you can dress a pig up like a queen but it is still a pig (or seahag)

Yeah thats pretty funny oh wise Lildoggie.Okay so I shortened my conditions to try and go straight to it with out fluff. Short and sweet. Here is what I think I may go with.

Mr. T2L,

I love you unconditionally, I hope that you can see that in me.

The Sea Hag must be erased from our lives so that you would have to live a double life and make huge lies to make it possible. The kids and I need you to protect us from a 3rd time. This is what I need done by you to feel protected and comfortable for you to return home.


No contact with The Sea Hag forever. Write a letter to Sea Hag explaining you will not ever communicate with her again and that you want to recover our marriage. Give it to me when you are done so I may ensure it's mailed, this will build trust.


Change Cell phone number, share passwords to email accounts, access to your lap top and basic transparency, remove all her and/or her friends phone #'s from your cell phones and cut all ties, no holding on you have this access to me too. Tell me if contact is made.


Living at home full time no sleeping anywhere else unless me and/or the children go no matter how far away you work. Remove your name from apartment lease and showing proof of it.


Use joint family bank account so that money cannot be hidden again a 3rd time. All payroll deposits will be made into joint bank account. No finances in any form will be given to the Sea Hag. I would like to do the bills together.


Do necessary things to establish trust. Trust is not blindly given, it is established for the protection of the kids and I. This means thoughtful things such as phone calls and accessibility to you at any time. Calling when late etc.


Read book Surviving An Affair by Dr. Willard Harley this is our road map to recovery.

I love you unconditionally, but if we are to make full recovery for our M, there has to be conditions so that I can keep my love for you intact and learn to trust again.


The Sea Hag must be erased from our lives. The kids and I both need you to protect us and keep us safe. You have a path to come home, this is my path for me to feel protected and comfortable for you to return home.

No contact with The Sea Hag forever. Write a letter to Sea Hag explaining you will not ever communicate with her again and that you want to recover our marriage. We will mail it out together, so it ensures me and will build trust in my love for you again.

Change Cell phone number, share passwords to all email accounts, access to your lap top and basic transparency, remove all her and/or her friends phone #'s from your cell phones and cut all ties, For me to recover, I need for you to do this. Without this our M will not be based on trust.

Sleep at home every night unless you are with me or our kids. Show proof of lease being ended.

We both use joint family bank account so that money cannot be hidden again a 3rd time. All finances will go through this account. We will share billpaying together.

Do anything necessary things to establish trust. Trust is no longer blindly given, it is established for the protection of the kids and I.

Planning a weekend at a MB seminar or if that is not possible, doing phone counseling.

random thoughts and suggestions...we are your loudest cheerleaders.

I'm pretty sure you just killed two birds with one stone.

Does WH love you unconditionally?

I don't think the requirements list is the place for you to express this sentiment. You're saying "unconditionally" while laying down conditions.

Not the right time to say that.

This all sounds too familiar....very similar to the vomit tst spewed when he decided to come home the first time.

Now I am not saying that I don't think this is good. I think it is very good.

What I am saying is this is not the time to fudge one iota on what you NEED from him to allow him access into your life again.

I believe that he is hurting and wants to come home. BUT right now he is hurting for himself. That equals worldly sorrow. Wait for him to HURT FOR YOU. Then you will see Godly sorrow.

Except nothing less than Godly sorrow.

If you are patient and stand firm, I think you are headed to recovery. If you are not patient, I think you may well find yourself in a false recovery.

Hang tight. It's coming.

Are you going to require an MB weekend or MB counseling? I would suggest something like this on the requirements list: marriage counseling/retreat with the counselor I choose.

Two things:

1. Your letter- if you are going to say "I love you unconditionally", I would add, "But, there are conditions to having you in my life" and then make your list.

2. His little speech was nauseating to me, and I say that as a FWW. When I begged my BH for a second chance, there was no attitude of entitlement or like I was doing him a favor.

Personally,
I would not give him the letter right now. Let him make some changes first. If you give him a list of conditions, it may make him think that Sea Hag is an easier deal.

Just stay dark.

JMO

BTW, I am having a bit of a down on my coaster ride (woke up sobbing from a nightmare of yet another FR and the feelings are hard to shake). So I came on MB this morning and prayed that God would show me a miracle here because I was feeling so discouraged in all the affairland garbage.

I read for awhile and then left here even more discouraged.

tst texted me later in the day to tell me to pray for T2L because WS says he wants to come home. I started crying and told tst (who knows my mind is in a dark place today) that I asked God for a miracle on MB today.

Maybe this is it

Very nicely put SMB!

Thank you, Jean. I only know because I witenssed both.

T2L,
I defer to your IMs but I think you're putting way too much into the list of requirements, plus you're doing too much of the heavy lifting. He needs to prove his commitment. Like Jayne says, he still reeks of entitlement.

My .02 on the conditions, and my feelings will not be hurt one whit if you toss my ideas into the trash bin.

Mr. T2L,

I love you unconditionally, I hope that you can see that in me.

The Sea Hag must be erased from our lives so that you would have to live a double life and make huge lies to make it possible. The kids and I need you to protect us from a 3rd time. This is what I need done by you to feel protected and comfortable for you to return home. Share with me your plan for erasing her from our lives.


No contact with The Sea Hag forever. Write a letter to Sea Hag explaining you will not ever communicate with her again and that you want to recover our marriage. Give it to me when you are done so I may ensure it's mailed, this will build trust.


Change Cell phone number, share passwords to email accounts, access to your lap top and basic transparency, remove all her and/or her friends phone #'s from your cell phones and cut all ties, no holding on you have this access to me too. Tell me if contact is made.Explain to me what precautions you will take so that Sea Hag, or any other woman, will never intrude into our marriage again. I need complete and total Openness and Honesty from you, so please make that part of your plan.


Living at home full time no sleeping anywhere else unless me and/or the children go no matter how far away you work. Remove your name from apartment lease and showing proof of it.


Use joint family bank account so that money cannot be hidden again a 3rd time. All payroll deposits will be made into joint bank account. No finances in any form will be given to the Sea Hag. I would like to do the bills together.


Do necessary things to establish trust. Trust is not blindly given, it is established for the protection of the kids and I must be earned. This means thoughtful things such as phone calls and accessibility to you at any time. Explain to me your plan to earn back my trust.


Read book Surviving An Affair by Dr. Willard Harley this is our road map to recovery. (I might replace this with MB weekend and all followup assignments but do whatever you're comfortable with -- just be sure you set the bar HIGH).

I love Jean's post. I agree with her.

Oh T2L, I've been out of touch all day and just caught up on your thread! Praise God, I see a tiny leak in the dam and I'm praying HARD that it virtually explodes into a giant flood... that it happens quickly.

My DH was also very foggy when he came home. He came home, not because he necessarily wanted to, but out of desperation. It was doubly hard on our recovery because I didn't have a clue about recovery. You've been given some powerful tools through MB. Your greatest and most powerful tool though is getting down on your knees now (and I know you're there).

I pray AGAINST any words spoken by SeaHag and that all WH will hear is blah, blah, blah... that the scales fall from WH's eyes and he sees and recognizes the demonic evil that lies within SeaHag... that he RUNS from her as fast as he can, as his vision clears.

I'll be praying in my sleep tonight dear one.

My WH also had a "plan" each time he came home.

The last great plan -- sneek his stuff out of OW's house while she and her kids were attending a wedding rehersal so there'd be no confrontation (like the usual suicide threat). See, OW's sis was getting married that weekend and OW was the maid (ho) of honor. Perfect time for him to disrupt her family event, miss the wedding, and hope everyone from OW's family would hate him.

And with every false recovery, I felt like I was "negotiating" a hostage release. My rule should have been -- NEVER NEGOTIATE WITH A TERRORIST. NEVER NEGOTIATE WITH A WAYWARD. And I tried different tactics each time...believe me!

And as for a scheduled break up -- I heard that one before, too. Beware of the words "OW just wants me to be happy. And if it's back with my family, then that's fine with her. She'll stay away." Bull poop. It made me look like I just wanted him back out of obligations, but OW really CARED about his happiness and that she loved him enough to let him go. NOT FAIR.

Just beware that your WH will be different. Some of the OW's ickiness will have rubbed off on him. His words, his tastes, even the food he eats -- lots of changes. Be prepared.

GOOD LUCK AND GODSPEED. I WILL PRAY A ROSARY FOR YOU!!!!!

I was just playing the fool

Sorry

lol I hadn't even realized I was spewing cliches!

Um........ Doesn't Dr. Harley say there is NO such thing as unconditional love? At least for us mere mortals?

There ARE conditions on your love. You may still care for him as a person, MAYBE, if he continues to live with Sea Hag, but you won't continue to love him as a wife, will you, after he's lived with her 50 years? What if he totally abandoned your kids? I can think of all sorts of unmentionable things that he could become... would you still love him? I mean other than the, scuse my ignorance... filio? Agape? The love with which we are to love every human being? Would you still romantic-love him?

In fact that's one thing Steve Harley told me. Love, spousal love at LEAST, IS conditional. Coulda sworn I read it in one of the books too.

So, yeah, kill the unconditional love.

cliche ... hmmmmm.... don't count your chickens before they hatch?

HE. IS. NOT. READY. YET. When he is, he will respect the conditions you have already imposed, including using the intermediaries. I have spent more than 2/3 of my time here on earth learning how to deal with uncooperative men, and I'd bet my life on this one. He wants to come back, while doing as little as possible to make it happen. "Worldly repentance," as SMB said.

If it walks like a duck...

tl

Well y'all, I think these are my conditions. Tried to keep it short as H really is a get to the point kinda guy, always been that way. Do y'all think there should be more explaining on the why I need these conditions emotionally or leave just as it.

I am nervous having Read SAA a conditions because then he will know everything. Once I give them to him I may change user names because he has this thing about privacy, but even pre-A he was that way and it would be a LB if he knew. I don't have a problem him knowing the last half but up to this point I am uncomfortable with it.

I guess I probably seem nuts because I'm not jumping for joy. I feel he will most assuredly be very angry about the conditions. I know that I must value myself by the conditions, just scary that its the death blow. I'm sure he will say I am controlling him once again....As crazy as it sounds, I am wondering his motivation for coming home. He says its for the kids, but I wonder if its for financial reasons and visitation reasons and maybe his plan isn't no contact although he said no contact is the goal, ya know just so things are easier for him. That's what my gut says but now that I'm a BS I could possibly think that about him forever KWIM... IDK...Anyways thanks for starting the thread Pep it did help to hear from others experiences. So close but really so far

See below.....




The Sea Hag must be erased from our lives completely and forever. The kids and I both need you to protect us and keep us safe from further hurt. Share with me your plan for erasing her from our family's lives and protecting us.

To recover there must be No contact with The Sea Hag forever. Write a letter to Sea Hag explaining you will not ever communicate with her again and that you want to recover our marriage. Give it to me when you are done so I can be sure it's mailed, this will build trust.

Change Cell phone number, share passwords to all email accounts, access to your lap top and basic transparency and being an open book. Explain to me what precautions you will take so that Sea Hag, or any other woman, will never come into our marriage again. I need complete and total Openness and Honesty from you to be able to heal and trust again.

Living at home full time no sleeping anywhere else unless me and/or the children go no matter how far away you work. Remove your name from apartment lease and showing proof of it.

Use joint family bank account. All payroll deposits will be made into joint bank account. No finances in any form will be given to the Sea Hag. I would like to do the bills together.

Do anything necessary things to establish trust. Trust is no longer blindly given, it is earned. This means thoughtful things such as phone calls and accessibility to you at any time. Explain to me your plan to earn back my and our children's trust.


Read book Surviving An Affair by Dr. Willard Harley this is our road map to recovery.

TL,
Yeah I think he may not be ready either... Why even try to come home ya know. Its like this man is "planning" to come home but its all about protecting her it seems like.

I feel like he may be coming home for convenience. IDK. It doesn't feel like he wants to come home to me. Isn't that a silly thing to say when my H just told me he is planning to come home?

Schoolbus, when I spoke to him a few weeks back he would say things like, people will think i am just tucking my tail and running home. Huh??? He's made several reference similar to this like its not a manly thing or its a weak thing. I sometimes think he just wants to prove he's the man and nothing more.

Well either way, I feel good now about setting conditions and giving them to him where I was really confused on what or how much just this morning. I am worth it. I know this. Funny how your retarded little mind will dictate to you by your emotions and fears what you should accept and devalue your self. I am feeling firmer about them. I definitely wish things would have went differently with him saying hes coming home. I hate to always be the one standing up, sometimes you doubt your self and start to think you are a control freak, but I know my worth. I wavered a bit but down inside I knew it wasn't right to go along with what he offered. It made me feel sick and uneasy inside.

Anyways, I'm pooped, 3 tests and studying today with DS10....

{{{Hugs}}}}

It's still all about him, T2L.

He wants to come home because he wants a clean home, cooked meals, the attractive house, wifey, and 2.5 children in the 'burbs. His tastebuds have tired of Turkey Ramen.

If you're not comfortable with mentioning SAA, just put "Particpate in a counseling program of my choosing until I have regained confidence in our marriage."

You might put a line at the end, like a closing, saying "I realize I cannot control you, and you will choose to live your life as you think best. These are conditions I need, just for me, before I am ready to consider reconciliation. You do whatever you need to do."

I'm *glad* you're not jumping for joy. He's nowhere close to ready. He wants it all to be over and done with, and the hard work has not yet even begun. YOU, however, are doing FABULOUSLY.