My kids gave their father his birthday presents today, since he was on vacation on his birthday. Even though he knew that I took them to buy them, and obviously I paid for the three year old's, he didn't have the decency to open them in our house - he took them with him to open at dinner. Then he asked me if I had taken the mandatory course required in this state for divorcing parents - required before a preliminary hearing can be held. He has been diligently looking for an open class so he can speed things up. Why should I spend fifty bucks to go hear how devastating divorce is for children, and spend 5 hours away from my kids, just so I can speed up the divorce that he wants? <P>It seems like virtually the betrayer in virtually every case here (Chris' wife is the only exception I can think of) has waffled at some point - my H never has. Maybe he has never wanted to be married - maybe I was just better than nothing and now that he is older and the man/woman ratio is more favorable he can dump me - he is so content now living in luxury. He has always gotten exactly what he wanted - he wanted me to give up my job so he could move and go into business for himself and I gave up my home, my friends and my life for him, he wanted a new truck and I wanted a used one - we used up a good chunk of the equity in our house to buy it. Someone in our town lost her husband in an auto accident and is left pregnant and with three kids and I find myself envious of her - at least she will remember her H fondly, and her kids will grow up believing that their father loved them. Two people in our area killed their wives - why couldn't he have had the decency to do that. I don't want to live in a world where you can't trust anyone at all. If it weren't for the fact that I don't want to betray my kids as he has done I would be out of here. And don't tell me anything about how god has a plan - I have been an atheist all my life. And right after he moved in the sl** joined a church, while sc**ing a married man under the same roof as her kids.<P>Before discovery he told the therapist that he was suicidal at the thought of having to wake up beside me for the rest of his life - leaving out the fact that he wanted to wake up next to someone else. He even had concrete plans for how he was going to accomplish it, which would have assured that the kids, not I, would have found his body. The therapist, who knew the truth, said to him , "Oh, you must have been hurting so much," and not a word about how thinking that the man I loved hated me so much that he would rather be dead than with me might make me feel. When I recounted this to my therapist, he said that it was a terribly cruel thing for him to say. <P>Don't tell me how much betrayers are hurting too. If he is capable of feeling any emotion at all, he is obviously perfectly content with his new life - the only sticking points being that I am not willing to speed up the divorce. Don't tell me that the pain betrayers feel if and when they wake up, whether he will ever wake up is certainly in question, comes close to what the betrayed or their children feel. I doubt that most betrayers ever wake up - it seems logical that they would do everything in their power to stay asleep.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited October 19, 1999).]

Oh, Nellie. I'm so sorry for your pain. As my (Christian) counselor told me awhile back, "Your life sucks." I know you just said you are an atheist, but believe me, when a man who has been a pastor &/or Christian counselor for 9 years tells you something like that, you know things aren't so good.<P>Your H wasn't good about the presents & he's said mean, awful stuff to you. Nevertheless, don't wish you had a waffler, it isn't any better, even if you have moments of hope--they are then painfully dashed.<P>I guess I'm not cheering you up, exactly. But remember, you have stayed constant, you are there for your children, you will be okay.<P>Best wishes.

I asked my H about taking care of the kids for an afternoon and evening so they wouldn't have to ride in the car for eight hours when I go get our daughters from college for Thanksgiving, and he said he would have to think about what he could do, since he would have to miss work. He gets a lot of vacation, and since he left he has been taking a lot of time off, but he can't afford a few hours for his kids - unless that is just an excuse and he is worried that she won't like him taking care of them at our house or something. On those rare occasions when he actually looks me in the eye, his eyes are so cold and hard.<P>Lor,<BR>I am sure having your hopes dashed is terribly painful, but right now I would give anything for even a moment's hope.<P>Sometimes I wonder how much effect the fact that one of his coworkers left his wife and kids and remarried almost immediately had on his decision to have an affair. We would undoubtedly be better off still living among the Amish - they were certainly better influences with respect to fidelity. <p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited October 19, 1999).]

Oh Nellie -<P>BIG HUGS!!!! I am so sorry......<P>Although my H does come around occasionally, believe me - he does not seem to be waffling.<P>He LOVES his single stud life.....he wants this divorce and the quicker the better!!!<P>When my H throws what could be considered waffling at me...it's not really!! He's just trying to keep a leash on me to fulfill his own prophecy of growing old with me in anywheres up to 30 years from now!! I swear - he said that and he means it, too!! He expects that I will be around for him then!! That's why I came up with Whack-A-Doodling...he doesn't waffle, he just fantasizes!!<P><BR>The biggest push for this divorce from him is either some OW is pushing and/or telling him about all the money he can save!! He is very sick and delusioned!<P>I think your H is very delusioned also!<P>Unfortunately, we get stuck in reality and they get to play and have fun and money and live it up!!!<P>In the end though, Nellie - it will come back to haunt him. Someday - this is going to bite him on the butt and that is when we will know that we truly are the lucky ones.<P>I know it sounds like bull...but I know that we have kept ourselves mature, responsible women. That WILL count for something....and good will come to us!!

Nellie<P>I know how you feel. The only communication I have with my wife is "hurry up with the divorce". Like you I do not have God in my life, perhaps I envy those who do but that's another topic. <P>I do believe that the betrayers will have pain at some point, maybe not all. My wife does not see anything wrong with what she is doing and intends to move in with the OMM in 10 days. Funny enough I'm kind of relieved, it's been hard being "nice" under the same roof when she's seeing him at every opportunity. She has never waffled, even when the kids try and explain what she is doing is wrong (thay have values), she says they will realise how courageous she has been one day(double barf!).<P>I can only say that you are not alone in receiving BS from your spouse. <P>Your husband has no feelings for anyone but himself and the OW. It's the kids that keep me strong and your kids need you to be strong too. Do whatever you have to, in order that you and the kids are protected in the case of a divorce whether it's what you want or not. You may reach the stage where you can take no more and you should have a lawyer at that time.<P>I wish there was some advice I could offer to make you feel better, but I can only share your pain.<P>

Nellie, so sorry for the pain your H is putting you through, it's not fair or right.<P>Just a suggestion -- can he take on 1/2 of the child rearing responsibilities so you can get some much needed rest? I know that those kids mean the world to you and you want them to feel like they are in a stable environment, but I believe if you don't get a break as much as he does that you will burn out. And it won't do them any good to have a burnt out mom. I think at this point your H needs to understand that you're not Superwoman who needs no sleep and can act as if she is on Energizer batteries. It's ridiculous! You cannot live like that, he needs to realize his part in this, and if he can't, please let him know what HE NEEDS to do, which is to take half of these responsibilities (which is so much easier than yours, he has a helpmate and that will die out soon enough).

Nellie,<P>Your situation seems to be at such an impasse. <P>Just an idea - don't clobber me with anything like WS's 2x4 - that is for waffling husbands, not "out of ideas" friends, okay???? but here goes my half brain idea...<P>Dr. Harley says that the affair once exposed begins to lose it's luster, and reality sets in.... Well - in your case, your husband seems to have no conscience. He's not budging.... And no matter what interaction you have with him, it seems it is the same. So what would happen if you threw a real monkey wrench at create chaos - for instance, do the unexpected. Call the OW, and ask her to do the driving so you can stay home with the little ones? Your teenagers could really be rude and obnoxious to her, and she could complain to your husband about your rude teenagers. Too bad my H daughters weren't yours..... (Ha ha had to throw that in...), any how - she might get over the fantasy of this relationship quicker than your husband....<P>Just a thought, okay? <P>Ducking and Covering.....<BR>TNT

Nellie1,<BR>I am so sorry you feel so depressed and hurt but I can understand all that you have written (been there)<BR> No...you would not want to have your h kill you. You are worth so much more and even if life is overwhelming, you know deep down that there are so many people who care for you and rely on you and TRUST you....your children for one. If for nothing else but them at this point, your life is so valuable. While it might be so hard to realize you are so worthy of love, respect, integrity, it is important to know that your children need you as the stable person in their life now. From focussing on your relationship with them, you will find more pleasure in life and stop feeling that you are part of your H life only.<P>It was my H birthday last Fri and my kids went out for dinner with him and gave him gifts. He still has not given my son a card or gift (his b'day was on lastMon) but expected from them and me (he asked my daughter what I had bought him!! but has not spoken to me or had any contact really since may and still expects from me .)<P>Do not allow him to manipulate you to do things which you do not want to...such as go to the mandatory course. Let him find a way to make you.... this requires effort on his part.You have always enabled this man to get what he wanted (as did my H) and then "change us in for a newr and younger model"<BR>Maybe you will find some pleasure in saying "no" to him, that you will not do what he wants. This will allow you to focus on you and your needs (or at least some of them )<P>Focus your energies on enjoying time with your children (even when times with them are tough) and be proud of yourself that you are hanging in there with them while he chooses a different course. Through this immensely painful process which we all wish was a nightmare only, you will be proud of the inner strnghth you have and how well you are coping with an unbelievably stressful situation.<P>As for H taking resonsibility for the kids....good luck. Ask a friend or acquaintance in your new community...people usually are willing to help and this could help you extend your circle of support. I have rarely asked...because when I did I was always turned down! and he now accuses me of not involving him in the parenting!!!! He is accusing me of everything! TOO BAD. I know i have done the best for me and my kids<BR>Nellie1...look in the mirror and take stock of all the ways you have found an inner strength to get through each day...take each day as it comes and tomorrow will probably not be better but take joy in the small and even minute pleasures in life!<P>My H also made me quit my job before discovery...(said it interfered with his life!!!!)<BR>Bought a second car for himself and a holiday home prior to discovery and this is all part of MLC and self esteem..<BR>Someone told me that some adulys going through midlife changes revert to adolescence as they never experienced that transition when they really were adolescence and need to do so now. This does not make it right. Their values etc. stink <BR>are <P>

Nellie,<BR> Sorry you have to be going through all this [censored].Just wanted to share a couple stories with you.I thought this might make a good topic,but I wanted to make sure you saw it.I've talked to a lot of people after my W started her affair and left.I know we wonder what the future holds.I know some other men who's wifes pulled this on them(not trying to be impartial,just that I've talk more to men).One guy's wife,after leaving him and the kids for another man,is now living on Welfare,and is always trying to hit him up for money.He's since remarried to a nice woman,and seems to have a good marriage.Another friend's wife,dumped him for a younger man about 10 years ago.He has a girlfriend(does'nt want to marry again),but his ex-wife has been in about two dozen relationships in the 10 year period.His councelor told him,that if they've been married for 25 years,they must of been doing something right,and she may never find a relationship like that again.I'll aways remember that advice,and maybe that will be the case with our spouses.Maybe this would make a good topic so we could hear some other past case histories,and perhaps what the future will hold for us.Take care. --Murph

Nellie, I would NEVER pretend to give wise advice like this, but in the words of my admittedly messed-up mother:<P>YOU NEED THIS????<P>What this man is doing to you is abuse, just as if he struck you with his fist. And it seems as if you are reaching the end of your rope. Remember -- Plan B is for YOU, not just to force the partner to have all his needs met by the other person, but to start you on the road towards being without him/her, if necessary.<P>I don't know if you are in Plan B or if your H has just left, but either way -- Plan B stops and divorce starts when you've had enough. <P>And it sounds as if you've had enough.<P>I don't know the laws in your state -- can your H just go ahead with the divorce without your cooperation? Because if so, and he's bound and determined to do it, he'll do it. In that case, you should be making sure that you and your children are taken care of. Right now HE'S calling the shots, and you may end up screwed. All the things you gave up for him? You should be telling that to a lawyer.<P>You deserve better than this.

Sheba,<BR>I am pretty sure the OW is pushing for the divorce. She is also probably responsible for some of his unwillingness to see more of the kids, even when they ask him to.<BR>awoken,<BR>I am not sure my H has any feelings whatsoever. When I look in his eyes (which he rarely lets me do, since mostly he looks at the floor) I see no emotion, no life. Irrespective of his feelings for me, I know he used to love his children dearly.<BR>Connor,<BR>He takes the kids two weekends a month, and apparently has her do most of the childcare. I asked him to take the three year old to the dentist, and he said he didn't want to because he would have to take time off from work. Whereas of course, I only work half-time while homeschooling the kids, so apparently I have plenty of time.<BR>trustntruth,<BR>Sometimes I wish my seventeen year old could spend time being obnoxious to the OW - she excells at it - but she will not set foot in the same car as her father, much less the OW. He probably would be willing to go get her at Thanksgiving if she would let him. The older one would be willing to ride in the car with her father if it would help me out, but her college is on the way anyway.<BR>willbok,<BR>I imagine there is some way the courts can make me take the course, although the info I saw was rather vague on that point. I have thought about telling my H that I wouldn't contest the divorce if he was willing to wait another year to ask for a hearing, which would probably save him money, but he probably would say no.<BR>He wanted me to quit my job about six years ago so we could move. What I didn't know was that he wanted me to go back to work after we came back and our sixth child was born, because he never told me until after he left.<BR>Murph,<BR>My H at one point claimed we were not compatible. We have actually grown so much more compatible over the years, and when I pointed out how similar our goals and interests were, he said that he just didn't feel compatible with me. He has changed himself to fit into her lifestyle - I doubt that he would be able to find too many women who would be willing to give up a comfortable livestyle to raise 5 kids including an baby in a house without central heat and work seven days a week milking cows and shoveling manure. <BR>Dazed and Confused,<BR>Yes, he can get a divorce whether I want it or not, it just takes a bit longer. I am not too worried about him contributing financially - maybe I should be, but we seem to be able to work out the financial arrangements on our own - it is only when lawyers get involved that problems arise.