When do the waywards start looking at themselves in the mirror and start to want to try to fix the M usually? After withdrawal or during it or is there usually an epiphany moment?

Not really knowing what to do. I am tired of being in limbo and worried about if I wait to long to protect my children. WW could always decide to come back after D, right? Just worried about wasting too much time waiting on her and risking my kids well being.

A down day I guess.

I've heard of plenty of people who remarry, even 2 or 3 times. So anything is possible.

Best advice? I guess, always follow your heart and your morals. That way, your kids will, too.

Hard to follow them when they are leading me in 2 different directions.


Maybe it's time for Plan B since I'm feeling indifferent to if she comes back right now.

It would just suck to wait 2 years for somebody that never comes home.


How do you go about finding an impartial IM?

I have a question.

When someone has an A and then all of the problems with the M, are they just using those problems as a justification? Will the problems keep a wayward from returing home when all is said and done?

MIL keeps talking to me about fixing the stuff that was wrong with the M before the A. The LB and all. I have tried to tell her that if WW just left then that would be the advice to take but that an A changes the dynamics of it.

Does it? I thought that was what I had read. What goes on inside the mind of a WW when the A is over and they get to the point that they either will or will not return to the M.

Hey there Rusty.

You may not remember me but you posted to me in my thread (now dead) about maybe my H would want to work on our M or not, it's his decision. I still haven't gotten the guts up to tell him about it. That said, I think I have one point of view to offer to you...

For me (which I know, is different because my H still doesn't know) I feel like I was rejected in my M. He told me sex was boring. He told me, "I don't tell you that you look good because I don't want you to expect it." Things like that made me feel worthless, that I had nothing to offer him other than doing the wash, paying the bills, cleaning the house (rarely to his standards), etc. So for me, right now - I can't tell him because I am scared out of my mind that this will be one more thing for him to reject me on. And, truth be told, I don't know that we ever had the kind of M that I envisioned when I was a little girl. And I don't know if he has it in him to help me make the changes I need to make and to allow me to help him make the changes he would need to make.

Does that make sense? I hope so.

Hi, Rusty. I've followed your thread here from day one and don't believe I've ever posted to you. I'm sorry for what you're going through.

I am a FWW. My situation is different then yours so I don't know if I can answer your questions as they relate to what's happening. I was dumped by FOM and confessed to my H 4 months later so I didn't live in the A or experience withdrawal while my H was aware.

The problems could indeed keep a WW from returning if he/she is not remorseful, in my opinion. We hang onto this mantra of "if my spouse didn't..." or "if my spouse would have..." to justify our betrayal. Until she points her finger only at herself and is sorry for the A, I don't know that you'll ever get to work on the M.

I have an IC who explained to me there are three components now working in my M because of my infidelity. There is me trying to understand and process my A. (Why did I do this?) There is my H trying to process my A. (Why did she do that?) And there is the processing of if we can stay married and what that would entail. (What do we need to do to be happy together?) The thing is, you can't even begin to work on the M part until the processing of the A is done.

I met with Dr. Harley and he said to look at it as the affair is a huge, gaping leg wound. You need to clean it, medicate it, dig it out, bandage and rebandage it... You need to heal the wound completely before you can run again. And there will always be a scar. If you don't let the wound heal before you try to run, you can get an infection and perhaps do even more harm. So I have to heal my BH's wound caused by my cheating first before we can focus on our M and run that race. I need to process the reality of what has happened so I can properly administer aid to help my H, but I do not have to be completely healed myself before I can help him.

If you have the chance, read Mark1952's thread called "Musings From Mark" (on the last page) where he celebrates his 3,500th post by telling the story of how he and his wife recovered from her A and how it was similar to his recovery from a horrible skin problem. It's a very good analogy of this.

I do not mean to dishearten you as I can read how hurt you are. What I want you to see is that you wanting to deal with the A is not selfish and it is not avoidance of any marital problems. It is in fact critical for you and your WW to deal with the fall-out from that nuclear blast before you can look at your past relationship and begin building again.

As for your MIL who keeps talking to you about fixing the stuff that was wrong with the M before the A... The A is now a part of the M. It's a a glaring florescent flashing orange light part of the relationship. It and everything that goes with it needs to be recovered before the rest of the M can be looked at because it is otherwise blinding you. A true M, in my opinion, needs trust and right now there isn't any. If she can't trust you with the truth and if you can't trust her to commit to only you, what's there to discuss?

Good luck and stay the course -- whether it be Plan A or Plan B. (I'm not an expert in either so I'll let the vets answer that part of your question.)

Take care.

Thanks for all that. Helped me a little.

WW has now moved into her own place and ended the A a couple weeks ago, although she still works at the same place. She still completely blames me for everything and talks about how she would like a D if she could afford one. She has seen all of my changes and told me the famous "too little too late".

Every time she talks about the D she then talks about that we could get back together afterwards. I dont know if she even knows wtf she wants. She only knows she wants a D but she doesnt even know why. Does this make any sense?

When I have asked her why she wants a D soon and not wait and see what happens she doesnt know except that she "wants to get on with her life".

I just would like to know what to expect if anybody has a clue.

Hi Rusty,

I'm still reading your thread. My thread has been pretty dead lately. It seems like we're in almost the same situations. Both of our WW's have moved out but divorces aren't finalized.

I have a lot of the same questions that you do. I read a book called "Hope for the Separated" by Gary Chapman. It had some interesting ideas of what to do when you are separated. It's a very Christian book and he pretty much says never to give up on your spouse for almost any reason...

He suggests to make a list of some of the ways that you failed your spouse in your marriage and ask her for forgiveness and ask her if she is willing to give your marriage another try while you work on the stuff on the list. It sounds a lot like a plan A. I asked my marriage counselor if he thought it was a good idea and he said he thought it was a great idea. He said to tell her that I'm giving her the list to learn from her what went wrong in the marriage and ask her if she'd add anything, etc, but tell her you're doing it so you can be a better man and a better father. He said not to tell her that I'm doing the list thing to try to save the relationship, but he thinks if she sees honest efforts, it may encourage her to come back...

Don't know if it will work, but it's worth a try. And I really am sorry for the things I did wrong in our marriage and want to apologize to her for them and then move forward by working on those things that I did wrong and truly be a better person, not just for her, but for myself and my child.

Whatever the outcome, I have dedicated myself to studying everything I can from the Harleys and try not to make the same mistakes again. I went through just about the whole marriagebuilders.com website and printed every article I could find and put them in a binder. I've been studying everything and becoming a marriage expert... It's given me something positive to do and it feels good instead of wallowing in self-pity..

I hope you found something in this that might help you. Good luck to both of us!!!

Maybe I should just call the Harleys and see what they think. I get some money in Friday. What kind of lead time do they have on this when you schedule?

Good idea. I'm sure the Harleys won't stear you wrong. I am fortunate to have a really good marriage counselor who is quite a bit cheaper than the Harleys but I think the Harleys are the ultimate source for direction as far as counseling.

There is an article in the articles section of this website about how to choose a good marriage counselor. I dumped my first counselor because he was too young and inexperienced. He didn't know what to do at all... My current one is very experienced and specializes in addiction and marriage counseling, which is similar to what Willard Harley's background is:addiction. And since adultery is like an addiction, it's a good background for a counselor to have...

I do hope things work out for you erichh. Being in the dark is the worst part.

As for your first post...I have talked to WW about my shortcomings in the M and asked her to forgive me for them and she said she can't right now. I am still working on them for myself right now. She is just acting so weird.

Right after she left she didnt know if she wanted me or not and then decided she wanted OM. She has slowly worked her way farther and farther from me. I just dont know what to do. I cannot wait forever but I will wait as long as I can. As soon as I notice she is letting me meet and EN I will know I am on the right track and will post about that for sure. lol

Rusty,

If I were you right now, I would kind of ignore her and let her think that YOU have moved on. Let her start pursuing you. She KNOWS that she has the option of falling back on you, so that is why she cake-eats. She wants her freedom, but she doesn't want to have to make a commitment. Well, if she thinks that you might move on without her, she might make the commitment again.

I'm not telling you to go to plan B, or completely blow her off, but I would just keep yourself busy. Let her call you, and don't always answer it. If she asks what you are doing, let her know you are going out with your friend and having a good time. Now if she talks to you, you should engage her back. If she wants to come over and you aren't busy, let her come over, but make her do the pursuing.

Rusty, follow Jim's advice. It is exactly what you need to do.

Emotionally detach, work on being a better "you", find things to do to keep busy and your mind off the chaos (paint rooms in the house, clean and organize, work out) and let her believe you really don't NEED her.

Appearing needy to an WW is a death knell. They are looking for strength and confidence. It is HARD to do. But if you do, you will continue to improve your own self image, which she will ultimately recognize.

Don't be her "beck and call boy". Don't bail her out of situations that are consequences of her behavior. Allow her to be her own caretaker, but be vigilant for moments where she might be ready to communicate valuable information to you.

Don't fret and stew about what she might do. You have no control over that. You are only in charge of your own behavior.

Give it a try...

Thanks guys. Thats pretty much what JL said and I have been doing that. I have to fine tune it a little.

Her dad is coming to town in 2 weeks, I have asked him to go to lunch with me one day. Give me a chance to actually find out what the crap is going on with him.

Evening Rusty - how are things going?

Just waiting on WW to decide to do the right thing right now. Plan Aing every chance I get but not contacting her at all. Only letting her contact me.

Got a few minutes so I guess I will write something. WW told me Monday when I seen her that she just wanted to let me know that she no longer had any feelings for OM. She still works there and sees him so I knew she was being either dishonest with me or herself. She said she thought I would just like to know.

Well, tonight she texts me and complains about having to work with him this weekend because he acts weird around her and she still has feelings for him. Guess she forgot about what she said Monday. This is gonna be a long ride until she finally quits that job or he does one...maybe they will get fired when the place has replacements. I hear that she is almost constantly involved in some kind of friction.

After that, WW went into a tangent because I have some text messages from her saved on my phone. Usually just stuff she said that I find important or very interesting. She started calling me borderline obsessive and to erase them and that other people think so too blah, blah, blah

Here is the text she sent me when I told her no.

well i will never forgive u 4 that and ur just pissing me off and pushing me farther and farther away from u. i am not just saying that i mean it! i am not going to not divorce u cause of those texts if that is what u r saying!

Just ignore it and keep Plan Aing. She's still wayward.

Forward those texts to your email account and save them in a file. Delete the sends off your phone when you send those. Then when you see her ask her why she is so worried about those texts, then after her babble about them just say...Here if they bother you so much just delete them yourself.

Just a thought.