Am about to expose WW who is a serial cheater - may blow up and wondering if this is even salvageable...

Chronological Background: We’ve been married 31 years and dated for 3 years in college. She admitted six months into our dating that she had cheated on me with an ex- boyfriend. When I told her we were done, she went off the deep-end, literally rocking in a corner and whimpering for hours. So I forgave her and wiped it from my mind.

We married shortly after graduation. She had traveled extensively for business, worked crazy hours etc., but never did I ever doubt her. Even when my friends would ask if her traveling ever gave me concern, I just dismissed them as dated chauvinists…till I was at a business meeting about 15 years ago and an acquaintance of her ex-business partner made a drunken salacious inference. It was like the penny-dropped. When I got home, I took her out to dinner and asked if she had had an affair with her ex-business partner, she smiled weakly and said maybe. Over the course of the next 8 hours, I came to find out she had an 8-year affair with the guy, starting less than two years into our marriage. In addition, she reluctantly admitted to having had sex with several clients and with her boss at the temp job she was doing 1 month before our wedding.

Over the ensuing very stormy weeks as I tried to piece together this alternate reality, the story changed and we settled into a perverse game of cat & mouse, a nasty variant of trickle-truth. Complete disclosure: I had 3 drunken ONS during these first 14 years which I was totally transparent about and more than contrite. I gave up the booze and been free and clear since.

We embarked on MC with an ill equipped church affiliated psychologist who pressured me into not pursuing the truth any further because he felt: a) her transgressions were before she was baptized and therefore she was no longer accountable for her ‘old-self’ and b) because he believed she had ‘split’ and those memories were too difficult for her to access c) we had both done wrong so let’s just foggadaboutit. I was totally frustrated because the issue wasn’t the wrongs of the past, it was the sincerity of the present. I felt I was being played and she was using God to cover her tracks. There was no genuine remorse and she successfully manipulated the MC discussions into how my actions contributed to her adultery.

I tried everything to slough off the increasing frustration and rage. I bought and read every book on adultery and relationships (easily over thirty books), but still could not understand why I just couldn’t get the truth (it wasn’t till years later when I read ‘Joseph’s letter’ that I found a kindred-soul and some answers).

This righteous indignation coupled with the tension of reconciling the tenets of my faith, the needs of my children and my gut instinct to bail - proved too much and triggered a novel experience - a deep debilitating depression. A depression, I have never escaped from (refractory or soft-bipolar are the most common explanations).

Now here’s a bit of irony. As my depression became a permanent fixture, it became the rationale for her straying again. Three years ago, when I first started to suspect she was up to her old habits I started checking her email and ims. The early warning signals were there, complaints to family and girlfriends about how I wasn’t my old self and she was tired of supporting the family. Equal commiseration from her family about what a burden she bore. I confronted her over a number of suspect, albeit circumstantial items. She was arranging travel, dinners and lunches with a 70-year old cretin who fancied himself quite the lothario. Perhaps no PA but definitely well into EA and clearly riding the Daddy Warbucks express. Through all her many divorced school mates she re-established contact with an early (1st?) boyfriend and had several get-togethers. No PA I could prove conclusively. Upon confrontation she went mole with PW on everything along with the attendant huffing about invasion of her privacy. Her new line was that the earlier trickle-truth saga had been abusive and she wasn’t going to put up with that type of abusive questioning again – meaning no data whatsoever. She also claimed that my conclusions were wild conjectures or misreadings because I’m incorrectly translating msgs (Spanish) and the real problem is that my depression has fuzzed my thinking. Thereafter things appeared calm…storm imminent.


A few weeks before Christmas I drove my wife’s car and found a number of receipts that were disturbing. She had gone to a convention in Orlando the prior week-end but was unreachable (a rarity) and calls were deleted from the phone log. The receipts I found were for some trashy lingerie and a gas fill-up far from where she was supposed to have been. Too much….I dashed off a heated letter detailing the findings and told her sayonara, I want a divorce. She denied any wrong doing of course, but agreed to my demand for a divorce. She did request that I continue with the holiday plans to visit her family in South America for the children’s sake (two wonderful 20-something daughters). We actually had a fairly pleasant time and upon returning and talking about the finality of divorce, both felt there was a great deal of love left and agreed to rebuild our remarriage.

Still much did not sit right. She continued to deny everything and the rebuilding effort was principally my onus. She left within the month for a graduation cruise with my youngest daughter and her sisters & mother (both sisters currently in adulterous relationships and one even brought along her bf surruptiously). While she was away the mouse played and I did some serious detective work. I discovered email love notes, hotel confirmation for the December week-end and allusions to their sleepless nights upon first meeting-up at a convention in Las vegas in October. I had also started recording her conversations in the car and in her home office. Long distance contact has continued even after we agreed to rebuild our marriage. I wanted to wait till I had enough incontrovertible data.

Last week-end I confronted her and she continued to deny it. Timing was vital as she left this week for another trade show where I knew she and the OP would rendez-vous. I read her back some of her correspondence (but not the most damning as it would reveal the sourcing) and she acknowledged that they were a bit more than friends but nothing I should worry about as we were now on our way back to “being one” again. She refused to write or call the OP with an NC position as she claimed that their two companies were in critical negotiations and it would be career suicide. She went to great pains to assure me that I had nothing to worry about. I do.

I elected not to spill the most damning data because I suspected she wouldn’t do the NC and would spin it in advance of an exposure campaign.


So now I am at that point, they are likely together. I will be telling my daughters over the next two days, concurrently I have letters to her family, the OP’s employer and an organization he sits on the board of. I may also do a brief ‘friends edition’ to make sure the bases are covered. I know the exposure is high-risk and she may elect to just leave.

Questions:

1. How much data should I give to in-laws. Her family’s perception of her is the most important issue in her mind. They will obviously side with her and a number of them have been her enablers or prodded her back into infidelity. The letter I have drafted is slanted towards how they are enabling an addict.

2. I’ve resolved to put all the cards on the table with my daughters, without of course trashing their mother, any disagreements?

3. Can this marriage realistically be saved? I know I still love her immensely and will do everything in my power to save it. Despite her clear narcissism, I do believe she loves me. I would like to believe that with the right approach (a la MB), accompanied by sincere remorse & commitment we could make it. I don’t think this OP is her soul mate.

On the other hand….Our lives over the last 10 years have been pretty miserable. Living with a depressed husband who is not working and unlikely to make the big bucks he used to is no picnic. She is a serial cheater of epic proportions, much of it seems to stem from anger towards me, some is attention, some may be thrill. Her family buys into her woe-me act and have been pushing/assisting her into finding a new hubby/lover. Her two closest sisters are both in adulterous situations and are clearly toxic to our marriage. Finally, I’m not sure that I can trust her again….

OMG!

1. ALL

2. Don't trash her. But tell them everything. And tell them that this is why you have been depressed half their lives.

3. No. But it didn't stop you from staying married to her for 31 years.

There is no changing her. She is a sociopathic nympho maniac. The question is, do you want to live like this for the rest of your life?

What I don't understand is that you would not reveeal the big evidence because she would know the source.

You never reveal your source. Let her guess the source. Just reveal the facts.

So instead of confronting WW with the truth so she stays home. You wuss out so she can go and bang the OM. That make total sense.

Yes expose the WW's parents and siblings. Do not forget to tell the OMW's.

The get DNA paternity tests done. WW has been cheating on you since she first knew you. This is a must.

WW's never use protection during and affair. They don't have to worry about getting pregnant.

You know, this can be saved, but only if she is willing to make a dramatic lifestyle change. You can't make her change, though. That means, no more traveling apart... EVER. No more nights apart EVER. Complete and total transparency of cell phone records, voicemails, etc. GPS and keyloggers.

She has been able to have affairs for years by leading a secret second life. And she is trained to believe a) she can get away with it, and b) you will do nothing to stop her. So far she has been right.

I do agree with your strategy to expose her and I will tell you why. I think she needs desperately needs to see herself through the eyes of others. This may be a huge wake up call for her. Others need to know so they can also watch her.

After the dust settles from this, I would present a plan of recovery to her. If she agrees, then your marriage has a chance, if not, then this is hopeless. That proposal must look something like this:

Dr. Harley from Requirements for Recovery - excerpts:

The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.


The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place.

entire article here

Give her an opportunity to prove herself to you. If she won't or doesn't or can't, then there is nothing you can do except move on. You can't make her change, only she can do so.

Depression would seem to be the natural reaction of abuse and inaction to abuse. When you have been abused for so many years and don't do anything effective to stop it, you would grow to feel helpless and angry. I would be depressed too.

hmmm, didn't you post here years ago about another affair? Your story sounds very familiar...

OldSong


I would tell them all of it.


My WH told our 20 something sons about what he had done and I later told them the rest when he finally came totally clean (I hope). They handled it as well as can be expected. They understood, they have been very supportive of me and helpful. They still love their dad and now they understand a few things about how we worked together, or not, while they were in our home. I think at this age they do very well, at least in our experience, and will be very supportive of you while still loving their mother.


If you feel this way then anything is possible. My situation is a bit like yours, a marriage long, serial cheating spouse. We are 5 months out and things are beginning to look up for us more than I thought would ever be possible. It will depend on your WW. My WH was immediately remorseful when it all came out. You will need that remorse. It may not come all at once and it might not come at all. If you want to save it, and it sounds like you do, then go for it and follow all the things you read here and take the advice to heart even when it hurts. I would never have made it this far without this forum. Can you make a phone appointment with Steve Harley? He is wonderful and you will find that there are many things that you can do for you while you wait for her to come along. My WH posts here and that was one sad thing while he got his chops busted for all the BS that he was putting out here. It was a HUGE help to us both.

Good luck. Keep posting and read everything on this site. Take all the advice, even the advice that is not what you want to hear, and weigh it and use it. You can get through this in good shape no matter how things eventually turn out.

Was the ex-boyfriend a married man?

TR:
Chance she would have stayed home 1%, b/c she had many mtgs. set-up that were bonafide and would have raised alarms had she withdrawn. The data is sufficiently compelling to assure doubters that she is not the virgin-queen upon exposure. She is a very deft manipulator and can lie with no "tells". I didn't want to give her a chance to pre-spin.

Paternity is a definite question in one case. The Trickle-truth train some years ago revolved around this issue as going back thru old passports revealed I was traveling extensively. I elected to forego at the time, cause I wasn't sure I could handle a negative result - my girls were/are my life. Should they ask after exposure I will give them the straight facts.

Melody:
I was hoping you would comment, in my lurking over the last few weeks I noted your sage advice particularly re: exposure.

This would mean the end of her job and sole means of family income at present...doable but tough any reassignment would be to Co. HQ in S.America (bad, bad idea this is where old school chums led her astray and prompted earlier reuniting with old boyfriend). Her family (remember it's a large family biz) would love to have her back down there sans your truly. Her staying up here after college has always frosted them - very incestuous clan, think mafia (figuratively).



She was schooled in secrets, father was very strict autocrat, mother was the enabler/confidant that helped the daughters hide boyfriends, skirt lengths, bathing suits etc. The fruits of her labor is evidenced in that 3 of 4 daughters are currently in adulterous relationships, the 4th was a 'player' some years ago.

I have done much to stop her short of divorce or throwing her out and changing the locks. The more oversight I tried the more she went subterranean. Its like a game to her, perhaps familiar? (see preceding para). The first 15 years I was clueless and totally trusting - hey we were soul mates, she was the love of my life (as I said I wiped the college incident from my mind). That is why that initial revelation in 92 was so personally devastating. In recent years as the warning signs reappeared I was burned-out and the power dynamics with her as sole bread-winner was always a sub-text of our conflicts.

Do you mind if I ask why you aren't working?

Mel:

I think your right about:

While her family's opinion is paramount, I think she is very fearful of our daughters' reaction. When we were earnest about divorce she kept emphasizing 'civility' for the children's sake and kept insisting we tell them together and that it was "just that we had grown apart". I said nix to that the kids were going to get the straight skinny and I would talk to them separately. Disturbingly in one voice recording with a friend, she was pleased in talking about marriages with our daughter (who accompanied her on the cruise) that she seemed non-plused by affairs. I suspect she is trying to sow seeds of acceptance.

She is afraid the world will see her as a tramp rather than the tragic figure who has suffered life's hardships by having a depressed husband and she has to work instead of lolling around the club. Her view is one of entitlement because of her 'sufferings'.

Nope don't think so. I did post on another site in December when I first found out, but most responses were bitter/angry ...kick her to the curb stuff. I could have had a mental soliloquy if I wanted that input. Too depressing if I may say...

Sadly, most of our stories do share much in common.

For reasons mentioned previously (image, perception etc.) my exposure campaign may likely blow the marriage out of the water. WW may feel since everything is out, she has nothing to fear which could be her only restraint on staying. That said, it's a gamble whose time has come and I will have to live with consequences. The letters to the OM's employer and trade organization he is on the board of follow Brit/Brat's template:



The one that I could use some input on is the one to her family. Remember they are key influencers in her life and two of them are presently cheating:

OldSong, unless you find a way to avoid EVER spending the night apart, even if that means that you travel with her, then there is no future here. The conditions that made her affairs possible have to be changed. Period.

Brits exposure letter is good to go.

Inlaws letter is too long, needed to be more to the point. Not the time to educate inlaws about affairs.

Dear Inlaws

WW is having another affair of the many she has had.

WW and I are trying to rebuild our marriage.

W's first affair occurred in college and I readily forgave WW. We were engaged and I thought she was truly remorseful. About fifteen years ago I was in the embarrassing situation to be told by a client at a business meeting that my wife was unfaithful. It came out that WW had been unfaithful with perhaps 10 men starting with her boss shortly before we were married and continued through the early years of our marriage to include bosses, clients and others. Many were one night stands, one however went on for seven years.

A couple of years ago I saw the warning signs again and confronted WW about the relationship she was having with an old lothario OP A. She claimed they were ‘just friends’. A bit of detective work showed that they arranged travel together – get-togethers at hotels , dinners and frequent lunches.

I doubt any of you would find such practices acceptable from your spouses. After confronting her I thought she had changed, but discovered it had led her to become much more secretive. Thereafter, she began enlisting the help of some ‘old friends’ of very poor reputation and through L. & C. got back with an old boyfriend OP B. They would even provide alibis in ‘foreign city’ so others wouldn’t know who she was with. Again we talked, she claimed I was imagining things.

I stupidly believed she would desist. Just before Christmas I discovered information that showed that instead of being at a trade show, WW was off with another vendor named OP C ‘from xyz co.’ for a romantic weekend. Apparently, this one started recently at another trade show in Las Vegas. And I’m sure there are others I don’t know about.

This time, I had enough and asked for a divorce, which we planned to do after the holidays. Instead, when confronted with the reality, we realized there was still a great deal of love and have decided to rebuild our marriage. We both have issues on our respective sides of the ledger and a rough and long road before us.

The buying-in to the tale and outright enabling (as with L. & C.) only allows the addict to continue. Enabling and encouraging WW in this highly destructive behavior benefits no one – not me, not the girls and not her.

You know first hand the horrible impact that infidelity can have on a family. It is a toxin that poisons not just the immediate relationship, but those of the children as well. Given that you have witnessed the damage done, please be more sensitive to our needs and help us in trying to rebuild our marriage.

Thanks.

OldSong


Get these out soon as possible.

This needs to be cut back to about THREE short paragraphs. Don't you even send out this gothic romance novel. This is about her adultery and ONLY her adultery. All of this added stuff is a superfluous distraction that makes you appear unstable.

Be straightforward, to the point and just give them FACTS. ABOUT HER AFFAIR[S} and ask for the advice and support.

Dear Family,

It is with great regret that I write this letter to ask for your advice in a situation that threatens our marriage of 32 years. We could greatly use any advice or influence you would be willing to the bring to the situation.

Sally has been having an adulterous affair with JoeScum for 6 months. He is a married coworker who works in the Scumbag Division out of Atlanta. I have collected evidence of her adultery and can gladly provide that. This is not her first affair, but one of many over the years. This has been a way of life for Sally, and I am now convinced I have done her no favors by keeping this secret over the years. I will no longer do so.

It is my goal to save my marriage of 32 years. I love Sally with all my heart and soul and so do our children. The children and I will appreciate anything you can do to influence Sally to end her affair, so it will be possible to save our marriage.

Sincerely,

OldSong

sadsosad:



D-Day1 There was quite the show of remorse for the first few days, nearly overboard, followed by little to none and then resentment following the Trickle-Truth Trials. D-Day2 there is no remorse, no anger just a studied calmness of denial.

I suspect she is being tutored by the her sister, the Black Widow, who she talks with several times a day.

Some important insights. This gal (Black Widow) took up with her pastor few years ago, resulting in the destruction of the church (literally), her divorce, his divorce, two of his kids going off the deep-end - prison & suicide attempts and even influenced the dissolution of her son's marriage via an affair. She is a highly unstable individual who has had an unhealthy influence over my WW all her life. She and the ex-pastor have embraced a new-age milieu that says guilt and remorse is not from God, God is basically who you say he is and has brought my wife into their 'group' some years ago.

Our last short-lived MC/IC came from this mind-set, I shut down the MC portion upon seeing she was a foil for those didn't like moral boundaries or principles (and I'm a liberal christian, not a holy-roller). My wife still sees her for IC, likely to justify her behavior.

So getting to remorse will be a challenge and a sign of major break-through should it occur.

Note my wife is currently refusing any MC, she says she is burned out on that. I asked her to look thru the MB material to take with her on the cruise. She passed. This is one of my tell-tales that her commitment to rebuilding our marriage is for show.

I already set-up an appointment with Steve for tomorrow am. Because I suspected the immenent post-exposure days will be epic.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Typically, I agree with short & sweet. But there are other issues at play:


1 Several members of her family are actively engaged in undermining the marriage.
2 The rest have bought into her tale of woe & entitlement.
3 She has fooled these folks for 50+ yrs that she is a sweet innocent (really) who has been dealt a bad hand.
4. She will spin this like crazy and the 2 bad eggs will assist.

Frankly, I long ago stopped being concerned with what these folks thought of me and have admantly refused to be part of their on-going melodramas. However...should I get some of them on my side, they will greatly increase our chance of success.

With a short & sweet and NO supporting data, she will just tell them to ignore it, that I am delusional...must be symptomatic of that depression crap.

Long story, has to do with moving to FL to support wife's career, starting own biz which I wasn't out of the darkness sufficiently to run successfully and trying to find work in a crappy economy.