I really thought we were through this and on our way to R. I knowing her and her background, I can say that she is nothing more than a naive and sometimes clueless woman. She insists that it is OK to have opposite sex friends in marriage withouht telling the other spouse. This has got to be the craziest I have heard. I told the MC this and he thinks she is nuts. He said if we picked 1000 people off the street and told them my recent story about her having coffee with a male behind my back, he was confident that 1000 people would say that is wrong. I cannot make her understand it.

I have set my boundaries. In fact, last night we talked and that exact word was used. She feels that I am stopping her from having friends because she gets along with men so much better than women.

She is going to mc for a solo session on Tuesday. I am not sure one session will help this. She thinks she is 'fine' and does not need to go.

I cannot take this. I am tired of not sleeping and breaking into tears several times a day. I still love her so much. Sadly, after 8 months of me doing Plan A, being a giver, seeing her so happy and things seemingly going so well, I can't help but think Plan D is right around the corner.

I should add that she feels as though I am spying on her every move and she really resents this. If I didn't keep one eye opened, how far would it have gone with OM #2?

Here is a question I am going to run across the MC before doing anything but I'd like to get some input here. WW has one friend. This woman is successful, had her head on straight and my wife really respects her. Would it be wise to talk to her friend about the situation in hopes that the friend can pound some sense into my WW?

IF....and I use the word "IF" purposefully,....IF this were true, then what is the problem?

Why are you posting on the "infidelity" forum?

Why are you not sleeping?

Why are you "breaking into tears several times a day".

"If I didn't keep one eye opened, how far would it have gone with OM #2?"


Your actions are not supporting your words.

committed

Why do you choose to live like this, CJ? You and the MC are not going to change your wife. The only one who can change your wife is your wife. And if there is no plan in place to recover your marriage, it is not going to be recovered by magic.

She has no reason to change. She is perfectly happy with how she is and has told you in so very many ways that your feelings mean nothing to her. Nothing. She will commit the most cruel, abusive acts against you and not bat an eyelash. And she knows you will tolerate it. She doesn't believe you would divorce her.

My suggestion would be to accept that you can't change her and face the truth. Make plans on that basis. Go into Plan B, CJ, before she gives you a nervous breakdown. You have been dealing with this for a very long time.

What you are doing is harmful to your marriage, CJ. You are the very reason why Dr Harley recommends Plan B. Much more of this and you will be having a nervous breakdown or will grow to hate her. Once you grow to hate her, it is very hard to turn that around.

CJ,

Was your WW ever sexually abused as a child? I see some signs in your posts that she has this as a possibility in her past. Don't assume she hasn't if you don't know of it. She very well could have and you don't know, but the big sign for me is, "she gets along better with men than with women".

This constant need for male attention is another big sign.

I'm sharing this with you since much of your post reminds me of my own sitch before my exww became actively physical with other men.

She had a "friend" on the base which she was meeting with on a regular basis and was a friendship I didn't know about until I stumbled into it one day and caught her playing video games with him.

I too dismissed her poor boundaries as "naivete" but it's deeper than that.

This was a frienship she wasn't open about. She texted him all the time and talked to him whenever I wasn't around and that was what made me uncomfortable.

It led to weeks of arguing. I stood my ground for the same reasons as you: Men are friends with women they are attracted to.

She also gave me the "you don't want me to have friends" and "I get along better with men than with women".

A woman that has these trust issues with other women raises big red flags for me.

Your WW needs to see a counselor about this. It's not normal behavior to have such poor boundaries with men and it's got nothing to do with being naive.

It's much deeper than that.

If your boundaries are not being met, and a smooth Plan A has been applied, can this be an opportunity to apply Plan B.

Vets, any comment?

I delayed a bit before sending this post. Looks like the vets positively responded.

Whoa on the plan D. Go to plan B. She needs to understand in a marriage, it is not what you want to do that is the limiting factor (like her wanting male friends), its what the spouse is comfortable with. THAT'S MARRIAGE. If you want to do something that your spouse does not want you to do, and you continue to do it, then you should split up. Does your wife work? If she doesn't try this. Close your joint bank account. Have her open one. give her a budget. When she freaks about this. Tell her if she lies to you about the little things, why in the world would she believe that you should trust her with the big things? If you lie about being with men. Why wouldn't you lie about finances. She will not like this in the least. Tell her you will be more then happy to put her back on the account, if she will submit to a lie detector test. Simple. The family finances are a HUGE motivating factor. If she will not take a polygraph, then you will know that she is afraid of the questions she will be asked. This is brinksmanship. But if you are serious of getting to the bottom of what happened, and make lying to you in the future very risky. Do it.

I think we're too quick to jump on the polygraph thing here.

It's such an elaborate thing to have to go through, that it almost seems to be not worth it.

Seriously, why should a BS have to go through such elaborate means to confirm the WS is not lying. It just doesn't seem worth the effort. NO ONE is worth that level of effort.

It's really simple. Lay down your boundaries. If she continues to cross them, then go to Plan B and prepare for Plan D unless she shows a genuine desire to change her ways.

To quick to jump on the polygraph? His name is crushedJim. He has no idea if he can ever trust her again. He is calling a shrink. If this isn't the time for a polygraph. Just when do you think the time is for a polygraph? I am amazed how often people just dismiss a polygraph out of hand. Let me see. I can force her to take a polygraph (Either that or divorce), or I can sit around having a nervous break down because I CAN'T BELIEVE A WORD THAT COMES OUT OF HER CAKE HOLE. DUH? Force the polygraph issue, so you can make some decisions. Why are people AGAINST finding out the truth? He doesn't need to worry about hurting the marriage. THE MARRIAGE IS BROKEN NOW, because of her lies.

"Sadly, after 8 months of me doing Plan A,"

Sadly plan A is for a maximum of six months. You should be two months into the darkest plan B.

Why are you not in plan B?

You have wasted two months.

It is not proper for a married woman to drive 40 miles for lunch with another man and hiding that from her husband. In addition, he was belittling me in his emails to her which my MC said is the beginning of him making a move on her.

This is not an infidelity forum. Besides, what she is doing is CHEATING....emotionally maybe but she is a liar.

I am in tears and not sleeping because I love this woman who is crushing me with her behavior.

I think that if a marriage is so broken that you must subject the other spouse to a polygraph then it is best to cut your losses and seek sanity.

I just don't think anyone is worth that level of effort.

But to each his own.

What I've learned, and this is going to sound salty, is that women (and men for you ladies) are replaceable. There's others out there that don't have the high drama and betrayal that needs to be worked through.

Divorce is by no means a picnic, but it's infinitely better than being condemned to a life of self doubt, suspicion, and everything else that comes with the recovery from the he77 of infidelity.

I'm of the thought that no wayward is worth it unless they own up to their mistake upfront and do anything and everything to regain the trust of the BS.

Short of that they should be held accountable in court and without mercy or compromise. Adultery should be a crime, in my opinion, and adulterers should get absolutely nothing in a divorce. Zero. Zilch. Nothing but the clothes on their back for the destruction and devastation they bring to their spouses and children.

But again, I'm salty.

My tolerance level for drama from people I date is very, very low. The kids and I simply don't need it.

I think that the moment a BS realizes that life carries on without the cheating idiot they're married to and they truly see that person as replaceable (they are) THAT is when the BS is truly liberated.

Ironically, it's when the WS finally wakes up.

Because up until last Friday, everything was good.....then I caught her.

pom,

I agree completely ... the longer I read here, it is becoming quite obvious that probably 90+% of the BH's that come here would be better served by going straight to Plan D, rather than wasting some of the best years of their lives on a broken WW.

These "plans" only work if you have both partners on board, and that rarely occurs. The plans are great for the times when all of the puzzle pieces are present, but when you're missing the biggest piece of the puzzle (a remorseful and repentent WW), then your task will never be achieved, no matter how hard a BH tries.

More drama: Last night she did a facebook search for OM #1. Nothing more but that's enough.

I have a beautiful house, good job and kids I love. I have NO other family here. I know Plan B will show her what she will be missing but that won't help ME. If she came up to me right now and said that she was wrong, it is wrong for her to do what she did, she will never ever do it again, should I believe her? If so, sell me a bridge as part of the deal.

As I stated early on, I was a TERRIBLE husband. Her EN's were ignored. I had no clue. I caught her with OM #1 and she filed for D. I blamed myself and I plan A'd for myself. I wanted to be that perfect husband that she deserved. I can now say that "I rock"! I am here for her, meeting every need, supporting her, here for the kids. I am a totally different person. If she cannot adibe by the simple boundry I have set, I am sure there is another woman out there who can. I am 43 now. I don't want to continue like this and end up divorcing at 53.

I cannot continue living like this. Now I feel like I have to watch every single thing. Every time she is on the compter. Every cellphone call. Every text message. Every time she goes out. How long can I keep this up before relaxing? 3 months? 6 months? 2 years? I just can't do it. Plan B might make her think and stop her behavior but it won't make me trust her.

One more message to or from any OM and I have to leave and initiate Plan D.

The title of the Forum is ....Infidelity General Questions 2. So, yes, this forum is centered on issues of infidelity.


When she is the one that drives 40 miles to where they are...she is being the aggressor.

You are not placing responsibility where it lays...which is with HER.

You have to montitor things closely you say...why is that? Cause men are trolling by? No...cause SHE is going to them.

Keep living in denial and your marriage doesn't stand a chance.

committed

Actually, when this happens you will just move your boundry again to allow her to continue.

FWIW, a woman who drives 40 miles for lunch with another man has every intention of freely giving away what's in her pants.

Hi - I just have to comment that I have been going through something similar with my WH. After several reconcilliations with me and counseling he was again in touch with the OW. . . the only way I always found out was through checking his e-mails, text messages etc. So it can be a very addictive thing when you are seeking "the truth". It's on my mind 24 x 7. The only reason he is still with me is that the OW never had intentions of leaving her marriage for him. It is an agonizing feeling because you end up taking on a "parental role" with your spouse!

Again, there's not a soul on this planet that is worth living this way for.