Vittoria,

Do you have your own thread? I read your posts on other peoples' and like so many others here, you're very generous with your advice and your support. I read about the trigger last weekend and some other things you're going through. I, of course, can only imagine and know that I am likely the last person to provide you with any valuable insight. But I do want you to know I'm wishing you only the very best. You have been direct and very kind to me. I should only hope to offer you a smidgen of the same.

Take care.

-L4

L4,

Is there absolutely NO way for you to go to Germany? This makes me nervous but at least it's only a week. Hope you're able to keep things UP, even when he's halfway around the world.

Congratulations on your new project. You deserve all the money they're willing to pay you.....maybe it will lead to more jobs just like it!


I was looking for (Hee hee heee Looking4) a recovery thread Vittoria started awhile back, too, but couldn't find one.

I started the first Trials and Smiles thread as my recovery venting thread. It got too long so I started the Smiles and Trials 2 thread, which RHW said was too long so I started Smiles & Trials 3 for anyone with challenges but did not want/have their own thread. Now that RHW suggested we use it for a Healthy Habit thread, there's no reason Mental Health issues (likes triggers and setbacks and lovebank depletions) should NOT be a part of a thread on Healthy Habits.

If you don't want to start your own thread, Vittoria, you're welcome to vent on the Smiles thread anytime.

Anyone is invited as well. It's an equal-opportunity thread!

Again, glad things are looking up, L4. Thanks for sharing.

Acey

Oh, how I wish, Ace. I've mentioned it and have tried every angle. It would be a lot of money that is in short supply right now, and our best option for watching our kids on such short notice -- in other words my folks -- is not possible because they're in Mexico. H will be gone 5 days so for me it'll be like other business trips he does.

It's too bad because we're apart now too. H and DS7 were able to get into the condo a day early for no additional charge so they left this afternoon. They'll be back Wednesday afternoon.

He'll have his computer both at the resort and while in Germany. So we'll have access to IM during the day and his mobile has international calling so we'll be able to stay in touch. This morning we took some nice couple time so we parted on a good note.

The first time H and I went to Europe together was last fall during a business trip of his. Many things were happening between us (for example me withholding my affair) and there was so much resentment and animosity... It ended up being horrible. Yesterday when I told H again that I wish I could go to Germany, he said, "Kind of like Amsterdam again?" I smiled knowingly and said, "There will never be another Amsterdam. I want to go with you on a another business trip to do it right some time. Maybe next time."

Thanks for stopping by. How is it that you're so kind, Ace?

Take care.

Last year at this time, I was with my family at our condo at a ski resort for 4 days. While there, I sent the FOM a couple of email’s from my H’s computer. As part of the PA purge last fall, H learned about this.

H IMed me tonight from our condo that he feels bad memories of the place. I responded that I’m sorry because I knew what he was talking about. There are also many great memories there. (Our DD took her first steps there, kids learned to ski there, and much more.) I wished I was there so we could make new memories. H stated that he wished I would have thought of all the good memories a year ago. He says he can clearly see me sitting with my back to the window with his laptop to make sure he couldn’t see what I was up to. I said that I was working and yes, I did email FOM too. H abruptly ended then. He typed, “I’m going to bed. Good night,” and left the IM.

It was hard there last year. I’ll go short on the details because they don’t matter now, but it was during that trip that I made what turned out to be my final attempts to get H to pay attention to me before diving into the EA. I know now that I was distracted by the FOM, but I pulled out a lot of stops back then that my H completely disregarded. I returned from our vacation feeling like it was okay for me to get closer to FOM because I believed H couldn’t care less for me. I falsely justified what I was doing based on that experience. We’ve talked ad nauseam about that vacation the last few months and its significance, and at the end of the day, my H’s recollection of several moments from then is very different from my recall.

Anyway… Any ideas about what I can do for my H while I’m at home and he is there? I feel badly that he’s apparently triggering and I can’t do anything. I also feel badly that this single image of me sitting on the couch is taking over 15 years of history that we otherwise have at that place.

Hi L4

I feel for you sat there puzzling. Would he appreciate a diary of your thoughts, wonderings, activities and emotions whilst he's away? Just so that he knows he's been apart of your life whilst he's been away.

Have a look through the ideas pages - there's loads there.

Let him know of something fun/nice you could do when he's back. DH and I both find looking forward together helps us by trigger moments.

ST

Saw where you posted to BBB about what I call trigger remorse {when a BS thinks (s)he wants to know but regrets it later}. This ski trip may be one of those but that's in the past now so the best thing you can do is focus on the here and now.

Can you call the resort restaurant and order their favorite meals/desserts to be delivered at a time you've confirmed they will be back at their room? That might be a fun new memory, a bit pricey but a good investment for that contract stipend you said you didn't think you deserved.

Do either of you have Skype? If not, maybe you can set that up (as long as you and FOM didn't Skype) and create new memories that way.

How 'bout sending an old fashioned telegram (do they still have those?) from a Western Union office. I didn't take time to google it but since we're brainstorming here, it's just another thought that might lead to another idea.

Do anything you can think of to reclaim that place and create new memories to overshadow the old triggers.



You might begin thinking about projects like discussed on the Smiles thread above. Hopefully his destination in Germany won't have triggers like the ski resort does, but your being apart will no doubt be a challenge for him.

It will be more difficult having him in Germany in some ways but the fact that he'll have business distractions will help a little. While he's at the ski resort, maybe you could provide surprise distractions that you could not do while he's in Germany.

Can you overnight a package of fun snacks they both like?

How about calling the concierge at the resort and seeing if you can pay by credit card for tokens in the resort game room or other entertainment source there.

If you set up Skype, that's something you'll be able to use while he's at the ski resort AND in Germany.

Just a few thoughts L4. Hope they help.


Is this a trick question? LOL (Don't wanna TJ your thread so email me if you really want to know!)

Ace

L4 & Acey,
You guys are sweet. Thank you for your concern. I don't have a recovery thread.
I guess b/c I don't see my sitch much different from others, and some seem to be rockier than mine. I have wondered about that lately though. I don't think I would know where to start.
L4, I would have to smack you silly if you didn't chime in.
Yes, Acey you really are the best. The smiles thread is such a good place to go and visit to not think about A business, and that's the way it should be.

Now back to you L4.
If your H is not a wreck at this condo, he is doing better than me. I can understand how he feels. He may have underestimated what affect that place would have on him and is only realizing it now. You will know if he feels he never wants to return, for now anyway, they say triggers fade.
L4, that trigger of mine that you read, totally unexpected and one of the most horrifying experiences I've had. I don't read on here men's experiences of triggers.
They may feel the same but express it differently, or they may not express it at all. I even had difficulty putting it out there.

What I can suggest is, sending him messages of 'I love you', many of them. Talk to him on a phone so he can hear your voice. If there is something that held a good memory, mention it to distract him from the bad ones he is feeling now. I'm brand spankin' new in this dept., all of them actually.

Staytogether, where is that thread of 'ideas'? It sounds like a good one.

Take care and thank you again.

Just read Acey's post, those are fabulous ideas.

Not everyone is a rock star like L4, posting her first thread here on the recovery forum when it probably should have been on GQII. But she was so intense, people sought out this thread to help her. If you haven't, read the first couple pages of this thread, V. If nothing else, it will show you how far L4 has come since D-Day.

Where to start a recovery thread..... Read Drgnflys.....or Lildoggie's or DNU1's.....or my first Trials & Smiles thread. You can pattern yours after theirs/ours or just start one. I already know what my first post would be on it. LOL


L4, I agree with Vittoria. I won't smack you (since I'm so kind!!!LOL) but if/when you have something to say, you should say it. Your comment that you "didn't want to intrude but wanted to play" on the Vacation thread prompted me to be conscious of inviting everyone often. That's the place for non-A talk...unless LC is there and we get serious just to yank her chain.


Not sure if you meant that the Vacation thread is the place to NOT think about A talk. On the Smiles thread we're talking about healthy habits, including mental health stuff directly or indirectly related to the A that affects our mental health, which in turn affects our physical health. Just wanted to clarify the purpose of both threads. But hey, it's a public forum and both threads invite TJ's so whatever comes, goes. It's allll guuuuuud!


I'm not ST but I'll tell you where it is. The Recreation forum is way below this Infidelity forum. The Fishing thread is also there, which, in my opinion is the most underappreciated thread on these forums. Mark started it at my request to help me overcome my triggers related to my H's contact with OW while he was fishing. (It's linked to Mark's sig line.)

At the time, I hated fishing but after learning MB concepts, I decided that I wanted to want to go with my H. Not only did Mark help me start to like fishing and go with my FWH every year, but he wrote what I call Marriage Masterpieces, which I've envisioned being edited into a little...... never mind, email me if you wanna know ......

Thanks for your kind comments, Vittoria.

Acey

L4,

This is a difficult one. It seems that you and your H do better over IM, no outbursts, DJ , etc... Maybe you can have some calm conversations while he is in Germany and learn something about where he is at and what he is feeling.

I am wondering if he has a better memory than you or vice versa. I have a ridiculously good memory and it is somewhat of a curse. When xWW and I were trying the recovery thing she denied many things and then was surprised that those exact things were in the letters when she let me read them. I don't think she was lying I think she just forgot, mostly because she forgets alot of things that I remember. I had to just realize that many of the things she did that were burned in my memory were forgotten by her and that it was not dishonesty on her part. It helped that I knew she had forgotten other things like the kids first words etc.

I think you may want to consider a different sky location in the future, and I would very much recommend against going to Amsterdam again - try a new location instead.

Best wishes

Gabe

We are on grand-baby count down now - it looks like the due date is March 25 and it may be early. Since I promised to be there for Sam and his GF at the birth I may disappear suddenly for a couple of weeks.

Thanks, staytogether. I know H likes to know when I'm thinking of him.

We took a lot of time saying good-bye yesterday -- embracing and waving so long and I'm certain we left on good terms. Based on his last words to me from the IM I shared yesterday, I'm picturing him sitting there getting more pissed about last year at this time.

I texted H this morning. DS7 called from H's cell phone after dinner and in the background H said he'd talk to me later. I called H at 10pm and he didn't pick up so I left a message. Thanks to your suggestion, I sent an email to H about the day that DD5 and I had. I've had Skype open all day. Still haven't heard from H. I'm hoping it's just because he's tired from skiing all day and he went to be early. But I admit that I am uncomfortable with the fact that he's out of reach and not responding to any of my attempts to contact him.

I hope he and I talk tomorrow.

What a fun idea. I don't know exactly what their plans are so hard to schedule. Plus among H's parting words were that we have pretty much every dollar accounted for this week until Friday so he might get upset if I spent money he hadn't budgetted for.

That's what we use. Neither of us have cameras though. I left it on all day and night. H didn't even log in.

You are creative.

Trying to. Wish he'd respond to me.

That's what I'm worried about. He's spending time alone, able to reflect on everything. When he's traveling in the states, it's easy to be on Skype and call because we're in similar time zones. When he's in Germany, it'll be hard with his work, client dinners, and time differences to hook up. We'll have to really work at it. I sent an email to H asking where he'll be staying because I'd like to send him a card. But I'll have to send it soon if it's going to make it.

If he'll let me.

The condo is a stand alone, meaning there is no concierge or office on site. Sending anything I'd have to do so through the club's main office in town. Might be more of an inconvenience for H than the pay-off offers. Wish I would have thought of this a week ago so I could have had something waiting for him upon check-in.



How do I get your email? Because I want to know. We can all learn from Ace.

You know me. You couldn't shut me up.

I don't think he even ever thought of it. If he did, he didn't allude to it at all. I did think of it a bit -- how I will feel logging onto a computer in that place. But I believe that when I go, I'll get over it because the 15 years of memories with my family and friends and playing with our kids there are far greater.

I don't know if my H expresses to me every time he triggers, but he does let me know when he does. He makes a snide comment and/or sad body language.

I hope I'm more successful getting through to him tomorrow.

Thanks, V.

Thank you for welcoming me on those other threads, Ace. They're fun and helpful. There are others however, where I read from afar. Sometimes I want to jump in and "correct" the generalizations, but that's playing with fire, I've learned, so I often stay out. I learned this one night when I was feeling fiesty. I responded to a couple of posts, stating my positions to show exceptions to accusations that were flying. Words came back on both of the threads and I bristled. I probably should have stepped back but I was in a mood and jumped in. (This is more like the real me... Ask anyone who knows me... I do not look for conflict, but I do not avoid it. I HATE injustice. Well, except when it's directed at me and then I tend to waiver.)

I quickly learned with a few posters in particular, that they are absolutely right and their experiences make them experts in my life, so it doesn't matter what I type because simply put, it will be time I never get back. These individuals live a life of absolutes where everyone or no one is always or never. I can't deal in that world. Hence, I'm more cautious about reacting to threads since then, especially when written by select individuals. If nothing more, I try to respect that at least they do not waffle in their positions.

Thanks for showing us where this is. I just ventured over there and even posted on ST's thread. I believe it was my first post outside of the Infidelity section. Is that progress?

That was sweet of him to start that because of you, Ace. I actually read it. I know NOTHING about fishing and understand about a quarter of what he writes, but because it's written by Mark, I read it.

Another thing I want to know.

You may be onto something here, 6YL.

I am you in my relationship. I have the better (albeit not perfect) memory. He uses my memory to help him find his keys or things he's misplaced because L4 has the "memory of an elephant". Yet when it comes to remembering a conversation or a fight, his memory is the correct one.

Specifically about last year's ski trip... I made 4 overt gestures toward my H for SF and/or any kind of affection. My H denied every one of them, in fact showing disgust when I climbed into the shower with him. (He couldn't have gotten out of there fast enough.) H remembers the trip as him having a really bad ear infection. This was true and he was indeed not well. My "however" though, is that he managed to go skiing 4 of the 6 days he was there, including skiing black diamond runs on the world-renown slopes. So H wasn't so sick to prevent him from skiing 6 - 8 hours a day, but he was too sick to snuggle with his naked wife who was lying next to him at night or napping with him in the afternoon. I didn't need SF, but I needed something. The resort has always provided moments of intimacy in the past so I thought it would be easy. But I got zip from H.

H reflects now and says I was more interested at the time in FOM and I didn't want H anyway -- that I was faking it. Funny, that H didn't say anything about my disinterest then or ever ask if I was okay. My thought is if he did think I was not interested in H, why didn't he worry about it? Why didn't he try to do something about it? I don't believe he did sense anything and it's only because he knows now that I had one-foot in an EA at the time that his recall has changed.

What I remember is that I was desparately trying to get H's attention, because there was another man out there who was willing to give it to me and it scared me. While H (unfairly) didn't know it, for me the trip was a test for us and we failed it miserably. And that became my ridiculous excuse to continue forward with the train wreck.

(And yes, that was the short, Reader's Digest version.)

We'll consider it, but this resort is a place where we have three weeks a year and so we go in winter and in the summer. My folks had a condo there too so it's something my family has been doing for a long time and the kids love it there. But we will give it up if we have to. In fact, we've been half-heartedly selling it for a year now. Maybe H will put more effort into it after this week.

Congratulations! That's wonderful that you get to be there.

And FWIW, 6YL... I understood what you were saying on jgirl's thread about where you think a BS should focus his/her anger. I didn't want to jump in since I'm a FWW, not a BS. But my H agrees with you. Sure, if FOM walked in the door those first couple of weeks, H might have taken a swing at FOM. But as much as H wanted to take it all out on the FOM, my H says FOM doesn't deserve it. H doesn't want to be FOM's buddy, but since FOM didn't assault me, H can't fault him. He believes FOM took advantage of me and has called him a predator, but knows there would be no reason to hate FOM if I didn't allow it all to happen. Anyway, I didn't say this there because I felt the thread was getting way jacked up. But I saw what you were saying.

Amazing, L4. That's the answer! I'm perceived to be kind by you and a few others....I really don't post much anymore so very few know me, which is fine with me. Why? Because I'm just being myself and if that means you (and a few others) can learn from me, then that's why I'm kind. I'm glad if I've help you.

Thanks,
Ace

H and DS7 are home. Yay!

Monday, Tuesday, even this morning, H and I did a lot of chatting via IM so that was good. I kept it on all day every day so I was constantly accessible. No big conversations (though he had interesting comments about The Bachelor finale that I'll share on The Bachelor thread), but mainly just kept in touch. My panic from Saturday and Sunday has subsided. I won't be surprised if he tells me he was uncomfortable at times, but perhaps the new memories with DS7 are fresher and are more of a focus now than last year?... I hope so.

I have some thoughts about things I've been reading on MB that will probably bore the ba-jeebiz out of you so I will wait and decide later whether or not to post. I've been pretty fiesty lately and find I'm having less tolerance for ridiculousness, injustice, and unfairness. Usually I can let it go, but lately I want to take it on. Not sure if that's good or bad.

Mark -- if you're reading, thank you for your addition to your "Troubleshooting and Repair Manual". I didn't reply there because I didn't want to muck-up the flow of that thread. Your analogy was great. And while I can understand the thrill of that profession, I'm glad you gave it up.

Ace -- I'll be in touch. ;-)

Anyway. Just wanted to squeal about H being home. I've printed a recipe for Mizithra Browned Butter Pasta and gotta go give it a try now.

Cheers!

I was just thinking of how things were going with you. I figured 'no posts meant good posts'.

Glad to hear you are doing okay.

Thanks L4,

I'm making amends with people I wronged, I wish Mike would come back but his thread disappeared anyway.

I'm glad you and BH are moving forward even if the progress is slow. From your posts it seems like you are much happier these days, I'm happy for you.

I'm nervous about the baby (you would think after 5 of my own I would be calm) and mad at my little brother, so my life has alot of turmoil. Thank goodness the economy hasn't touched my practice, so at least that part is easy.

Hey L4:

LG here.

Thought you were off the hook?

Nah....

My time is short. And you have come along way. Your Recovery is going along nicely. A little more thrown in by your H would help, but that will come.


YOur description of Last Years trip to the Condo? How you wanted to BE with your H and he rejected you?

And it was HIS FAULT.

Sorry. Your being foggy again.

Yes, your EA was developing and you WANTED your BS to sweep you off your feet and away from the OM>>>> But you had been pushing your H away for years. Your H KNEW that.

Your OM Awakened in you your DESIRE. And since OM was far away and you were with H, you wanted his affection. He didn't KNOW where this L4 was coming from. Not the one he knew about for several years, pushing him away. And suddenly THIS.

Yes, he KNEW something was up.

This sentence says it best:

He DID know something was different. He was looking at a puzzle with 200 pieces, no box top and half the pieces where the same shape and without color.

THan he found out about the EA/PA.

Suddenly, he had the box top. And the pieces NOW had color.

You BET that his recall changed.

And then this:

Of course it was a test. And somebody wasn't informed of that. But he was graded, and found to fail, so therefore. of to PA land we went. So HE didn't fail the test, YOU did.

Can you SEE that now?

Clear the FOG. Your "TESTS" would have resulted in failure for your BS because NONE of the tests he was aware of, and you set them up so that he WOULD fail. Had he ravished you in the shower, he failure would have been for "another test" that you would have concocted.

It's what we do, us wayward folk. You want the BS to "Fail" at whatever test you can dream up. Because then its "thier fault"
and you have justification to do whatever you want.

Reread that post again. And thru the filter I just gave you.

Realize that you "failed". Just like I DID.

Your BS was operating with less than 10% of the facts that you had. Kind of tough to pass a test with that, huh?

Enough about that.

L4: You have been mentioning that you want to get a little fiesty. Go ahead. Put in your POV. You may, *Ahem* get blasted. That's ok. You will learn the MB way. There are some folks here with some *absolutes* That's ok. I don't debate them either. Really no point, as you have observed. I like 6YL. I think he had some valid points. But it spun out of control. BTDT. I have been at the center of the s#!t storm in the past around here too. You can learn from it.

Enjoy the rest of the week!

LG