As this is my first time posting, I feel like it may help if I give you some background before I ask my question. H and I have been married for 5 years. During our marriage H has engaged in several emotional affairs with women he has met online. I do take partial responsibility for these as I know that I have not been successful in meeting his ENs for some time, although I have been trying. After I discovered the last one I asked him to leave as it was with someone that we both know. We have now been seperated for 4 months. During this time he has come clean with me about all of his indiscretions, including ones I did not know about. It does not seem that he has had any physical involvement, not that that makes it hurt any less.

About a year ago I discovered MB and have tried many times to implement it into our R. When I first found it I discussed the principles with H and he seemed open to them. He even did the EN and RC questionnaires with me and we had a gameplan to continue and try to get our relationship on track but old habits die hard. This has happened several times.

You guys have been an inspiration and have given me so much hope that with love and hard work you can overcome almost any situation. I have decided to give this one last shot which brings me to needing your advice. The two ENs I am probably the worst at meeting are admiration and appreciation (I know thats not a MB EN but he lists it as one of his), which I feel has helped encourage his infidelity. So my question is, other than frequent compliments and sincere thank you's what can I do to satisfy these ENs?

I honestly try but I have no idea what else to do. Sometimes I feel like nothing I do will ever be enough, like part of his requirement for these needs to be satisfied is to get them from several different women. I have not read HNHN yet but I have ordered it and am hoping it will give me some insight.

Please help me! I will appreciate any advice, whether it pertains to my question or just my situation in general.

geminibutterfly; welcome to MB...

Have you and your dh gone to MC? Maybe talking and clarifying with a counselor would make this clearer in your mind. It almost sounds to me like he is not accepting responsibility for his EAs and blaming it on you. It will take love and hard work on his part to help meet your ENs; this is a 2-way street.

***SF is usually the MAIN EN for our male counterparts. WE usually have the admiration and affection ENs more than they do; generally that is. Don't overlook his SF need. I think that he is trying to justify his behavior on the internet and blame it on you...It can become an addiction that MUST stop in order to focus on real relationships. ***I would tell him that you "need his undivided attention in order to try to meet his EN and that you will not compete with his "fantasy admirers", they do not really know him and the admiration is just fluff and flattery; not true admiration like you have for him! " I would say that you need to break his fantasy world and show him that real life is better!

Have you tried to make a vow to each other? like he will give up the internet chats with everyone for XYZ amount of time to spend time with you to rebuild your marriage and that you will try to meet one of his ENs in XYZ amount of time the most creative ways that you can. You need his commitment to this!!!

I believe that romantic love can be regained and that intimacy can be restored. I am seeing it in my marriage (10 years; one child together; age 7) and am very encouraged that we will FINALLY learn what we both need in marriage and provide the secure and loving environment that helps us be the best spouses to each other that we can be.

Thank you dearheart. I've been checking back frequently hoping someone would respond.

SF is usually the MAIN EN for our male counterparts.

SF is 2nd on his list behind RC, but I feel that is only bc of severe conflict we've had over his change in interests. Admiration and affection tied for 4th.

Have you tried to make a vow to each other?

Right before our seperation, I had caught him having inappropiate conversations with a woman online. It was just flirting but made me uncomfortable because of our history and where I knew it would probably go. He said he would agree to anything to try and work it out. I asked him to limit his time on the computer and stop text messaging on his phone bc I felt he used it way too much for it to be innocent. He agreed and then within a week he was communicating about our relationship with a woman (the one that we both know) via e-mail. That has been our main problem- he puts effort into this but not his heart. I know he loves me, but I feel he has given up without really trying.

I think that he is trying to justify his behavior on the internet and blame it on you...

He does not blame me for the EAs, I'm just trying to determine if there is anything left for me to try before calling it quits. I don't know if working harder on his ENs and eliminating LBs will work but its all I can think of.

It will take love and hard work on his part to help meet your ENs

Overall he has done a good job of meeting my ENs, except for H&O of course. He is pretty bad with the LBs though, especially IB and AH. Back to SF, that is a contributing factor for us as well. I think he is satisfied with the frequency and quality, but he is much more freaky (for lack of a better term) than I am. For example, when he's working on the road he wants me to send him racy pictures of myself. Thats out of my comfort zone, but of course there are always other women out there who are happy to.

At this point I just don't know if I'll ever be enough. I want to do what I can to make him happy but I don't feel like I should have to cross boundaries that were established before we got married in order to do that.

Thank you for your help and please continue if you can think of anything else...

You could...
praise him for work he does around the house
brag about him to your parents for something, like the great job he has that supports you guys
brag about him to people you both hang out with
if you have kids, tell them (even if they're young) in front of him how much their daddy loves them or something he does that's great
buy him an emotional card once in awhile and slip it into his lunch box or briefcase or just put it on the seat in his car; you know, those ones that have the 'I can't believe I found you' types of statements
buy him his favorite kind of candy and just say I felt like you deserved a treat
ask him to do something because he's 'much better at it than I am'
ask his advice - guys love this!
prepare a special evening for him just because
get this book and use it - satisfy this EN and SF at the same time
book a special overnight trip so you can spend time together; my H especially likes the bed & breakfast type places

Thank you for all the suggestions catperson. Its funny some of those are things I used to do but stopped without realizing it. And some of them are ideas I gave him to do for me but never thought to do them for him!

I love the idea of the book, I think he would really enjoy something like that.

I'm also working on planning something special for our anniversary.
( http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubb...in=156305&Number=2220808#Post2220808 if anyone's interested).

I was thinking maybe I could come to a compromise on some of the things I'm not comfortable with. Like my example above about him wanting me to send pictures... My problem with it is the possibility of it getting into the wrong hands. I was thinking I could try something wearing lingerie. Maybe that would work for him but I wouldn't be exposed. I don't know, just thinking out loud...

gemini, about the pictures...you could always do it without showing your face. My h and I both have camera phones, and we've been known to send each other shots of, erm, well, ya know.

Known by who? I think that's her point, that she wants to keep that part of their life private. Not everyone gets here with full trust in their spouse that they would keep these things confidential.

Have you read the book "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend?

Has your husband been like this before your marriage? If you don't know, I think it would be worth asking him, if you feel you can get an honest answer about it.

What reasons has he offered for not being able to stop? Not being able to control his own behavior?

Has your husband always been a flirty person? If so, what changed with your tolerance of that?

Did you two discuss your differing levels of SF comfort before you got married? If so, what agreements were made then?

Perhaps it may be enough or a start to just send headshots. There is certainly nothing to worry about as far as others seeing it. It's not racy, but I think most guys are attracted to a confident smile.

And the idea that he "needs" admiration from other women is just nonesense. It sounds partially like an excuse for his behavior. Cat is right though about bragging on him in public. As well it may be a good idea to encourage him to get active in his church or some other activity where he make a lot of male friends. For me anyone, part of feeling a lack of appreciation happens when I'm doing much worth appreciating, or atleast not for the people I want appreciation from.

Hi inrecoverynow. I'll try to answer all your questions the best I can.

Have you read the book "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend?

No, the only relationship book I have ever read is "Mars/Venus", and honestly I didn't care for it much...

Has your husband been like this before your marriage? If you don't know, I think it would be worth asking him, if you feel you can get an honest answer about it.

I'm not sure what you mean by this question. If you mean unfaithful, we have discussed it and besides our relationship he only admits to seeing or talking to several women at the same time when he was a teenager.

What reasons has he offered for not being able to stop? Not being able to control his own behavior?

He has told me it always starts out innocently, then he feels an urge to push it to see how far he can take it. Thats really the only explanation I've ever been able to get out of him.

Has your husband always been a flirty person? If so, what changed with your tolerance of that?

Yes definitely. He has also always been the kind of person women feel compelled to firt with, and I never really minded if he reciprocated as long as it was playful, non-sexual and both parties understood it would go nowhere. To be honest, it actually kind of made me proud that all these other women saw him this way and that he was with me. I guess something that has changed the dynamic of this (other than the obvious) is our lack of social activity. Before marriage we would always go out dancing and to pool halls, stuff like that where the opportunity was there for a quick flirt. Now with kids and our hectic lives, there's not much time for that and he turns to the internet for that attention, where there is a lot more opportunity for continuous contact and a relationship to develop.

Did you two discuss your differing levels of SF comfort before you got married? If so, what agreements were made then?
We didn't have differing comfort levels before we got married. We were younger, naive, "completely compatible", "made for each other", "meant to be", blah blah blah...
Things were great until I had our children. I lost my libido and struggled for about 2 years to get it back. But oddly enough, all of this trouble has been happening since I got my drive back. He has since confessed to me that he camoflauged his feelings on some things (this being one of them) before we got married with the thought I wouldn't accept them. In other words, he pulled a bait and switch on me.

How old were you two when you got married?

I asked about his habits of talking to other women before you were married, because I wondered if this indeed was part of his personality, part of him. If he has always behaved this way, then I suspect he'd behave this way with any woman, not just you. (Meaning, your not meeting his needs may not but the full reason he's behaving like this.)

I'd be concerned about the urges to take things further. He doesn't have to act on them..

I know marriage builders is all about controlling your half of the relationship. I think it's great that you want to control what you can,to be the best wife that you can. But I'm wondering if part of this is about things you can't control, like your husband's personality. In that case, boundaries come in to play here..not to punish your husband, but to make you feel safe in your marriage.

You might want to go over to the In Recovery Forum. I think the poster's Name is Still Crazy, and I think her thread is "What if the BS can never get over it" She's much older and knowingly married a husband who flirts.

My husband also did a bit of a bait and switch on me. But there were serious underlying issues for that, that my husband had to fix (meaning they were not related to me or the marriage). I'm not for one bit suggesting that your husband has underlying issues. In our case the bait and switch was related to his behaviors.

I just wanted to emphasize something here regarding your above comment. Affirmation (verbalizing admiration and appreciation) is one of the 5 Love Languages ... according to Gary Chapman's book.

That book is one I've read, one I highly recommend and one that is highly recommended on this site by others. It sort of affirms some of the principles taught in HNHN. It's a quick read if you're interested.

Here's a little excerpt from the author's website:

Words of Affirmation
Mark Twain once said “I can live for two months on a good compliment.” Verbal appreciation speaks powerfully to persons whose primary Love Language is “Words of Affirmation.” Simple statements, such as, “You look great in that suit,” or “You must be the best baker in the world! I love your oatmeal cookies,” are sometimes all a person needs to hear to feel loved.

Aside from verbal compliments, another way to communicate through “Words of Affirmation” is to offer encouragement. Here are some examples: reinforcing a difficult decision; calling attention to progress made on a current project; acknowledging a person’s unique perspective on an important topic. If a loved one listens for “Words of Affirmation,” offering encouragement will help him or her to overcome insecurities and develop greater confidence.

To learn more about this Love Language, take a good look at Gary Chapman’s best-selling book, The Five Love Languages.

The 5 Love Languages

Quality Time
Receiving Gifts
Acts of Service
Physical Touch

We were 23 when we got married and had only been together for a year and a half.

Part of me feels like this is on him. I can't say that I've tried my hardest, but I feel like I truly have tried really hard the past two years or so. I just can't see any justification for this to keep happening if he is as dedicated to fixing this as he says he is.

I'm finally accepting that I cannot change him. The only thing I can try to do is change his feelings about me and about us through my actions and hopefully that will turn things around. I want to do these things because my ultimate goal is not only to save my marriage, but to be the best partner I can be.

I do think its working already. The other day I asked him what happened that day at work. He said what do you mean and I said tell me about your day. He sounded so happy and said, "You really want to know?" I couldn't believe one small question could change his attitude so fast but it did.

Thank you all for your understanding. Part of the reason it took me so long to post was I was afraid of the reaction I would get. It is so nice to feel support to try to work through this.

Oh and thank you for the book recommendation mr. alias. That definitely sounds like it would be a good one for me.

I'm sorry dkd, I just saw your post.

I have sent headshots before, and while he enjoyed them they weren't exactly what he was looking for.

And I feel the need to clarify. H has never blamed his behavior on my lack of satisfying any of his ENs, except perhaps SF. I personally feel that I have not given him enough admiration and that is my biggest failure at this point. That is my reason for focusing much of my attention on these right now.

I also agree that if him needing admiration from other women is the case, then that is a problem with him, not with me as a wife.

Thank you for your input.

no need to apologize, GB. It sounds like you're on the right track with things.

Well I've already blown it for today...

Part of my H's need for DS is to come home to a peaceful and unstressful house after work. While I completely understand and I'm sure I would feel the same way if I worked all day, that can be a little hard with 5yo twins and me being home with them all day.

Although he is working in another state right now and our communication is only through the phone, I'm sure this need still applies. And it just didn't happen tonight. Between me being sick and my kids misbehaving all day (especially when he called) it certainly was not the soothing conversation he was looking for! I didn't take it out on him, but I'm still sure an apology is in order...

If you guys wouldn't mind, I think I will post updates at least daily on how things are going and maybe you can help me see if I'm committing LBs that I don't realize or slacking on ENs. I think I coud really use that objective point of view...

Our second conversation this evening went really well. I apologized for the way the conversation went earlier, and he said that while he prefers things to be going smoothly when he gets off work he understands thats not always possible with two small kids, and that noone can have a good day everyday.

But our conversation brought up another question. My husband claims to love his job but complains about it constantly. My reaction to this is the "look at the bright side" philosophy. For example, he got upset today because he felt the work he had done was only going to set them back in the long run. My response was to say even if you have to do again at least that keeps you working longer (he gets laid off often). I wasn't condescending about it at all and he seemed receptive to what I said. I also know and told him that he is the kind of person who doesn't feel satisfied at work if he's not making progress and in this situation he wasn't and he agreed that that was why he was upset.

So I'm wondering in this situation if I should just keep my mouth shut and let him vent, or keep doing what I'm doing. I do it because I'm trying to acknowledge that his complaints are legitimate and also motivate him to see the positive in the situation, but I'm afraid it will come off as me trivializing his feelings. Any thoughts?

Yeah, you don't want to give him advice on his job. I'm really guilty of that, and it takes his pride away. He truly just wants to be heard.

You know how women dont want men FIXING stuff when they are talking?

Same thing applies about a man and work, for the most part. Hardest thing in the world for me to do... just to listen when it seems as though there is a possible fix right there on the tip of my tongue.

I would just listen to him, and maybe just reflect it back as he says it, don't put your 'flair' in it. Just reflect his words back. That will probably help him to deal with whatever he is upset about in the first place, without him putting a "You just don't understand" twist on it. Win... win... you get the 'credit' for being there for him, and he gets a sense that you are helping AND perhaps decompress his work situation as well.