Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Chryss
My parents divorced in an ugly mess, my first marriage failed due to mental illness and the logistics of ending it were horribly destructive to me psychologically. He was my husband in my heart, and I was his wife. In fact, it meant more to me, as I felt that I knew I wanted to be there totally, rather than just because of a piece of paper that said so.

Chryss, is the situation you are in right now not horribly destructive to you psychologically? You have been here for 3 years and the situation and has only got worse and worse. You say you were scared of divorce, yet you entered into an agreement that was almost ensured a worse outcome and a higher rate of divorce if married. The statistics show that marriages that began by living together actually have a much higher divorce rate. To say there is no difference between living together and marriage shows you don't understand what happens in a marriage. They are like night and day.

I understand you are in pain and am not trying to minimize that, but I would point out that the situtation you are in is a result of your arrangement. You say you are all committed, but you can see that your bf is not; you did not believe it enough to go down and even get married. like you said, it is just a piece of paper. You are asking folks here to take your situation as seriously as a marriage, when you have just stated that you don't. You are asking us to take it more seriously than you do.

I bought a new car today and took it for a test drive. Do you think they would have taken my committment seriously if I would have said I won't bother to sign papers and pay you for it, that is just a "piece of paper." I "feel" committed in my heart.

Of course you can get help here, but I hope that you keep an open mind and read Dr Harley's words on this topic. He is right. And you are living proof.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 77
C
Chryss Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 77
Melody
I understand what you are saying, and I certainly can respect the sanctity of the vows of marriage. I do have a clear understanding of what a marriage is, what it entails and the commitment and work that it takes to build it. On this site I have seen several relationships where the marriage is less than 4 years old, both parties have cheated, and children are being used as chattel. The commitment and relationship that my partner and I had far exceeded the maturity level and understanding of these types of situations. I am not saying that I expect anyone here to take my relationship more seriously than I do. It appears "you" do not take my relationship seriously, and that it your prerogative. I appreciate your perspective as just that - your perspective.

If I have given the impression to you that I am scared of divorce, I do not recall saying those words. I know several people who have been in committed relationships without marrying for over 30 years. To assume that I know nothing of the difference between marriage and living together is really quite an assumption. The situation I am in is not a result of my "arrangement" as you put it. I did not take a car for a test drive, and expect to take the car with out signing the papers and paying for it. That is an oversimplification. I most certainly "paid" for the car. My relationship has been almost 12 years - longer that a good portion of the marriages on this site. The answer to situations do not always fit neatly in a box to be put and a shelf and labelled.

Not meaning to sound harsh, and I apologize if this appears that way.



Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 77
C
Chryss Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 77
Thanks doingfine. You are absolutely correct, and in fact, plan B really is kind of brilliant when you see it that way. Not easy, but brilliant. The best chance for the relationship, and the best chance for retaining your own sanity. If I post here and ramble, I beg indulgence- I am at my very most vulnerable and just "dump" it all here. Maybe it makes sense sometimes and I sound like I'm a sensible person, maybe I seem like a raving lunatic. But this is what I need right now, and I'm doing it here.

Thank you for not judging that my relationship of almost 12 is not "worthy" of equal consideration on this board.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
I wish you the best, Chryss. smile


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 77
C
Chryss Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 77
Thank you Melody, and I wish the same for you.

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,892
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,892
Quote
Thank you for not judging that my relationship of almost 12 is not "worthy" of equal consideration on this board.

Not trying to be funny but would you have come to this site if it was called Living Together Builders?

Just trying to understand your peevishness towards people that are trying to help you.

Best of luck.


Divorced:
"Never shelter anyone from the realities of their decisions": Noodle

You believe easily what you hope for ernestly

Infidelity does not kill marriages, the lying does
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 77
C
Chryss Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 77
Alright - I am digesting the comments made, and am somewhat more open to hearing what is being said. I did take offence to the comments that I was not aware of the difference between being married or not. In reviewing and considering the categories outlined, i.e. freeloader, renter, buyer, I think the renter may apply in the case of my partner. I am probably presenting as "peevish" in response to feeling that the suffering that is occuring is somehow "less" due to not fitting into someone's belief of a category. I see many, many people on this site - more than not - who embody the freeloader/renter mentality in their legitimate marriages. In truth, there appears to be more people who in fact ended up here because taking the step of getting married did not affect that freeloader/renter mentality in the least.

That being said, I was a buyer. I believe that he was a buyer, who evolved into a renter mentality when we separated for two months last summer after 11 years.

Yes, I have been coming here on and off for three years. And yes, things were difficult during all of those three years. We struggled in the dark with many, many things beyond the state of our relationship - i.e. blending our families of four kids, living across the street from the most violent native uprising in North America shortly after relocating to an entirely new community, having a child with bipolar,etc. My best friend has been happily "married" (not) for 22 years and has four wonderful kids in their teens and shares a beautiful loving relationship with her partner. She is from Spain and he is from England, and they do not share the perspective that they are not committed to eachother because they are not legally married. She is his husband and he is her wife, and their relationship is one of the most solid I have ever known.

In retrospect, do I wish we had married years ago - given what has happened now, yes. Although in truth I don't believe it would have changed what has occurred. When a committed relationship encounters these problems, i.e. affairs, they happen regardless of marital status. Needs were not met, LBs and AOs accumulate, and the partner becomes associated more with painful experiences than joyful ones. I prescribe to Harley's philosophy - but I am feeling that I am being told by some that I should not be benefitting from trying to implement the tools he prescribes based on not being inclusive in the "marriage" category.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Chryss, Dr. Harley's article about living together versus marriage is also quite enlightening: Living Together Before Marriage


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,463
Likes: 9
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,463
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by Chryss
I see many, many people on this site - more than not - who embody the freeloader/renter mentality in their legitimate marriages. In truth, there appears to be more people who in fact ended up here because taking the step of getting married did not affect that freeloader/renter mentality in the least.
Dear Chryss,

I am the embodiment of your insight here. I have been legally married for 20 years now and have experienced my H's long-running affair. When I broadened my reading on this site beyond that of affair recovery, to explore Dr Harley's concepts of the "buyer" (etc), I began to see that the problems in my own marriage were related to my and my H's approaches to the state of marriage.

My very first post here was about whether my H and I were ever really buyers in our marriage, which at the time I married I thought we were. If you are interested in seeing this issue from the point of view of a married BS, and you have a high tolerance for long and rambling posts and have a cup of tea to hand, you might care to read that post. (I'm sure you know how to click on my name, go to "view posts" and go to my first one.)

If I were to summarise here what I tried to say there, it would be to say that today, in Western Europe and North America, we treat marriage more like living together, and there is a cost to doing so. Not everybody feels this way, of course, but it is very common for people like I was 20 years ago to think nothing of living together before marriage, getting married after pregnancy and even after the birth of the children and to see no difference between many marriages and many living together arrangements.

In this view, if marriage is not really any different from a "committed" living together arrangement, then what is the big deal when a marriage breaks up? It is very sad, but these things happen. We should try to continue being good parents to the children and should be civil, and if possible friendly, to each other.

Well, that was my problem as a married BS. However, you as an unmarried "BS" are being asked to consider how having NOT taken the step of marriage has affected your, and more crucially your partner's, approach to your relationship and infidelity. In many people's views, living together can be indistinguishable from marriage, as in the case of your friends. I too have friend that live as you describe. However, how can we know what living together means to each of the very different couples that we know with these arrangements?

Marriage in the West has been clearly defined as a legal (and often religious) commitment to one person for life, with financial and other obligations between those parties and to the children. We can assume that people are subscribing to that concept when they make their oath, although in seems in practice, with people divorcing after a few weeks, that many do not.

What recognised values are people subscribing to when they live together? Where are those values defined?

Originally Posted by Chryss
That being said, I was a buyer. I believe that he was a buyer, who evolved into a renter mentality when we separated for two months last summer after 11 years.
When a committed relationship encounters these problems, i.e. affairs, they happen regardless of marital status. Needs were not met, LBs and AOs accumulate, and the partner becomes associated more with painful experiences than joyful ones. I prescribe to Harley's philosophy - but I am feeling that I am being told by some that I should not be benefitting from trying to implement the tools he prescribes based on not being inclusive in the "marriage" category.

I did not see that you were being told that you should not be benefiting from MB tools because you are not married. I think the question is whether a relationship in which, by choice, a public statement of commitment has never been made can be helped by the tools designed for relationships in which this public, legal and often religious declaration has been made.

Not being married while living together is an act of will, a choice and a public declaration as much as marriage is. It is not the absence of a choice, or a choice delayed or postponed, wouldn't you agree? Might it be that this choice not to make a public and legal declaration of commitment might have had a bearing on your partner more than you realised?


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
While there are most certainly bad marriages - and we see them every day on this forum - that does not mean that living together is good. Living together is a month to month agreement, whereas marriage is a life time committment. Making comparisons to the lowest common denominator doesn't make living together a good bet, it just makes folks wonder why you can't make the comparison to the highest commmon denominator. And we know why.

Living together has all the dynamics of DATING, in that it is a TEST DRIVE, so it is more closely related to DATING, not marriage. In fact, Dr Harley doesn't even consider this infidelity because they are not married.

Comparing the worst marriages to the best shack up situations doesn't change that either, since the rule is not defined by the exception, but the norm. The truth is that there is a REASON that marriages after living together are much weaker than marriages than did not.

This is not a put down to point out the differences between living together and marriage, but an attempt to help others see that it usually ends up in the kind of situation Chryss is in now and to help others see the inherent problems that come from living together.

excerpt from Living Together Before Marriage

It's a tempting argument. After all, a date tends to be artificial. Each person is "up" for the occasion, and they make an effort to have a good time together. But marriage is quite different from dating. In marriage, couples are together when they're "down," too. Wouldn't it make sense for a couple to live together for a while, just to see how they react to each other's "down" times? If they discover that they can't adjust when they live together, they don't have to go through the hassle of a divorce. Besides, isn't it easier to adjust when you don't feel trapped by marriage?

The problem with those arguments is that marriage changes everything. If couples that live together think that after marriage everything will be the same, they don't understand what marriage does to a couple, both positively and negatively.

In my experience and in reports I've read, the chances of a divorce after living together are huge, much higher than for couples who have not lived together prior to marriage. If living together were a test of marital compatibility, the statistics should show opposite results -- couples living together should have stronger marriages. But they don't. They have weaker marriages.

To understand why this is the case, I suggest that you consider why couples who live together don't marry. Ask yourself that very question. Why did you choose to live with your boyfriend instead of marrying him?

The answer is that you were not ready to make that commitment to him yet.
First, you wanted to see if you still loved him after you cooked meals together, cleaned the apartment together and slept together. In other words, you wanted to see what married life would be like without the commitment of marriage.

But what you don't seem to realize is that you will never know what married life is like unless you're married. The commitment of marriage adds a dimension to your relationship that puts everything on its ear. Right now, you are testing each other to see if you are compatible. If either of you slips up, the test is over, and you are out the door. Marriage doesn't work that way. Slip-ups don't end the marriage, they just end the love you have for each other.

What, exactly, is the commitment of marriage? It is an agreement that you will take care of each other for life, regardless of life's ups and downs. You will stick it out together through thick and thin. But the commitment of living together isn't like that at all. It is simply a month-to-month rental agreement. As long as you behave yourself and keep me happy, I'll stick around.

Habits are hard to break, and couples that live together before marriage get into the habit of following their month-to-month rental agreement. In fact, they often decide to marry, not because they are willing to make a lifetime commitment to each other, but because the arrangement has worked out so well that they can't imagine breaking their lease, so to speak. They say the words of the marital agreement, but they still have the terms of their rental agreement in mind.

Couples who have not lived together before marriage, on the other hand, have not lived under the terms of the month-to-month rental agreement. They begin their relationship assuming that they are in this thing for life, and all their habits usually reflect that commitment.




"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
the "paper" was something that held less value to us then the commitment (AKA the marriage was already dead, we were only married on paper)

in our minds, we were married (AKA in my mind I am divorced)

husband in my heart (AKA my heart decides who is my spouse, not some legal piece of paper)

just a piece of paper doesn't make us more committed (AKA we married for the wrong reasons, therefore the marriage is invalid)

Isn't it eerie how live-in relationships speak of the marriage committment in the exact same terms that waywards do?



Chryss - you may not see it right now, but your attitude about marriage is also the attitude that permitted your X-boyfriend to leave you.

Living together as if married = commitment is in the moment, and dependent on circumstances of the heart.

I am not saying you are not heartbroken - I am saying your live-in-relationship was build on a cornerstone that disregards legal marriage commitment (eerily similar to waywards in an adulterous affair)

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Originally Posted by Chryss
I hope you are not saying that I can't come here for support, because I am in dire need of it right now.

Of course you can ask for support.
Here is my 2 cents:

Separate everything from him.
Plan B like you live on Mars.
You can't be seen.
You can't be heard.
Get yourself through mourning.



Do not consider reunification with him if that means continuing to live-as-if married.

You're obviously a quality woman ... wait for the whole enchilada this time.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by Chryss
I hope you are not saying that I can't come here for support, because I am in dire need of it right now.

Of course you can ask for support.
Here is my 2 cents:

Separate everything from him.
Plan B like you live on Mars.
You can't be seen.
You can't be heard.
Get yourself through mourning.



Do not consider reunification with him if that means continuing to live-as-if married.

You're obviously a quality woman ... wait for the whole enchilada this time.
'

DITTO! Raise the bar and you raise your VALUE. People value that which doesn't come for FREE.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 164
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 164
Chryss:

Hi - I've been away from the boards for a month because I needed a break, but thought I'd try to help.

I'm now "completing" my 4th month of Plan B. In my case, it has been broken twice; the first time because I own a business that our state treats as "joint" and I needed to inform him of legal issues in order to ask for his signature on a business loan. He immediately tried to contact me (which he had not done previously). He initially left me a voicemail that was clearly shocked and sympathetic and offered to use the house equity (3/4 of which is my investment, not his) to help get a loan. When I didn't respond, he contacted my IM and made the whole agenda clear; he wanted to use the financial situation of the business to force me to follow through on the divorce. When that fell through (I backed out because the loan terms were not affordable and chose not to respond to the "quick divorce" attempt)), I didn't hear from him again (he has been adhering to my Plan B letter).

The only other contact was another formal letter written to him as a Board member/shareholder by me as CEO because I am required by law to send an annual report, and opted to hold the "shareholders" meeting by letter rather than by telecon in order to avoid any verbal contact with him. Under the law I gave him 10 days to respond to the "state of the business" letter, simply by signing it to indicate he'd received in and understood it, and to mail a copy back.

And _there's_ the difference that I owe to Plan B. The first business contact was one in which I was really hoping he'd snap out of all his fog and realize that he'd destroyed not only my life but my livelihood, would have an epiphany, would start working toward meeting the conditions of my Plan B letter. I believe (based on an email he sent to my attorney at that time) that he did realize that, and only at that moment - but then he chose to use his realization (which clearly upset him) to justify his effort to get out of the marriage quick, "reasoning" that it would be better for me and the business. Mind you, he didn't ask any questions - he just took the face value of what had been written to him so far, leapt to the conclusions he wanted to reach, and then made his "offer". It hurt terribly at the time, but it was just what I needed - another affirmation (after 2 months of ZERO contact) that he was as self-centered, obsessed, and finished with the marriage as he was before - maybe moreso.

The second time I had to contact him - just three weeks ago - I HATED IT. I tried to find a way around the law but couldn't. I even tried getting a "CEO proxy" to write and send the letter but the law is pretty darn specific. So I found a legal way just to "inform" him of what was happening and get a legal statement back that he had been informed. The letter was "just the facts" - totally impersonal. And this time I found myself hoping that he would NOT respond even with a signature and mail back. I didn't want to see his hand writing. And because a refusal to respond helps me build a legal case I can use to get him out of the business.

The difference between the first contact and the second is like night and day - for ME. It's Plan B at 2 months and at 4 months. In the middle of February I actually had 3 good days in a row - days where I didn't think about him much, didn't obsess, and wasn't crying. The following week I had another 2 good days, and the last week I had 4 good days. The last three days I've been having nightmares about him and OW every night, am exhausted and weepy as I write this - but I know that this too, will pass. I'm pressing on.

I started Plan B like you did - hoping it would bring him back - but also knowing that it was absolutely the best thing for me, and doubting it would bring him back. (My whole story is posted under miriam123/"Wavering" somewhere on the board; I'll find it and link to it if you want.) I still love my husband deeply. but I do not love him so much I want the relapsed alcoholic/dry drunk/OW-addled, irresponsible child-man back.

I can't listen to love songs without bawling (I have to turn off the music or get up and leave.) I miss my house, my dogs, my life, and the man I pledged myself to. I miss him in bed, I miss his smile, I miss his voice, I miss the smell of him. I miss our family. I miss cooking for him, I miss coming home, I miss my roses - I miss thousands of things.

But, even at 4 months it is better. I am not caught up in the craziness. My life is moving on by fits and starts. I am beginning to think about the future without him, little by little. I am re-discovering things I used to do before we were married and finding I still enjoy some of them. I've lost weight (a side effect of the betrayal and stress) but am now building on the weight loss to lose more. I feel better physically and emotionally as a result. I still have a great relationship with my stepkids. I am beginning to make plans to travel to see my granddaughter.

It's hard. The pain is enormous and multifaceted and feels like it will never end. I know. But all I can say is that Plan B really, really, really is NOT about getting him back. If that happens - and you still want him - great. But what it is really, really, really about is getting YOU back...and you have to go through it for a while before you even begin to understand what that means. It took me almost 3 months for my head to clear.

Find ways to be good to yourself. Reach out to friends, and if you've lost track, go find old ones and make some new ones. Exercise - a good 30 minutes will kick up endorphins. GET OFF the sleeping pills/anti-anxiety meds (they depress you further) and go to your physician for anti-depressants - figure you'll be on them for a minimum of 6 months - they'll help stablize your entire system and will help you regulate sleep again. I like the other things you said you were doing - the spa, etc. - just keep it up. Have faith that the human mind and heart will begin to heal (despite ourselves, sometimes!) over time.

Sorry this is so long.

I'm pulling for you.

- M


Me - BW/BS Age: 56 Married 7 1/2 years Divorced Jan 2010
EA began '07 PA began Jan '08
Found out July 2008 Found MB September
Plan A 09/03/2008
I filed D 10/31/2008
Dark Plan B began 11/09/2008
Emerged from Plan B 11/15/2009
Court date (final) scheduled for 12/16/2009
Divorce Final January 2010
Plan B recommenced upon Divorce

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 164
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 164
Chryss -

Also - what Pep said. kiss


Me - BW/BS Age: 56 Married 7 1/2 years Divorced Jan 2010
EA began '07 PA began Jan '08
Found out July 2008 Found MB September
Plan A 09/03/2008
I filed D 10/31/2008
Dark Plan B began 11/09/2008
Emerged from Plan B 11/15/2009
Court date (final) scheduled for 12/16/2009
Divorce Final January 2010
Plan B recommenced upon Divorce

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 77
C
Chryss Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 77
Thank you to everyone who took such time to write. I see in many ways that what you say is right. For example, in many past situations, maybe if we had married and DID have the buyer mentality, we would have pushed that much harder to find ways through the maze. Maybe being married would have inherently made us buyers - as we had both lost so much during the end of our first marriages. I don't know. You are probably right. On the other hand, I believe in commitment,and I believed in it in my first marriage. And when the situation became intolerable, I did NOT leave for a long time, when I really should have. My commitment to the marriage kept me in a very bad, very unhealthy place for years. I felt trapped by my ethics, trapped by the vows I took - that regardless of his illness and abuse he heaped on our family due to it - that I was obligated to work it out no matter what. I could NOT leave. I would NOT break up our family and end the marriage.

I can see now that the past had a huge influence on my current relationship. I was committed - but knowing my own values, I knew that if it went badly - I would stay because of the vow. Obviously right this moment I am realizing I have very weak boundaries.....

You have all provided a whole new dimension to my perspective that I didn't fully entertain until now. I'm going to think about this alot and will past later.



Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Originally Posted by Chryss
I'm going to think about this alot and will past later.

Good for you!

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Chryss
On the other hand, I believe in commitment,and I believed in it in my first marriage. And when the situation became intolerable, I did NOT leave for a long time, when I really should have. My commitment to the marriage kept me in a very bad, very unhealthy place for years. I felt trapped by my ethics, trapped by the vows I took - that regardless of his illness and abuse he heaped on our family due to it -

Aren't you doing the exact same thing here, though?

Can I make a suggestion? Instead of looking for the lowest common denominator to make you feel better about your situation, why not accept your situation for what it really IS: BAD , and look for solutions?

We can always find situations worse than ours, but it doesn't make our bad situation good. And it doesn't solve the problem at hand.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Chryss -

FYI

When I was much younger, I was in a "committed" unmarried relationship for 14 years - it was a train wreck in slow motion ... but I could not see it coming because I was a passenger on the train- he broke my heart and nearly ruined me for marriage

but I showed him - I live well - I love well - and I made a much happier life without his uncertainly and his reeling me back with half-assed promises of "commitment in out heart"

I have been married to my H 28 years coming this May - loveheart

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,892
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,892
Quote
You have all provided a whole new dimension to my perspective that I didn't fully entertain until now

I see that you have been praying for your wandering partner to have an epiphany.....looks like the correct person had one instead.


Divorced:
"Never shelter anyone from the realities of their decisions": Noodle

You believe easily what you hope for ernestly

Infidelity does not kill marriages, the lying does
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 140 guests, and 97 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Overcomer4513, caraduke, Convict20, GTNY, Avianna
71,737 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,550
Posts2,322,810
Members71,737
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5