Need help here. Specially from former WWs. We are currently recovering from the devasting affair my wife ended several months ago. There is complete NC. She is very remorseful, shameful about what she did and is slowly but steadily coming out of the fog.

We are doing lot of things that we never did before. Communicating on daily basis. Talking about things that we never did before.

All love busters are pretty much out. In other words, we are actually making decent progress. We both are also trying to meet our emotional needs even though the progress is slow.

I know my wife is still emotionally detached from me at this point and i know for women that is so important to connect emotionally first. (what the heck, even for me that is important but that is secondary at this point).

Questions

1) how long does it take before she can feel anything for me ? Another 3 months, 6 months ?
2) what can i do in the meantime ? I guess i am very frustrated at times knowing that i should not be the one chasing here given the blunders she committed but then life is not fair, is it ?

It hurts me as much to post this....having to ask for suggestions from others...never thought i would have to do something like this but then i also believe that it is ok to reach out and ask for help every once in a while... I see lot of knowledge here and would love to hear from former WWs or BHs who went through this before. Thanks and truley appreciate your time/feedback.

optin,

I am not a WW nor a WH...nor do I play one on TV.

You are 3 months out from Dday, correct? A blink of the eye, time wise, on our rollercoaster.

Your wife is probably still in withdrawal from the OM and feeling as low as whale barf on the bottom of the ocean. Low, because of the self loathing, shame and guilt she is (and should) be feeling.

You need to be her rock and safe haven in her storm of anguish.

The self loathing is blocking the connecting emotionally. In her own way, right now, she is connecting emotionally. The emotional enthusiasm you are looking for is not there. Hopefully it will come back.

This recovering is a marathon, not a sprint. It is a slow process. Nothing is easy in this. Stay patient, smile, and keep doing what you are doing per your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs.

MAKE SURE NC IS NOT BROKEN!! You say complete NC, but always trust, yet confirm. Keep the snooping scope going.

""It hurts me as much to post this....having to ask for suggestions from others""

Why should it hurt so much to post this?

Who are you, superman?

Could this be why your wife is emotionally detached? Was she long before the A?

kirk

thanks kirk for your response. Kinda expected that but always helps to hear from the wise ones. Yes it has been around 3 months and here i am getting desparate already ! lol. Sorry, thanks for the reminder that this could take more than 2 years and that this is a marathon. I guess i needed that gentle smack in my head.

nope not a superman but i always believed in giving and helping others out. Now i am in the situation that i have never been in. Asking, hoping, frustrated, impatient..Feel fairly disgusted when i feel that way..But none is this coming across for my wife to see.


yes she did check herself out of the marriage long before. Isnt that what most women do before they have an affair ? Think that their marriage is over and out ?

optin,

""yes she did check herself out of the marriage long before.""

Have you explored why she checked out? And are you remedying this so it will not happen again?

Any marriage counseling going on?

kirk

Optin, you are so early in the process. I know how you feel - as a type A personality I wanted to create a road map with specific goals, measures, and milestones. Shame it doesn't work that way.

Before focusing on your M, I am curious - what do you feel? I went through several overlapping stages - denial, desperation, anger, bitterness, remorse, indifference, etc. Those feelings, or stages of grief, were all over the board for quite some time.

My W no longer cared for me because of her addiction to the OM. Once the A was over, I had one big advantage - even though she did not love me, she wanted our M to work. She recognized that it would be best for everyone if we could rebuild and improve on our M. She was willing to push herself out of her comfort zone to regain closeness with me.

What is your W's commitment level at this point? What does she want? What does she feel? Are you sure there is NC? How did the A end?

On my thread, I mentioned you should try to focus on improving yourself. A key thing for me was to channel my unmet desires into affection for my kids. I am a better father and this was one of the first things my W noticed.

Stay the course and give this time. The past cannot be fixed overnight.

- Sh0cked

optin: You already have some great advice posted here. I'll throw in just a little from my perspective.

Yes, 3 months past DDay is short time. Every WS handles withdrawal and NC differently. Is your WW seeing counselor? Are you both in marriag counseling? Have you spoken to Harley's?

Being patient is something I had hard time doing...i wanted to "fix-it!" and fast! But that's not what my WW needed. She needed time to withdrawal from the OM and get her head straight. Remember, the OM ended the A back Thanksgiving and i was instinctively doing Plan A since first of November. So although DDAy wasn't until end of December, I was unknowingly doing Harley principles way before that.

This is VERY hard stuff for the WH to process and work through. Your wife will probably be distant and not emotionally connected for a while. Keep taking care of yourself and improving yourself.

Hopefully she has filled out the ENQ (and you too) and shared with you. Keep being the *giver* and meeting her ENs as best you can. She will come around.

Unfortunately this is Affair #2 for my wife. I can honestly say after A#1 we grew incredibly close as a couple. I can see lots of progress now after this affair. And the counseling has helped a ton this time around. Yes, it's not Harley's, but I can see it's helping.

Be patient, be strong and work on you and your family. Your wife will come out of this fog/withdrawal and you will see progress. Takes time.

Learning it. I thought i could do it but no, just does not work that way.


S, my feelings you mean right now ? lol. (sorry i am trying to humour myself)

ok, the grieving is all gone. for most part. I never thought a man could cry so much. Bitterness. No, actually was never bitter with my wife or angry with her. You know why ? I realised this was her biggest blunder of her life. She actually needed help. Once she started talking to the OM, there was no turning back for her. She could not get out even if she wanted to.

Denial...Lasted first few days
Remorse or guilt....Yes lasted for a good two months
Indifference.... Not one bit. I actually am a better person now. I know I still have a long way to go. I am all pumped up even after 5 months.
Frustration....Yes big time. Frustrating that wife does not want to keep up with me. Hello ? Who had the f* affair here ? (you know what i mean)


I have moments of anger that I really need to keep in check and not take it on anyone. This is more recent development. Hopefully it wont last for long.



In stuck in this stage right now. Struggling to connect with my wife on emotional level. I know it takes time. Is very frustrating.


Commitment from her...She is willing to give it a shot. She is trying. That's all I can ask right ?

Yes positive - NC still in place. The affair ended because I asked her to. Immediately after that she is going through text-book withdrawl. She is utterly remorseful, disgusted with herself. How she hurt me. She thinks she is not worthy loving anymore. I dont think she is completely de-fogged yet. She still thinks about OM. Says feelings are not that intense though.


You got to be kidding me. That is EXACTLY what i did. In 3 months after the d-day she actually came to me saying "looks like you have won your son over to your side"....I was proud of myself. She now admits I am a good husband.

DNU. thanks. Actually it will be close to 5 months soon. WW went through IC. That helped her a lot. But you are right. She checked herself out of the marriage well before she had the affair. I expect the withdrawl to continue for for several more months.


Patience is not my virtue...and one who believes in setting goals/targets and going after them full throttle, you can understand my frustration even more. I need to work on this.



Yep. Done that a month after d-day. Our plan is go through them every 2 months and see how much progress we are making in meeting our needs. At this point, she admits, she cannot meet all my needs..I am big on affection. But other needs such as SF, though awkward in the beginning, we are improving. You are correct, I see myself more as a giver.



So, if you dont mind me asking, how did the affair # 2 happen ? You think you didnt rip the first one apart completely to understand what went wrong ?

Optin1, it sounds like you have a lot going for you. Since the POSOM is out of the picture, your M has a chance. Be forewarned, however, WWs often feel a need for "closure" . My then WW got a call from the OM looking for a piece of a$$. Fortunately, she had come out of the fog enough to tell him off. I asked that she change her cell number that very day. She gladly obliged.

MC really helped us out because it helped to identify the rift that made the M vulnerable in the first place. If you are not in counseling, you should try it. MC was very painful as I was often portrayed at the villain but it helped my W come out of her shell and therefore more comfortable being with me.

Optin1, try and spend at least 15 hours per week together. It sucks to "date" your wife but think of it like starting all over. Do not pressure her - no relationship talks, excessive ILYs, etc. Just have fun.

There are many BS's that would give anything to be in your shoes. Keep trying to fulfill her needs, work on yourself, and spend time together.

- Sh0cked

DNU1...

I greatly admire you on how you are handling things in your situation. I don't think I could deal with a 2nd affair.

Personally, I've never experienced the depth of emotion and pain that I went through with my wife's rejection of me.

So to the original poster in this thread... any help you can get for yourself, it's all good. Many of us are early in the recovery process... I feel that in my marriage, we are still in the process of regaining some of the balance that there was before... the good aspects of course.

I still think about the affair everyday... but I'm noticing that I'm feeling differently about it. I'm more in control of my own emotions. Of course, there are good days and bad days. Hopefully the situation will continue to improve.

Sh0cked, yes my wife's affair in a way is lot different. Well, correction. I think the way I am handling it is a little different. I thought I had the worst case scenario when I found out but I took control of the situation fairly quickly. I think my wife saw that. Yes, I was a emotional wreck for several months but not once did my desire for the marraige wane in any shape or manner. (to your point earlier...I was never indifferent)

Plus the boundaries were clearly set in place. About POSOM contacting my wife again, very unlikely but if he does then yes I do have something up my sleeve...(all legal ofcourse!)



My hope is she comes out of the fog completely first before we seek C. I a big believer in the weekend marriage builder program. May go for it.



Great advice. I needed that. I really need to cut down on the realtionship talk. Just talk about anything instead which we also do. You are right. But it is SO difficult not to ask the following

1) How are you feeling today ?
2) Where do you see our relationship going 3 months from now ?
3) How did your feelings change from the d-day ?

I feel like asking these questions when I am emotionally beat up. Trust me I will get there. It is just so hard.

You are correct. Sometimes I feel...Hmmm it is not that bad after all. It does look like my marriage can be salvaged.

Question...

I know you said wife was remorseful but was there a moment during recovery, may be a "de-fogged" moment, when she completely broke down and was horrified about what she had done to you and your kids ? (different from the 100 apoligies you may have received from her earlier).

Nope. Not once. She seems to have come to terms with her actions perhaps quicker than I would have liked. I even got the, "I have forgiven myself and God has forgiven me - why won't you," speech. Oh sure, there have been times she got misty but that was more during one of my triggers - she was sorry for hurting me. There is still some self-serving justifications and lack of understanding as to why I still "haven't moved on". Does it matter? Not too much, IMHO. The "you are the center of my universe," and "I couldn't imagine my life without you," speeches mean so much more.

Well, I tried but she left and moved-in with her mother. She refused to stop seeing the OM.

The 15 hours per week is really important. I used to write myself sticky notes to remind me how to behave. No R talks, no A talks, no long-term plans, etc. I know it is tough but you gotta do it. Like I said before, you are literally dating. Keep it light-hearted.

Remember - what woman wants a clingy and needy man in her life? None that I know. Appear confident and self-assured even though your gut is wrenching. Who knows - pretend often enough and you just might feel that way more often.

Your W can enhance your life but you do not need her. Try and remember that one too.

- Sh0cked

I got a lot of "I cannot believe you want to reconcile with me after what I had done to you". That's not her but her fog speaking in my opinion. But then she is so ashamed of what she has done she cannot come to terms with what she has done.

My reaction is....(I keep it to myself)....Let's see. We have been married for more than 10 years. We have a lovely son. We have great memories together. Our marriage wasnt as bad as you thought it was. We planned our future together. We bought a beautiful home together. Our future looks great. And now you say what ???? Move on on my own ? Boy, sure would have helped if I had known this when I got married.

I will take those anyday. Or speeches that acknowledge the positive side of me. How I helped her to stand her on own feet. How much I believed in her.

In her defense though communication is not my wife's forte. But sometimes I wonder if it is more than communication that could be preventing her from expressing her feelings.

How i hope you are right. I am going to try. I need lot of will power and inner strength (what left of it) to do this.

You need to let her know this. Sounds to me like she needs reassurances too. Remember, you are supposed to be making deposits into her love bank at every opportunity.

Yes, it does, but if you want your M to work, you have to fight for it. Recovery is not for the faint of heart.

One thing my IC had me do (after my W left me) was to come up with 10 behaviors I would change if she ever came back. I still refer to the list now and then.

Optin1, it important that your W takes responsibility for the A. It is equally important that you recognize your contribution to the state of the M pre-A. What can you improve on? Have you changed those old habits?

Yes she does need assurances. Her top EN is Admiration. I am working on it. I had 2 occasions in the past two months where I absolutely floored her with surprises. Our anniversary and valentine's day. It was done in a subtle yet effective manner. She was overwhelmed.


She has taken complete responsibility. Yep, i do recongnize my part in the bad marriage prior to A.

Some of things I have done.

All Love Busters are completely out starting d-day on. So about 5 months now.

My behavior with my son has changed overnight. He is much more close to me now - emotionally speaking as well.

Appreciate my wife and what I have in life.

Taken up new hobbies. Doing very well actually.

Reading alteast 5 books a month.

Connecting with old friends.

Some things I can work on

Stil being a bit clingy to my wife.

Still obsess a bit about the affair and at times it spills out. Not a good idea I think.

Question I have for you....Do you think at this point MC will help at all ? To me, it seems like we continue to do what we are doing and can only hope it gets better everyday. Like you said, doing things together. Spending the time together. At this point, I think we are making progress but the changes are so small that we not able to notice it. Who knows six months from now we can look back and say, "we did come a long way".

Actually if I look back the last 5 months...I think we have come a long way. Initially, I wanted to fight for the marriage more out of desparation and you know that feeling cannot last for long. I am not desparate anymore. But I still know I want this to work. Even after 5 months. All this despite the fact that my wife has virtually stopped making love deposits. But then that was the case prior to the A too. If anything she is alteast trying now. So I see some changes there.

Besides, I think I have changed. I am a better person now. Initially I thought my behavioural changes were ephemeral but I still have the same motivation as I did 5 months ago. To me that is a good sign. I think my wife started to see that. That my changes could be permanent indeed - though it is too early to tell she is convinced.

I think MC helps as long as you have a good psychologist. If you can get your W to open-up and discuss her feelings to an independent 3rd party, it may help her deal with the guilt and how she became susceptible to the "charms" of the POSOM. It may also help you realize some of your shortcomings and allow you to make corrections and thus deposit more units in her LB.


Bingo! Progress cannot be measured in days. It takes weeks or months.