgusted behavior and dishonesty I would never have gained any respect back for him. We'd be in Plan D if that was the case.

I have always felt this way too, but I don't think it's a "small" way.

It was completely disrespectful to the OW for FWH to tell me all of the details...down to what kind of underwear she was wearing and how small her chest is.

It's a small thing, but it's been helpful in my recovery.

It's not an either/or situation.

Knowing all the details hurts more and also helps.

Equally.

And, as a point of precision, I doubt any BS knows ALL the details. It's impossible.

In order to restore trust, there can't be any secrets between the OP and the WS to which the BS is not privy to. The BS has a right to each and every detail because it is information about her life too.

True. I still don't know if OW liked Jif vs Skippy.

Oh Man! Talk about karma...
I was actually going to post this very question today, as this is my biggest struggle right now. To know, or not to know...

I keep asking the "detail" questions, and FWW has basically shut me down, asking "what good would it do us?" Her IC has even said that I don't need to know; that it wouldn't help. I know that it's just a CYA tactic. She's afraid that I wouldn't be able to handle the ugly truth, and would throw in the towel.

But I need to know.

Or do I?

Yes.

No.

Maybe.... I'm just not sure.

I am one of those detail oriented people that has a hard time moving past things. I do obsess about the past. But which is worse, obsessing about what you KNOW, or what you THINK YOU KNOW? I've managed to weasel some information out of her on one specific incident by being sneaky with my line of questioning, but when asked directly, I get "I'm not going to answer that". The problem is, I'm 99% sure that the one specific incident happened, and it bothers me VERY MUCH. So would I be better off just having here come out and say "yes, it happened". I'M NOT SURE! Would I hold it against her? Well, frankly, I already am. So, what to do?

I apologize for not really giving an opinion on the subject. Just letting you know that I'm struggling with this RIGHT NOW, and I'm very interested in other people's opinions/advice....

I agree that we can never know all details. I mean people really do forget things. Can any of us remember exactly what positions we had sex with our S 18 months ago on a particular day? I think its more important that the WS is willing to share the details. That the WS can not 'protect' the BS. Bc the WS was not willing to protect the BS during the A so they don't have that right. In reality they are more trying to 'protect' themselves by not sharing the details. They probably don't want to deal with any more guilt. But that is taking the easy way out. You do the crime you do the time.

Another point why I think it is important to tell the details is that it can prevent more d-days. I have already had this happen to me - the OMW has emailed me a couple of time with details that has set me back bc my WW didn't tell me. I don't she was covering up just that she didn't think it was relevant. But it was to me. I wouldn't be surprised if the OM tries to do the same thing to me. Just imagine your R is going really well and 2 years down the road the OP lets you know some really sordid details. And they turn out to be true. That is going to set back your R so far you probably will be starting over. But - if the WS is open and honest from the beginning no amount of info the OP can give you will hurt you. Bc it is already out there. And I think this should be a factor in telling the details. No more lies and secrets.