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JL

You know sitting there with the Psychologist yesterday I could hear you saying, and others, in the imaginary voices I have for all of you(!) that this woman is not a good one to listen to. She is not for my marriage. She is for the woman making her own life apart from the man.
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Let me ask you this. Why did you marry you did not love? Most people would not do this.

Why do you have trouble doing something simple like simply asking him to hug and hold you why you cried your eyes out for your brother? Even friends do this for one another and you state repeatedly your H has always been your good friend.

Why are you constantly struggling with this "blockage" within you? You had it before your H, and you will have it if you leave him.

Why has your H hung in there with you?
I think I know the answer and I KNOW BCB knows. He was the right man for the job, he has known it although I am sure he has doubts now. You knew and know it that is why you married him.

He is not your problem

He is the right person for me. I know I stand at a crossroads in my life. I don't know how to let it all go. I think life as I know it today has me at breaking point. I know I still hold on tightly to everything so that the ropes don't snap - they're pretty taut. I know I should let them snap but it's all I know. I think you and everyone else and my H wishes they would snap. I'm so grateful my H is hanging in there for me even though I tell him to let go.

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You are battling to break free. I sincerely believe it is not your H you need to break free of, but the shackles of the past.


I called home and my Dad was at my Mum's house and I said hello and he just handed the phone to my Mum?!?! The past has GOT to GO!


bcboyb #2202364 01/29/09 05:55 PM
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BCB
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Nowis
I have been learning and I encourage you that most often prior to a breakthrough there will be a storm or a crisis. This crisis is important as it allows us to get to the end of ourselves.

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So when you are ready ask God for direction. Ask God for help and keep asking until you get an answer. I can honestly tell you it works. I have been cynical and skeptical all my life, and I am experiencing an amazing breakthrough. All I can say is it is real and God does answer prayers.
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I am praying for you Nowis. Seek Him with all your heart and all your strength, be persistent. God wants to pour out His love and fill that void in your heart. The depression you feel is only a side effect of the hurt and rejection you experienced. God is healing me from this and He can do the same for you.

I would like that. I would like to be able to say this has happened to me. I'm glad it's real for you. I'd like to be able to say it's real for me too.



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Well then what is holding you back. It is not all that hard once you realize it. It is only hard when you want to hold on tight to the past because that is what you know. All you have to loose is your fear and condemnation.

Let me help you.
Repeat this
'Lord I am tired and I am weary and I need hour help. I am a sinner and I need your forgiveness, Jesus come into my life and save me. I accept you died for me on the cross and I pray you send your Holy Spirit to teach, edify and comfort me as you promise in the Bible"

Then go find a church that believes in the healing power of prayer, the redemption of what Jesus did on the cross, and the power of the Holy Spirit, and get some guidance on how to develop your spiritual life.


Me 58 BS


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Nowis,

You said
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Maybe the 'door to God' is one I am reluctant to open. You see, sitting there in this anxiety/depression group last night, at this church; open with prayer, close with prayer, prayer, prayer, prayer, I realized how rejecting of God that I am. How irritated I am with it all. You see I expected more from God but feel He didn't really show up.

Oh I think God showed up.

You know what I do when I am in church and people pray. I pray by giving thanks for the happiness of friends and family. I give thanks for my children and their happiness. I give thanks for my friends and families ability to deal with the bad times. I give thanks for having them in my life. I give thanks for the life I have lived and the people that have been in it.

And the list goes on. But mostly Nowis my prayers are prayers of thanks, because in my life and the lives of the many many people I have met in my life there are far more good things than bad.

I mention this because I find it comforting to know that many good things have come my way and the way of my friends.

I wonder, if you examined your life in light of the people in it and what they have brought to your life. You had a rough childhood, but many many good people have come into your life.

Just thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

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Nowis,

Well now, you are hearing voices???? cool

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You know sitting there with the Psychologist yesterday I could hear you saying, and others, in the imaginary voices I have for all of you(!) that this woman is not a good one to listen to. She is not for my marriage. She is for the woman making her own life apart from the man.

This brings up a interesting question. Am I being too consistent, or is it too predictable?

The problem with counseling is in my mind that the counselor often brings in their own baggage. I think we should all be allowed to rummage around in the counselors bags before deciding if we want them to try and help us. smile

I had another thought that just sprang into my head when you said
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He is the right person for me. I know I stand at a crossroads in my life. I don't know how to let it all go. I think life as I know it today has me at breaking point. I know I still hold on tightly to everything so that the ropes don't snap - they're pretty taut. I know I should let them snap but it's all I know. I think you and everyone else and my H wishes they would snap. I'm so grateful my H is hanging in there for me even though I tell him to let go.

I had this image of someone with ADD or ADHD trying for all she is worth to control her life. She makes sure things were right and happy, and in the process harmed her life. She knows it, but she cannot let go. My W and I have a friend that is shall we say "very very focused" wink My W says she is like a dog with a bone. My response is that she cannot tell the difference between a bone and a rock. Most times she is knawing on rock.

I am not accusing you of this, but I wonder if your need to control, fear of letting go, and thus control is perhaps driven by something chemical rather than by your life experiences. It is something to think about.

You know your H is the right person and yet...

Have you ever thought about this?

Just another thought.

God Bless,

JL

PS: I'll try to not be so predictable. I got to keep you on your toes you know. :pfft:

Last edited by Just Learning; 01/30/09 02:56 AM.
bcboyb #2202913 01/30/09 02:12 PM
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BCB

Okay I give it up. I told my H last night and sent him the last few pages of this thread. He totally agreed.

I told him I need help with the giving up thing and he says it will be moment by moment, day by day, just letting go and praying.

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Yes, I understand JL.

"Oh I think God showed up". I get it and then I don't. I will not over think that one.

I do have a gratitude journal and I do think each day about the good things about my H. I am thankful for friends and, you know what, the sunshine, landscape, space... or is it more complex than that?

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So, calls back and forth to the UK. No sign of the postmortem results and no death certificate. It has been a week today and we probably won't head home until next week. This whole thing has me feeling balmy!

Am I hearing voices?... LOL, for sure I am! Even when the pc is switched off - that's how much you guys get to me..lol!
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I am not accusing you of this, but I wonder if your need to control, fear of letting go, and thus control is perhaps driven by something chemical rather than by your life experiences. It is something to think about.

Something chemical? Really? Is that possible? I don't think that is me but I kind of get what you are saying. I think it is more deeply ingrained habits of doing things for myself because I couldn't rely on anyone else to be there for me. I didn't fully rely on my H and look where it got me!

I know my H is the right person and 23 years later I'm just beginning to open myself up and trust him.


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NOwis,

Do something for me would you. Just walk up to your H give him a big hug and a good kiss. The man needs it. And you, well you need it too, if I am right. smile

I am truly sorry this is taking so long, Oh! that things would happen as fast as they do on the crime scene shows on TV.

You do realize don't you that the fact that you struggle with this seems to me a good indicator that within you is much love, and a deeper love for your H than you realize or can show. I really think your struggling to break out, when in really maybe it would simply better to relax just a bit and understand the issue isn't IF you love your H, it is simply HOW you love your H.

You see his love for you in his words and actions. He knows deep down you love him, although I am sure he has doubts. Perhaps, this is really an issue of HOW TO SHOW, rather than WHETHER YOU DO.

You don't want to disappoint him do you? You fear him in some ways don't you? He is close, too close isn't he?

Think about it Nowis.

God Bless,

JL

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JL

Okay, the hug I can do, the kiss I can't. Kissing is not back yet......
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You see his love for you in his words and actions. He knows deep down you love him, although I am sure he has doubts. Perhaps, this is really an issue of HOW TO SHOW, rather than WHETHER YOU DO.

Simple but brings complex feelings.

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You don't want to disappoint him do you? You fear him in some ways don't you? He is close, too close isn't he?

I already have disappointed him. Fear him? I'm not sure what you mean.





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Nowis there is a program you may want to look at it is called the Spiritual Plumbline and it deals with the issues you are struggling with but in a spiritual direction. See if there is a church in your area putting it on. I just took it and it is great.

There is a book that you can buy it is called the "Walls around my heart" by Dr. Bruce Thompson. It is written for followers of Christ and how to become free from the chains that bind us.

You have a gaping wound from the relationship with your father, it is affecting your marriage. You need release and forgiveness and to forgive. It is all possible.


Me 58 BS


bcboyb #2203446 01/31/09 12:26 PM
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BCB

Still in Hawaii? How are things going overall. What is happening in this phase of your journey? Are things different to what you expected? What's happening at home and your family?

Yes, I will look for the book.

Spoke to my Dad on the phone yesterday for the first time in years. He was very business like. My mom said that "maybe you two can talk when you come over"!! Yep, nearly dropped the phone. I would like to have some answers and peace with my dad. There will be a lot to take in next week.

Thanks for sticking with me and sharing.

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Yes I am still in Hawaii and sorry if I mislead you the course is the Divine Plumbline and the book is by Bruce Thompson. We had the priveledge of sitting under his teaching the last 5 days and it was very freeing.

There is light at the end of the tunnel Nowis. As far as my situation goes it is in Gods hands. My wife will need some healing and revelation.

In the meantime I am really having an incredible experience here. It is absolutely what I needed to do. I am experiencing a wonderful restoration and peace. I give all the glory to God for his Mercy and Grace that He has given to me over the last weeks.
Forgiveness and repentance are wonderful things when employed properly. God can free us from all kinds of bondage.

God Bless you and your family


Me 58 BS


bcboyb #2204083 02/01/09 06:47 PM
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BCB

I am chuffed that things are going well for you. You seem to be a great place of peace and understanding.



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Hi all, it has been some time.

Am back from the UK. My brother was buried a couple of days ago.

Lots of thoughts. Wasn't sure whether to just leave this post where it was.

Back to reality(?!) I guess.

How's things BCB?

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It was quite a trip home. I saw lots of family that I hadn't seen since I was a child. It gave me a sense of family that I had not known. My children were bowled over by it and excited to know they had lots more cousins. I saw my Dad who was 'matter of fact' about everything. It felt absolutely pointless trying to make sense of him and our relationship. We all just came together in grief, I suppose. All too aware that life is short and life is too short to worry about what relationship I never had. He is who he is and I am who I am.

I am very much aware that my marriage continues to suffer. I feel enormously sad for my H but so frozen that I can't do anything much about it. I guess with all that has gone on I am rather depressed. So, will go back to the doctor and re-start the anti-d's. The way we live is still the same - automatic. He physically needs me but I cannot be with him in that way. He cannot understand it. He questions why I react the way I do. The way I have pretty much always done.

I continue to ask 'where to from here?'. As it is, I don't know how to get going again right now.

Sorry to be so back and forth.

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Stellakat

I wonder if you could help?

I've been reading through my post to help me get back on track. This is what you last wrote to me.
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Not change a thing?!?! If that was the case, what would you do? Just carry on the way you are? Learn fast to accept and compromise? What would that marriage look like and how does it survive? I guess like we are now?
_________________________

No, not exactly.....What I would do is find the ways you DO NOT MESH, the things YOU FEEL YOU NEED from him and then find special ways of articulating what you need. To do all this, you both need to carry on the WAYS YOU REALLY ARE!

Once you both look closely AT HOW YOU EACH REALLY ARE, then perhaps, once you understand how each other is and what makes each other tick, then perhaps you will be able to communicate with the other one better, maybe even in thier language.

Hopefully a tiny bridge of "deep need communication" will be built by you or by both (since you are the one who seems to have more unmet needs here you might be the one who has to take the lead) that will join both of you so you can cross that large dark chasm.

Sometimes it is hard to learn to speak about deep needs. I had to learn how to do it. You must take only ONE need at a time, more than one is too hard.

:)Step one is to first view the NEED itself, observe the need, get to know the need in yourself, accept the need, accept that you have that need, accept yourself for having needs and that need in particular and love yourself and that need and gradually all your needs you are realizing.

:oStep two would be to look at your mate and see them as they are.

Step three would be to learn to SPEAK out, and speak ABOUT your one need, the first need you want to articulate and share,,,,, to the mate. In a positive, loving happy way. With total awareness of what that need is.

I hope you can try this! It really helps a relationship get closer. And I hope you can learn to become aware of your needs in such a deep way that you can learn to ARTICULATE them to another human being. And I hope if you articulate a need clearly and in a very good way to your husband, taking into account his limitations and his personality, in order to really really communicate to him, that he responds and understands where you are coming from.

Perhaps, if you hammer down your own needs, two or three of them at first, and then if you learn really well how to articulate those needs to another human being, perhaps then you will be able to articulate this to your husband. Once he has understood and heard your language, this language, the special language of "expressing deep human needs" coming from your mouth,,,,well, he may just learn to express his deep needs to you!

If you both express your deepest needs to each other and both understand the other one, then neither one of you HAS TO CHANGE YOUR PERSONALITIES, RATHER, YOUR COMMUNICATION OF DEEP NEEDS WILL CREATE A SOLID TINY BRIDGE OF LOVE ...OR YOUR LOVE WILL CREATE A BRIDGE OF UNDERSTANDING....SO THAT YOU CAN MESH IN THIS WAY AND STILL KEEP YOUR PERSONALITITES INTACT, WITHOUT CHANGE.

(I am sorry I dont know where this stuff is coming from tonite but if it helps go for it!)


I am rather frustrated at the moment. My H, for the most part, says nothing about our M. He never brings up how things are, even when they are clearly bad. So, usually, I am the one to speak up and say what's bothering me. We aren't meeting each others needs right now. So today I told him of one need that I have. I need for him to talk to me and ask me how it's going. Also, I need him to tell me how he is and what he needs. In the past he has said that I am self-sufficient and don't share with him. That I don't 'lean' on him. I am trying to do this. However, when I share I don't think he can handle it. He goes into the pattern of "there must be something wrong with me, I never get it right", "I don't know why I don't ask you". Inwardly, I roll my eyes (I know, I know, that's bad). I think, here I am trying to lean on you, just share my need for you to ask me about me so I can lean on you and then he caves. It feels empty. I honestly don't think he wants to do the work. I read about so many BS on this board who want to get to the bottom of everything, but my H just floats around 'out there'.

What is happening here with him? What am I missing or getting wrong?

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My H, for the most part, says nothing about our M. He never brings up how things are, even when they are clearly bad.

Sounds like he clams up and blinds himself to the fact that things are bad in your home and marriage. Has he always coped with difficulties using this same particular coping device?

So today I told him of one need that I have. I need for him to talk to me and ask me how it's going. Also, I need him to tell me how he is and what he needs.

I count FOUR very big needs here. It is OK. It is FOUR HUGE COMPLEX needs you are bringing up here. These are important needs. Not just for you but for him if he thinks he needs it or not.

However, when I share I don't think he can handle it. He goes into the pattern of "there must be something wrong with me, I never get it right", "I don't know why I don't ask you".

Sounds like he wants to go into hia armadillo mode and like in the army, "don't ask, don't tell"....

Has he learned this approach from childhood? There is some reason he sticks to the same bad approach. I want to find out why. This is clearly not helping your marriage. It really sounds like he expects his wife to be a simple woman who cooks and cleans, is happy, and has no deep needs or problems.

One idea is to write on large cards you can prop up on the table like "folded in the middle cardboard" that will stand up where he tends to hang out.

On these cardboard stand up cards, write:

1. " Tell me how you are now"

2. "Tell me what you need now"

3. "Ask me how it is going with ME, now?"

4. " Listen to me tell you how it is going with me today"

Now, make two or three copies of all these little "placecards" you can spread around the house. Start with one need only or two if you want. Spread them around the house. Instead of rolling your eyes inwardly, OUTWARDLY POINT to the CARDS and smile with NO WORDS> He will get the idea you want him to address one of these statements. Make this excersize fun. You can include the children. They too, can say how it is going with them. They can learn to point to the cards. It will be a family excersize in good communication. Try it.

Like Obama has to try different, creative things (not knowing if they will work) to rescue our country from complete ruin, you too can try these approaches at getting your needs met. See how this works and then come back with more questions. This can be changed according to how your husband responds to it.

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Stellakat
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Sounds like he clams up and blinds himself to the fact that things are bad in your home and marriage. Has he always coped with difficulties using this same particular coping device?

Unfortunately, yes.

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I count FOUR very big needs here. It is OK. It is FOUR HUGE COMPLEX needs you are bringing up here. These are important needs. Not just for you but for him if he thinks he needs it or not.

Yeah, I guess when I look at it, they are. He probably hates these questions.

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Sounds like he wants to go into hia armadillo mode and like in the army, "don't ask, don't tell"....

Has he learned this approach from childhood? There is some reason he sticks to the same bad approach. I want to find out why. This is clearly not helping your marriage. It really sounds like he expects his wife to be a simple woman who cooks and cleans, is happy, and has no deep needs or problems.

Yes, I think he learned this from childhood. His parents taught him to avoid conflict I believe. To be silent and not rock the boat, put others feelings before your own was the right and christian thing to do. He was bullied at school too and his parents told him never to fight back! So, I can assume this is playing out in our M? He says he doesn't want a passive, quiet, obliging wife, but honestly, I really think he does.

Your ideas about the cards makes laugh and sigh at the same time. I will try it to see if anything changes. Yes, my kids will no doubt love it - they are at that age where everything is a game or mockery! Besides, as you say, it is an approach to getting my needs met.

Thanks a lot.

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Stella, I think the cards are an awesome idea. There was a time in our life where we were both depressed, and our two car garage became filled with stuff we didn't need. I cleaned it out, but my dear family kept putting stuff in there, even though they agreed not to. I didn't know about POJA back then, finding out what would have made them enthusiastic about putting stuff where it goes instead of the garage.

So I put a big sign on the garage door "NOTHING GETS PUT IN HERE WITHOUT MY PERMISSION" We used to have family and friends over a lot, and the guest bathroom is right by the garage door. So I had a lot of accountability help, every time someone went to the restroom, they would come back and ask us how it is working. And we would tell then it was working great. So it kept reminding us that this was something that works for us and we are happy with.

To this day you can fit two cars in the garage. Not that we park in there anyway, because it made oil spots when we tried that. But I'm so happy I will never have to clean out my garage again smile


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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