Ahhhh Man! Okay I am hoping what he said to me about 6 months ago is still in his head. He told me PRe-SAA, that he stays away to keep the peace but he could move back in. I did tell him tho during PA that I contacted an attorney and that they said once he's gone for 5 months he can't come back and he has a legal address proves it. LOL maybe he will believe it.

I repeat - if he is unwilling to email his "super plans" IN WRITING to the IMs - he's going to be unwilling to make necessary changes to be a real husband to you.

I'd concur that Pep is the sensei but since I don't know how to spell it, I'll bow to the master.

NOT the mistress, that has wretched connotations on these boards.

He WILL, if he really wants to come home and you don't give him any other way in the door.

See, you are already fudging on requirements here. You are already giving him an inch.

He WILL take a mile....and your heart and your children's hearts and your memories, and anything else he can rip apart.





But this IS one of your conditions, is it not? You just keep letting him NOT meet it.





The is PRIDE. You don't want a prideful man back, do you? You want a humble man. If he is humble, he will use the IMs.

That is an ACTION that DEMONSTRATES his heart. Remember me telling you to think of what actions demonstrate the character you need to see.

He is capable of using the IMs, yet refuses. That means he is refusing your requirements and you should not even be discussing reconciliation with him until this FIRST STEP is met.





Well, using the IMs IS one of the conditions. So if he comes to the door, then he automatically is NOT saying yes to all the conditions and you can close the door and not fret about laying your heart out there to be stomped on. You will already know his motives are still not pure.





Yes, because it is one of your conditions.

And, more importantly, it is one that the wayward has defiantly REFUSED to meet.

This is HUGE to me because it DOES show his intent.

He is still screaming, "I WON'T DO IT YOUR WAY, YOU CONTROLLING B)#(*%!"

That means he won't do recovery your way either....NC letter, transparency, MB work, etc.

He is already SHOWING by his ACTIONS that HE is NOT sincere.





This sounds soooo much like foggy tst bsing me.

I want to come home but I have to do it MY way.

You need to keep that heart of yours sealed up because right now, he could do A LOT of damage.





This is very telling to me, too.

You don't want him back until his highest priority is YOU and his marriage.

He is making excuses to cake eat a bit longer.

Stop giving him the fix that he is desperate to get.

He is crashing, and when you talk with him, you give him his fix to KEEP ON GOING.

Stop it!

Let him crash!

Seal up the cracks, T2L.

Turtle, ya beat me to it.



Ms T, how I hope and pray you listen to all the excellent advice you are getting. Put on your Cape of Power (mine is red, but it comes in all shades and sizes), and firmly claim control over you and your life.

Do you really think if he wanted to come home that one requirement more or less would make him or break him? Not on your life!!!!!!!! If he really wanted to come home, he would do ANYTHING you asked of him.

It is unconditional surrender or nothing at all. Trust me, there is nothing in between that you want. It has to be one or the other.

You also keep breaking your PB over and over again. Unless one of the kids is dying, you need to stop that. It makes you appear weak. You need to be strong on every front before he will believe you mean your boundaries.

Until you are serious, he won't be.

Ask God to cast out your fear. If you let fear rule you, you will make a mistake, one that will cost you dearly. For your sake and your children's, you need to get ahold of yourself and seize full control of you and your life.

Keep him away until he is ready. He isn't ready yet.

*dawns deep purple cape* *stretches arm above her head and snaps her fingers once as she says* YES because you are so FIERCE girlfriend.

FABULOUS DARLING. YOU ARE FABULOUS!

Prayers to you T2L. Many many prayers.

Not having a death wish, I chose not to use the term "mistress" to describe the invincible Pepperband! :MrEEk: But you'd think, having grown up surrounded by Japanese, that I could've remembered "sensei" on my own. I guess I don't watch enough karate movies.

I'm back playing on the same harp again, though, and it has nothing to do with my daughter and my friends being the IMs. Agreeing to use them is an outward symbol of an inward humility, a brokenness, a relinquishing of pride. I think Tst and SMB can tell you that without that attitude, a FR is coming down the pike, as big as a freight train, just as fast, and every bit as deadly.

tl

This is all good, T2L.

I think he WILL defog.

He just hasn't yet.

Patiently stand firm.

You know in the story of the prodigal son, I don't think it mentions whether the dad made any moves to bring his son home, only that when he showed up he was welcomed with open arms.

I wonder if the dad would have welcomed him home if the son had showed up cocky, sullen, wanting to sweep everything under the rug (let the past be the past!) or demanding to call the shots on their reconcilliation.

I think the fact that he showed up totally humble and even willing to work as a servant for his father (to do whatever it took) probably spoke volumes to the dad as to his son's heart at that moment and THAT's why the dad was willing to welcome him home.

Lots of similarities, don't cha think? There's a lesson in there somewhere.

Okay y'all, sorry wanted to update last night but my internet kept bumping me off.Well he visited the kids yesterday.  When the visit was over I spoke to him.  Here's how it went.  I wish I had a secret recorder sometimes I forget things especially when I am trying to his several points.  I almost thought about writing everything out but then it probably would not have seemed genuine....I said I know you wanted to come home and I am really grateful about that especially for the kids but I think maybe since you mentioned you want to concentrate on your job that you should just go ahead and do that and we should probably pull back and you should go to your mom's first.  He said I did mention that to you and i said yes you did, but I wanted to have you back that I started to settle.  He said I don't want you to do that either, I know you have been through hell.  He said I thought you would be happy and I am sure its what you have been waiting for.  I say yes it sure is, but just going along with it made me feel sick inside and I know that truly I am a catch and I am worth it.  He says I know you are why do you say that?  I say I guess maybe to remind myself.I say what are your "plans"?  He says I am not going to tell you just know that I am working on things.  I say well what it feels like to me is since you refuse to tell me your plans you are protecting her and getting her blessing and when you decided you did not want this marriage you sure didn't plan it you walked out.  I say you are protecting her and you are not protecting me.I say what are you willing to do to heal our marriage, he says IDK.  I have so much on my plate right now with this job, I am not sure if the new job is going to pay as much and I am trying to save the house and feed you guys.  I can see how people have nervous breakdowns.  I say I wish I could be there for you but I can't.  He says with all this stress I am no good to anyone.  I think sometimes that I was never meant to be a husband and father because I am so selfish.  He says I don't want to hide who I am anymore and be super nice like I used to be.  Right now even if I came home I would be a mess and I do not want to do that you to you guys.I say I want you to change your cell phone number but you have acted like its something I need to work thru.  I say you have what 5 friends to your name or did I over shoot that?  He says yeah I have 1 and we laugh.  I say then whats the issue.  I say you have this "planned break up" that sounds like your getting her blessing. I say you think this is all just gonna go over easy.  He says no, its going to be a mess and people are going to be hurt.  I say so if she is going to be hurt you actually think she wont try to make contact?  I say she must be erased from our lives.He says you never trusted me and if I came home it would be worse-now to a degree this is true but it was when we 1st got married and in our early years, so he's pulling historical history.  I was a bit paranoid.  Were were 19 when we got married and i didn't trust but the older we got and the more we both became mature I didn't really have too many worries.  I say well I cannot just give you trust what are you willing to do to build trust?  He didn't know. He says well I told you when I get home it won't be like what it was and you said you understood and knew.  I said yes but ya know what I am glad you want to come home for the kids but I asked the kids if they wanted to have you home just for them but not really for me.  He says why would you do that.  I say to see how they felt.  I tell him your son asked me why you don't want to come home for me too.  He said no mom I don't want him home just for me.  I said your son wants a family not just his dad home for him.I ask him what are you willing to bring to the table because I know what I am. I say until you can offer me something until you are willing to bring something to the table I just think you should go to your moms.  You go do what you need to do work on your job and find out what you want and if I am still open to it we'll go from there.  We hug and I say take care of yourself.  So he says guess I am cut off again right and I say yes but not because I want it to be this way.I think that's everything.  So I did it.  Only God knows what will happen now, but I feel like I am worth it.  So for now the coming back home has been put off by me.  Necessary but feels like   How on earth did he ever become like this?   {{{{Sigh}}}}  I know he may decide that its not worth the work but at least I know my daughter knows what was said and hopefully if anything was done by that she learned to never settle even for your husband that you love so much.

Hear thunderous applause as Elvis (oops wayward spouse), leaves the building.

YOU did the right thing and the last paragraph is most telling. We are the examples our Ds learn from. You are showing that you are a strong beautiful woman - inside and out; and today go look in the mirror and say 20x "I am a Goddess". (doe that sound queenish!)

I know you are anxious, I know you are sad, but in this case quick fixes do not work. Go look at the pepperband sitch about false recoveries. It is easier to be on your own than to keep back slipping. Hang tight. breathe, one step at a time.

God has a plan for you and your family and girl it ain't on your timetable...

Why do you do this to yourself?

I thought you were in Plan B?

I agree with T&L....this is a true setup for a FR.

(shaking head and bewildered)

Ditto.



T2L, I know you get sick of hearing it, but you need your little hiney in a DARK PLAN B.

REFUSE to "hear" anything that comes from any source other than IMs. PERIOD.

Stop talking to this man.

Yes mam I am in Plan B. I guess I did it because I felt like it was heading towards FR too. I had been reading the FR thread that Pep just started and realized he can't come home and he was planning on it.

After reading some of the comments from posters on here by Jean and Peggy and others too, also realized he was no where near being able to read a conditions list either. So i felt I would rather tell him to go to his moms and work it out than to show up on my door and read conditions that he absolutely is not ready for. Plus I took the advice and asked "what are your plans". He wouldn't answer which was enough of an answer for me.

Yes I am in Plan B and will be dark again. I could have sent communication thru the IM's to stop his plan of coming home but chose to tell him to his face so he could see my genuineness. I realize that I do not need to prove my genuineness but that because he is so messed up and fogged in, he feels that my letters are games so I knew I would tell him to his face closing the door to his plan home, at least for now. He's not ready.

But its done, going dark again.

"He says I don't want to hide who I am anymore and be super nice like I used to be. Right now even if I came home I would be a mess and I do not want to do that you to you guys."


Entitled, fogged out, and not even close to the bottom yet!




DARK PLAN B!!!

SDW

T2L, my prayers are going up for you.

I don't think you fully understand what dynamics are occuring when you allowed WH to bypass the IM's again yesterday.

You BOTH made HUGE withdrawals from each others Love Banks!
I'm not sure you see that this is happening each time you allow contact to occure as it has over the past week.

I know he continues to refuse the IM's, but did you bring this up yesterday? This is the only thing you should have discussed. You could have avoided delivering the bad news yesterday and would have avoided the huge LB's going back and forth.
Please know that I'm not trying to beat you up about this......just want you to see how serious this is..... You cannot allow yourself to be the bad guy, nor can you allow your own love to dwindle away.......

((((T2L))))

I know a disappearing Plan B dark plan you could do.

Keep in mind I can get some free rooms in the bright light city. Disappear. It will do you good also for a change of scenery instead of watching all of his madness. Just let me know and we can plan something.

take care