I realize this is a marriage builders forum and not a divorce builders forum but this board *is* here, so hear goes.

I'm very, very close to deciding this marriage has nowhere to go and, despite almost 21 years, it would be best if we separated in the immediate term---not sure yet of the long term.

I have no idea how to proceed. We've been through 3 MCs, none seemed to be able to really help us get back on track. H had an EA 2005/2006; I think, but am not absolutely positive that there has been NC. He has been unemployed more often than not and though I felt necessary to stick by him, his emotional state now is to the point where I feel like the convenient dog for him to kick when he's frustrated. But more than that, I don't think the kids are benefitting at all from our marriage the way it is.

I know if I mention separating to him, that will be that (I've actually already mentioned it, but have not followed through). When his college girlfriend didn't want to marry him, he broke up with her. When another serious girlfriend (the EA) broke it off, he was too proud to go after her. When his first wife left him, he changed the locks. So if I make this move, I'd better be prepared for it to be permanent.

Is counseling with the Harleys a wise idea at this point? It would probably only be me--H is not buying into the MB philosophy at this point.

And where do I go from here? Contact a lawyer? A mediator? Both?

OH, are you saying you are going to move out of the house, or are you requesting that he move out? If you plan to stay, what will you do if he refuses to leave?

I think you are right that you need to be open to the consequences of his reaction to the separation, but do you know what the separation means to you? Does it mean that you are completely done, or that you're not sure and want to some time 'alone' to figure it out and/or to see if separation has a positive effect on him. Does it mean that you will no longer be concerned about meeting his ENs? Will you respond if he tries to meet your ENs? What are you going to do about money?

Finding a lawyer probably depends on what state you are in. You could possible wait to see if he's going to file.

When my wife wanted to separate, her goal was to see if she would "miss me". She stated that she was not trying to evaluate our relationship at all. She wasn't saying divorce, she just didn't want to talk to me or see me if at all possible. She simply went about her life as normal without me there. Although I understand the logic, I don't recommend this. For one thing, it's a major LB, or atleast it felt that way. I did not respond well to this. It also wasn't a very good test since separated life is very different then single life.

So I don't know. I guess I'm recommeding that you work things out before hand and make sure you know how you want to do this, what you're goal is, does this have a chance to meet your goals, and are you prepared to accept what could happen.

I didn't personally counsel with the Harleys and I gave up attempts at recovering my M fairly soon after D-day, however, I've found MB principals to be very helpful in my personal recovery. I'm sure counselling with them will be helpful regardless of what path you choose.

Divorce, separation and all things in between are governed by your state laws and the mechanics of it varies widely. Most lawyers will give you a free 30 minute consultation. It wouldn't hurt to make appointments with several different lawyers and using the free consultations to determine exactly how divorce/separation works in your state. It will also give you the chance to "interview" these different lawyers in case you need to pick one. Simply meeting with lawyers an asking for information is not equivalent to separating or divorcing, so you can do this even if you haven't reached a decision.

No, I'm not planning to move out, though I've thought about it if he outright refuses. I should probably figure out the consequences of that action in my state, before I do it! Money is an issue since I'm the only one working and we really can't afford two households or I might have been gone long before this (or he might have been--sometimes I feel as though he's just waiting to find a job before he drops the bomb on me--'see ya!')

I wholeheartedly subscribe to the MB theories--which I really just discovered last November. I wish I had discovered them earlier--perhaps we could have saved ourselves burning through three MCs and he would be more open to MBers. But he has no interest in "another website", "another counselor", etc. and I can't say I blame him.

I am currently in a Plan A--trying to make things as pleasant as possible around the house before he leaves on a 3 week trip. I'm tired of fighting. So I'm doing my best not to LB and to meet ENs. The reverse is not happening, since he has no clue what a LB or EN is and his behavior has not changed at all. I try to set boundaries and let him know I can't discuss something if he's going to be angry and yell at me about it.

Before you do anything else see a matrimonial attorney in your state. Get some referrals and go to the best person you can find. It does not need to be someone you could remotely afford. Make an appointment with this request. "I probably can't afford you but I hear you are the best and I want someone to tell me the truth about what is realistically going to happen if I file for divorce. Will I get custody? Will I need to pay alimony? How will our assets be divided? Can he drag this out? For how long?"

Pay for that hour. Don't let it be a "free consult / sales pitch". Find out what is going to happen. Ask all the worst questions. Make it clear that you don't intend to hire the attorney and that your only goal is to get a realistic take on what is going to happen. You are a professional, you can handle the truth.

The truth is that in certain states, the laws are very hard on the primary breadwinner...which is you. You may not get primary physical custody. You may have to pay alimony. In some states the odds are very good that you will be required to have 50 / 50 custody (so you will absolutely need to maintain 2 households even if they are both 1br rentals right next to each other) and you will need to pay him child support. It varies by state. See a few attorneys and make sure you are getting very clear on what the laws are.

Whatever you do, don't move out of the house and don't hire an attorney who says that you can. In many states it will hurt your ability to get physical custody.

So take this time while you husband is out of town and see a few attorneys and talk to a few IRL friends who have been through divorces with husbands who wanted the kids.

You may well find that the answers to your consults will motivate you to work on your marriage like never before. I know that is what happened for me. Good luck.

OH, you really really should stick to one thread. Every time you start a new one, those who are helping have to decide if they have the time to start on yet another thread, and those who haven't yet don't know your story and may give you incorrect advice. You can change the title/subtitle in your original thread to match today's issues.