Lots on this thread..................



First, my H jumped right on board on d-day - while in an ACTIVE affair - and dumped the OW right away. He never contacted her again, and she never contacted him again. The end.

So there is at least one person on MB that this has happened to. BUT!!!!!!

This is absolutely NOT THE NORM. Because most people in active affairs will NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT just dump the OP and hop back into the marriage. The reason is that most people in active affairs are there with emotional attachments and entanglements, they are in the fog, and they are actively engaged in justifications for their idiotic behavior.


So most WS's will absolutely refuse to stop their affairs. They are (puke) in love with the OP. Or so they think they are.

In my H's case, he wasn't even "in like" with the OW. She was sex-for-the-sake-of-sex. And vice-versa for her. In the case of FogFree, it was a ONS, not enough time for the entanglements of "love", etc., perhaps. Just long enough for the justifications of saying "Gee, I was feeling _________________ in the marriage" (you can fill in the blank with the appropriate WS babble).



If one reads the Harley materials, it is quite well explained that there are strong patterns to affairs. There are some who vary from the generally STRONG PATTERNS. These variations are not particularly important, however, because overall, the METHODS FOR RECOVERING THE MARRIAGE WILL STILL WORK. Jack needs to read the material, figure out his position as applicable to him and his wife, and figure out the appropriate

METHOD FOR RECOVERING HIS MARRIAGE. But at this point, he's definitely in the right place.....



Let's see. Right now, this wife is....where?

So Jack should....


Plan A whenevery he gets the chance.
Protect his financial assets.
Plan for the arrangements of possible legal custody of the children of the marriage if the wife decides to leave/divorce for the OM slimeball.
Arrange to have as much information about OM slimeball available so that if this thing does happen to go to court, he can fight with everything he has to keep these kids from EVER meeting OM until it is completely and absolutely unavoidable.
Discuss the possiblity of OMC and the pending DNA issues with OM's wife.
Expose to wife's parents.

Don't think about making any moves quite yet. You've got some information to gather first, and some assets to protect. Get a lawyer.

The only thing I can figure that throws a wrench in this is if the DNA comes back that the kids are the OM's. Then, this switches over to a completely different ballgame.

OK - but this was not an entangled affair with high level of emotional attachment for fogfree was it?

See my wife's affair built up over a 12 month period then it was actied on and physical for 3 months. There was a high level of emotional attachment and she had planned a new life with OM. I was "lucky" I discovered her affair a couple of months before they were able to execute their plans.

On d-day she moved out. No desire to save marriage or even to try. Exposure and a Plan A by me turned that around within 2 weeks and she moved back home. Very withdrawn and nasty WS at that point.

I took her house keys and credit cards off her when she moved out.

In retrospect I believe I did almost everything right. A demand would not have worked - she wanted her life with the OM.

6 weeks or so of wihdrawal and I found MB and she was ready to try. We had moved away from OM who was our next door neighbour. SHe never did break NC and once committed to recovery did the work. She even did stuff she didn't feel like doing or want to do because she did believe if she followed the program that her feelings would change and they did.


Well I think they do work quite a lot and have more success than kicking them to the curb. I depends a lot on the degree of emotional attachment the WS has for the OP. Fog free had none-very little. My wife had a high level attachment. Your approach would not have worked with her and perhaps my approach wouldn't have worked with yours.

I really believe Dr Harleys plans give the best chances of recovery but NOTHING is certain in adultery. Always back the fastest horse - it may not always win but the chances are better anyway.


And to you and Fogfree as well!

It has been a while since posting and I am still lost. My wife is "trying" to do the right things, ie counseling and going to church regularly but I still feel all of the pain. Don't want to look at her, talk to her, kiss her. The feelings are just not there. We as well as all of you had V day yesterday and the hardest thing I could do was buy her a card. We then proceeded to watch a new movie, Fireproof, which brought it all out again. She shows no remorse, just wants to move on... I don't know if the pain will continue indefinetly. I am at my wits end. She should be doing the making up but all she wants to do is not talk and move on. I can't.

One more thing. I have told my wife how I feel about infidelity and right now as I speak she is giving a baby shower to her best friend, unmarried and cheated with her boyfriend who had cheated on his wife several times. Does this sound like good choices?????

by wanting to just get over it your wife trivializes your pain. No one gets past this until you get past this. You and your wife have very different moral compasses, as she was able to justify her affair to herself. And now wants to just sweep it under the rug. You need to do whats going to make you happy with her or without her. The children will cope. Did the DNA test come back?

With the help of my counselor and my pastor, whom I am friends with both, I have taken this one day at a time. Divorce is easy but I am beginning to see your point about the moral compass. It just took time to sit back and watch her actions. After watching the movie last night, Fireproof, and her reiterating she wants to move on, I just don't have a lot of faith in the future. Not only for us but that she would not do this again.It just seemed too easy for her.

Jack:

What are your plans?

You have watched her since December.

What has that got you?

She claims she just wants to "move on". To what? Her next affair partner?

Have your read His Needs, Her Needs? Surviving an Affair? Both are available from this website.

Then start formulating a plan for recovering your marriage. Your WW may not agree to participate. That will be her choice.

But, then you will have begun to do everything that YOU NEED TO DO TO RECOVER your marriage before you give her the boot.

Would you rather look into the eyes of your children in a number of years and tell them that you "did everything that I could" instead of "well it just didn't work out" After picking them up with BF#4 at your exW's house sitting on your old couch?

Its up to you. Put in the good fight. It will make all the difference in the world, later on.

LG

Jack, What I have seen is that there is a spectrum of WW who want to reconcile. On one end of the spectrum is the wife who is so contrite that she is in a complete full sorrow meltdown. She is basically numb from what she has done and is totally depressed. This is difficult to overcome because she doesn't believe she is forgivable. A husband has to side line his own pain to care for her. This is very unfair. On the other end of the spectrum is the "Dodged a bullet there" wife. She does a half assed mia culpa, maybe. Then its "Can't you just get over this already". She trivializes her husbands pain, which does not allow him to GRIEVE properly, so that he can get beyond it. This is a broad spectrum. But I believe the "Dodged a bullet wife" in some instances is actually aided by the BS in this process. Due to his love for her, he will take her back without proper recognition of the pain she has put her spouse through. Feeling that he can love her back into respecting him, his love, and her vows. I feel if there is not sufficient contrition on her part, it actually sets reconciliation up for failure. Forgiveness came to cheap. It is not valued. With the devaluation or his forgiveness compounded buy the devaluation of his own self esteem, this creates bitterness and can actually impede reconciliation. One of the greatest problems I see with no fault reconciliation is.......no atonement. Nothing to say your sorry for. Just move back in together and start over. This may work in some cases. But every ones emotional makeup is different. With one man it may be very easy to forgive. With another absolutely impossible. I think a reconciliation must be molded to fit the personalities of the participants to a degree. A wayward spouse must VALUE THE OTHERS PAIN. AND ACCEPT THAT THEY ARE THE REASON FOR IT. THEN SEEK TO ATONE FOR THE WOUND THEY HAD PERPETRATED ON SOMEONE THEY SUPPOSEDLY LOVED MOST IN THE WORLD. Again all I have said is JMHO

That is what I have looked for. Perfect scenario. Thanks.

ouchthathurt,
when you made your comment about dodging the bullet, I made the statement that it was right on the spot.We have been to counseling again and just seems as though she wants to move on. I have told my counselor that I feel that I am owed a deep apology. Not just when I get mad and tell her I want out or something which happened back in Nov and Dec when this all began. I have told my wife that I want to move forward with Marriage and don't think I should tell her she needs to apologize. She should realize this or we just are on two separate pages. I am confused.

Can anyone out there tell me what withdrawal symptoms should be after a 2.5 yr affair and knowing this person for 10 plus. I haven;t seen any since exposure 4 months ago???

Jack,

I have been reading your thread and have a few questions and comments. First question, what did the DNA tests indicate? Second, how old is your W? This is actually a fairly important question. Third, what is her education level? I am asking this because the ability to abstract think I believe is related to the ability to emphasize.

Here is the one thing that has me most worried and it is from your first post.
Moving on is NOT AN OPTION! Clearly she learned nothing from the devastation of her affair in the first marriage. IF she does not address herself to her ignorance, you have no chance of making this marriage work. What is she willing to do, change, address that would give you hope, that ruining two marriages will bother her anymore than ruining one marriage did?

There is nothing wrong with walking away. I think if your W actually showed care, a willingness to protect you and the marriage, rather than "move on" you could find it in your heart to forgive her. Her affair lasted for almost 1/2 of your marriage at the time.

I would say the data is mounting up very fast that she is not marriage material or even mother material. You really do need to evaluate the data.

God Bless,

JL

JL,
First, I have not done the DNA test. I have to believe in my heart that they are mine. But that is not to say I will not do it in six months. The test is really expensive. I do know that I need to know...My W is 41 soon to be 42 and has a bachelor's degree in college,social work.
You asked what she is willing to do/change. I do give her credit as she is more involved in our Church and wants to go to Counseling as much as I do, but never asking me to forgive her at all....All she is wanting to do is plan things for the future....
Jack

Jack--I'll step up to the plate to try to give you some of the withdrawal symptoms after that period of time. At least for me they were: severe depression, insomnia, very quiet as my mind was preoccupied with OM and trying to analyze the "why" of everything, crying (alot) and like I said just overall depression. There are probably more but I can't think of them right now. You may not see these symptoms because she can hide them from you if she chooses.
I hope that this answers your question to a certain degree.
Good luck.

Dawn,
Thanks for the response. My w shows none of this..I can't figure it out unless it really isn't over. I could see this due to how long they have been doing this. I have checked all of my places, ie phone records, emails and stuff. I would hate to think she is that cunning and deceptive. I really appreciate your insight and I hope I can prove helpful to you.Any thoughts on her still continuing even though she has been to counseling, stepped it up at church, told her mom and many friends??
Thanks,
Jack

Hi Jack, Your wife just does not understand the depth of pain she has caused you. You do not want to ask her for an apology. You are absolutely right!!!!! It is nothing about you asking for an apology. It is everything about her coming to you and asking you for FORGIVENESS. Let me explain. Her saying she is sorry or even apologizing is not what is called for. When she apologizes and says she is sorry, she is taking the power in the situation. Power that belongs to you. It is not her place to feel better because she said sorry. It is about her giving up her power knowing that you are the one who was wronged.

She needs to come to you with tears in contrition for what she has done to you. She took something that was yours and gave it to another man. You can't absolve yourself by saying I'm sorry. It can't be done!

You can't move beyond this because she has not humbled herself and asked for your forgiveness, thus showing that she does not value it or you. The exact same reason she was able to let another man inside her for 2.5 years. She has moved beyond it and left you behind. Does that sound like a marriage? In a marriage when one suffers the other suffers. You are suffering and she is not. And since she is the cause of your suffering it makes the pain all the more grievous.

Jack,

41 one marriage destroyed by an affair with OM. 41, and a second marriage with an 2.5 year affair with OM. 41 and she cannot apologize or see your pain. 41 and she only wants to go to counseling but little else. 41 and she is not in withdrawal from OM of over 10 years.

The data seems clear. They are in contact somehow, and yes she can be that devious. Heck, man she has been practicing for years now.

Jack, a 41 year old woman that would destroy one marriage and severely risk her second with the same OM, is not a woman to be taking risks with. She is old enough to have learned.

You have some serious decisions to make and they won't be easy. I say look at her actions, look at the data, and then make the best decision you can.

God Bless,

JL

Ok,
It sounds like there is not total committment from the ww. I have checked phone records, emails and stuff. Not to snoop and I have said I want this to work but we must verify. Any suggestions?? Thanks.

Voice activated recorder in her car. Keylogger on her computer.

What was your wife's family life like when she was young? This lack of empathy is a very bad sign. Also what does your wife say about your concerns about the kids paternity? (Please get that test done!!!)