And I have asked this before, can a BS be in a fog of their own?

Man I am having an extremely hard time thinking about this stuff, and learning how to do it, I am not normally this stupid, but maybe I am when it comes to marriage.

BS are most definitely in fog.

Getting rid of desperateness in action is fairly key.

BS fog, not likely, unless you are having an affair also(?) You better not be! More likely you are getting depressed. Some here compare an A to the loss of a child. It's terribly hard on your mental state of being. Especially if it blind-sides you as it does many BS.

Might see your doctor and explore anti-depressants. I was a wreck for about the first week to two after DDay. Seriously considered Anti-Ds, but have never been on them. So resisted.

I have ups and downs...today being a down. Went back and erased all pictures of the OM from computer. The trips me and OM took hunting and teh family vacation -- he no longer exists on my computer. And wiped his information from my contacts list. Oh,I still have his GF's e-mail -- he, heee hee he...plotting revenge...okay, not really.

BAck to you.

Many here say counseling is useless until the WW stops seeing the OM. I'd ditch your current counselor and have a phone conversation with Harleys. They seem to be very highly recommended by people here.

Can give you good coaching on how to break this affair.

If I may withinu, what you need is to look at the situation as if you were giving someone else advice. What would you say to your best friend if he was going through this? The next suggestion I would make is to not call her at all. Let her do all the calling. Let her leave voice mail. This way you can get advice before you call her back. DNU can give you a lot of food for thought. Remember, she cheated on you. You are no longer desperate to have her back. You have boundaries, and she broke them. Ask yourself this. With her attitude this way, if she did come back, how long do you think it would be b4 she bolted again. She has to WORK to get you back. If she is not willing to do that, you don't want her anyways.

Yes, I can fully agree with that, she chose this route, not me. She has to win me back.

And yes, if she did decide to come back, I am not sure with this attitude it would last very long, if she isn't trying to look at herself, or trying to change. Then there isn't any point of me trying so hard.

I went and had my counsel with my lawyer.
He advise me not to file yet, legal seperation wasn't worth the effort unless you need imediate protection as in custody, and since we were splitting the custody, and according to my assets he did not think I had anything to worry about. Due to even if she wanted part of this, she could not afford it. And due to the housing market, what we owe on the house is probably more than it is worth at this point in time.

And plus, he got the impression we did not want a divorce due to her paying two months worth of rent and her not moving into her apartment, he said something isn't right, and he felt she did not want to move out on her own.

But everything he said, and I realize he is not a counselor, everything he said, mirrored everything you guy's are telling me.

He told me to leave her alone, don't call, let her call me, take care of my stuff, and keep smiling, as if nothing is wrong, even if it is.

He was almost as good as my counselor is. Must have some experience in this type of thing.

He was good to talk to.

Remember. "The happier you get the more she will regret"

Awsome advice. Need to write that down. But you guy's do need to school me on "HOW" to speak.

Something I have reflected on, with my job, I tend to have to make decisions on the spot, I work for a manufacturing company in the supplier quality position. I think I have just grown used to speaking the way I do, from doing it so much in my job.

I tend to tell people what to do, and when to do it, and why they should not have done it that way, and how are they going to correct it.

I do think part of that I brought home with me.

Now I just need to figure out how to get out of that habit, or at least turn that off, before I get home.

Any advice?

Update:

Well I have not spoke to the W, since the last phone call about her missing the counseling session. Until tonight, she called and to let me know we have an appointment to get the tax's done, tomorrow at 1:00pm.

I did not answer her call let it go to voice mail.
I then called back a few minutes later.

She repeated what she said in the message, and I said, that was great, that maybe we will get a lot back this year, she kind of mumbled a yeah .....sounded down, as usual.

So I said ok, wanna pick me up or would you prefer to meet there?
She said that meeting there would be better since she had to be back to her mom's by 3:30 because her mom needed to go somewhere, this was to relieve her of watching the kids.

But I went on to say, OK I will meet you there at 1, then I thanked her for calling and talking to me, and wished her a great night. She sounded kind of puzzled as she said OK?

I hope this is what Plan A is all about.

I would be kidding you, if I said I was not thinking about letting go of the marriage.

Right now it just seems it would be alot easier to let her go and have her fun if that truely is what would make her happy.

For me, I am doing alot better, I still miss her and love her, but it's not so painful anymore.

Please read from this site articles: Why a woman leaves a man.

Usually there are needs that are consistently unmet. You need to reliably meet those needs. NO. You have to win her back!

Continue reading the articles.

Thats a great start. All suggestions of "ride alongs" and any other "together things" should really be brought up by her. The point is. You want to drop any pretense that you need her to be happy. She needs to chase you. And when she catches you. You want leave a nice taste in her mouth, so that she wants to chase you again. Always dress nice when you see her. YOU ARE A CATCH! If she confides in you that she is having a rough time, tell her you know and that you worry about her. Then its back to happy confident you. Do not confuse that with "I want you to press me to comeback". You will know when she wants it because she will tell you.

She needs to see you moving on with your life. Never tell her you love her unless it comes from her first. However, if you are looking nice and she asks you "are you seeing anyone else?", look at her strange and tell her with a serious face "no. I love you" and then just as quick go back to being a happy confident guy. Her question was not an authorization to ask,beg,plead her to comeback. It was an inquiry only. You really have to have no expectation while she is not committed to reconciling. If she brings up the trip together, tell her that it would be really nice and that you're sure you would have a lot of fun, and then drop the subject all together. If she asks if you would like to plan it together. Tell her to surprise you and that you would be happy to be with her anywhere she wants to go. DO NOT GET BAITED IN.

The happier you get the more she will regret.

Thanks Ouch, and to everyone else for responding to me.

I think I get the point now.

I have to admit it is very difficult to not say I love you, or touch her.


We met at the tax ladies, and did our tax's, all the while I looked at the tax lady and just talked her leg off, and asked about her husband, and how he was doing.
She told us he fell and broke his leg a few months back and was needing a walker to get around, I commented that I was sorry to hear that, and asked her if there was anything I could do around the house for them while he was recovering, and she said no, that she had plenty of help from her sons.
I then went on to tell the tax lady that I would keep her and her husband in my prayers.

My W just stared at me. With a , wow, kind of look.

But I kept my focus on the tax lady. Then while we were going through our tax's I helped figure up her expences for her business account.

She told me thank you, I said you are most welcome. Went back to talking to the tax lady.
Then we finished up our tax's, and we could not finish them due to my W forgetting to get the daycare cost's. I appologized to the tax lady and told her that I had forgot to get them, again my W was staring at me.

So I need to call the tax lady, Monday with the daycare cost's.

We were leaving and the W, stopped and started talking to me, my heart was about ready to jump out of my chest, I was overcome by joy, that she wanted to just talk, I talked her leg off, said nothing about us, talked about the girls, and asked for her opinion about taking the jacuzzi out of the bathroom and building the tiled walk in shower in. She really started talking about that, so I proceded to paint a picture of the color scheme I was going with, and she liked it.

But near the end, i think I messed up, after reading your post Ouch.

I told her I had a DVD of the Notebook (movie), which is her favorite movie, and told her I was going to watch it later, and if her and the girls wanted to come down, that would be fantastic.

She said OK, which she says ok to everything, here lately.

Then I told her I would talk to her later, and then got in the car, and followed her to the highway.

So all in all it wasn't too bad, except for the invite to watch the movie.

It is darn hard to keep from saying I love you.

So did I do alright? I know the movie invite may have been over the line. But i am working on it.

Yes. Would of not said talk later.

You did better. You need to not call her. Try to limit interaction as much as possible. She needs to miss you caring about her. Also do not shield her when she screws up. She has to own what is hers. But a very good start. No phone calls. Let her call you. The more confident and the less you come off as mr. needy the more she will worry that you are moving on. And you know what? You are.

Update:

I have confirmed that my W is still seeing the ExBF.
She claims that nothing is happening, they are just talking about old times, and are just friends.

Ummmm yeah riiiiight!!!!!

I wasn't born yesterday.

Anyways, I am confused and hurt, still keeping a low profile, have not let on that I know.

One thing that confuses me, is that she called me this morning, asking when if our counseling session was tonight?
I told her no, it got moved to thursday. She said ok, she needs to plan her work around it.

In my mind I am thinking why bother.......... My rollercoaster has went back through the pain station, to collect more heartache, as if it didn't get enough the first time.

Ok advice on how to handle this at the counselor's?

Say nothing? Or open up that can?

ExBF may get another visit.

Just wondering.....

I had this thought about gathering up all or most of the wedding stuff, pictures, champayne glass's, ect.... and putting them in her car.

I also thought about putting my wedding rings on a necklace and hanging them from the rear view mirror.

Do you think this is a wrong idea?

No because she will down the line either pawn them or give them to her next husband.

Ok, I thought I was getting better, but maybe I was just fronting myself.

I have had this overwhelming wave of depression hit me the past few days.

Today is the worst I have felt since we seperated.
I truely am thinking I hate myself for failing.
I disgust myself, to the point I hate looking in the mirror.

I have even had many thoughts about leaving........life.

This pain is too painful...... why was I so stupid for not putting more effort into my marriage. Maybe this is what I deserve.

I would confront xBF about your marriage. Tell him that he is getting in the way.

Depression is usual. Come to scripture and regain strength. Pour out all your fears in prayer. I can testify that strange things have happened when I did.

NO YOU DON'T! You ain't "leaving...life," no way brother! Look how far you have come! Do NOT give up, never give up!

Remember, remember, remember...your WW is brain-damaged right now. Be strong, go visit the xBF and show him your strength. Show him you are calm, cool and James Bond-esque.

Be strong!

What have you changed? Have you started a new hobby? Started going to the gym or just going jogging? Sign up for a community college class? Do something new for yourself to shake things up. You need it.