Never. Y'all would NEVER allow that. That's why I keep comin' back. I'm a glutten for punishment.

Really? Because up until about three weeks before this trip, there was no OM. There wasn't anyone else in my life telling me how fantastic and desireable I am. I had been begging my H for 3 years for MC. I had been the one begging for more affection and more SF. Not just that weekend, but for years. It was just 6 weeks before (before I knew about OM) in January when we had our worst fight ever -- and that's saying a lot. A fight about how I wanted him to please kiss me, please hold my hand. How I needed to know he still finds me attractive. His response? "We're not in high school any more. You kiss and make-out when you're courting. (Yes, he said "courting".) I'm not going to sit on the couch and kiss you all over. We don't need that any more." I looked at him with tears running down my face and said "I need that. I can't be only a body you can scr** at 3am. I need kisses and smiles and hugs." He walked away.

I'm certain I wasn't fulfilling ENs and that I contributed to our marital problems. But I'm also pretty certain that when it came to physical contact, I was not pushing him away -- at least I wasn't trying to. I tried overt acts, subtle acts, asking directly, coyly teasing... I tried everything I could think of. And the only times I felt my H found me remotely desireable was when he was drunk or when it was at 3am. We would go months without SF, much to my chagrin.

Okay. I'll give him this. I'm sure he knew something was up. Our M was so bad by this time, I don't know who could have told the difference between normal and odd behavior.

Understood.

Yes. I know pretty much everything I did wrong in this whole thing. Starting with I should not have been alone with FOM to chat after the other co-workers had left. Then I should have told H what FOM had said to me when I got home. Then I should have told H when I was feeling kind of funny about FOM... I know every mistake I made and where I failed. Can't I still be a tiny bit disappointed though, that my H did not one time in 4 days of being together at a classy resort -- where we have been many times -- want to hold me? I'm not dwelling on it. Over and done. But if I do reflect back, can't I be at least kind of, just a tad, teensy-weensy little miniscule bit sad that he mocked and dismissed me?

Yep. And nope. A few weeks later at the end of March when we were at a concert, H and I had a fabulous time. A very R-rated time followed by X-rated back home. It was awesome and I lived on that high for 2 days. Until real life returned Monday and I allowed his actions to make me feel like the worthless W again. But I do agree with you. I was looking for any and every excuse after a while to justify me betraying my H. Guilty as charged.

Absolutely.

Okay. Thank you and your words are well noted.

Ya, think?

I have to be in the mood for it. I think there may be days when I should just come on here, check my usual stops (Smiles & Trials, Song For The Day, Vacation Thread, Lil, Drgnfly, BBB, Sprakarooni, anything new from Mark, and a few others) then close out until another day. Some stuff otherwise just pi**es me off or saddens me terrible. For example, I know I'm staying away from the Pet Names thread that just started. I am that OW and I don't think I need to know what BSs call me.

Will do. As always, thanks for stopping by, LG.

L4:

I'll never understand a Husband that wouldn't have SF with a willing spouse.

Or ONLY when he was willing to "break-down" because he was drunk, or it was "meat" time at 3 am.

This rally indicates how far apart you two were in this marriage.

You could beg, or whatever, he wasn't going to do it.

I stated that you had been pushing your H away, and you counter with your attempts to "get closer, or SF, etc" and that you had been talking to OM for only 3 weeks at that time.

But the "pushing away" may NOT have only included SF or affection. It could have been other LB's that had been occuring. You may not have been aware of these LB's at that time, but I hope you can see them now.

This recovery is going to be tough for you L4.

Your getting it. Lets hope that Mr L4 does.

About this:

Those "nickname" threads pop up every 4-5 months. I get amusement reading them. I stopped one dead once by just posting simply "lousygolfer"

Well, I thought it was funny....

LG

Crystal clear. We were both LBing like it was going out of style. He was king of AOs, DJ, IBs while I also had a pretty good hold on IBs and of course as of last year I ruled with dishonesty. Now that I understand LBs and ENs, I can see where I messed up.

Why?

It is.

L4

Your BH was not being a good husband. He built walls. Why did your BH act this way?

You chose to have an affair.

BH and you both made bad choices. The choice after an affair is to continue to move apart or move together.

This is POWERFUL. Wow. Just...wow.

Is this a rhetorical question for me to ask myself? Or were you looking for an answer, TheRoad?

No intent to be powerfull, to ask questions, or get an answer.

Stating what was, what happened, that you and your BH have a new choice. Life is a series of choices.

Not to condem anyone. You have been working hard to change. You needed to. Your BH needed to change. Has he?

Both have to work to make a marriage good.

And what if our choices don't mesh?

This is what wakes me in the middle of the night.

Jim,

Can you let me know the best way to contact Mrs. Flint?

Thanks.

Hey Looking4!

Now who's listening in on conversations? Mrs. Flint and I have been reading and talking about your thread!

I will ask her if she would like to register and have her own screen ID or if she would prefer to continue using mine to respond.

SHE WILL BE THRILLED THAT YOU ASKED FOR HER!!!

Talk to you later.



Jim

Life is give and take. It will take time for you and your BH to change and have a better marriage.

I'm sorry because I think I have shaken your confidence in that your marriage will be recovered. No one can give you a 100% guarantee for success. You being here has greatly tilted the odds in your favor. It would increase your odds if your BH would start his own post here.

Recovery is a two to five year work in progress. No couple is guaranteed success if they attempt recover. Five years can be spent at the end result can be divorce.

If you need certainty then recovery is not for you. I think your normal in that you need to be getting signs of success as you put in effort. Changes happen slow and are hard to notice on a day to day time frame.

Hi Looking4!
I feel like I already know you from hearing about you from Jim and reading your posts. Just post to Mrs. Flint through Jim's post for now and I should have my very own tomorrow! If there is something you would rather discuss in private I will notify the moderator to give you my e-mail address. Jim tells me you are having a little bit of a rough time right now. I KNOW THE FEELING! I always wished I would have had someone to talk to as I REALLY felt alone sometimes. Let me hear from you if you want to talk. Mrs. Flint

Hi there,

I read some of your thread and wanted to send you a message of hope. Reading your post sent me back to early 2004 when I was in a similar situation - I told my DH about an A that had been over for 6 months. His response was to become increasingly distant from me, to move towards his own EA, and to almost drown in resentment and anger. It took about 6 months of my changed behaviour, my being patient, loving and consistent to my values, as well as understanding the reason for my A, and gradually learning to love and forgive myself, before he began to trust me, and then 9 months after DDay he agreed to go to MC.

Since then our M has just become better and better. In MC, we were discussing what we wanted for our M, and he really wasn't sure if he wanted to continue. The MC asked him if he thought our M was better now or then.... and even he had to admit it was much better now.

I believe we would not still be married, and we certainly wouldn't have our DD, if it wasn't for the A. Not the A as such, but our response to it. Unfortunately I am a person who had to learn things the hard way. Our recovery involved a year of MC, several years of IC for me, lots of posts on here, lots of difficult conversations with DH, reading many books, meditation, prayer, much grief, anger, and facing fears, and trying out new behaviours that felt strange and odd. It has taken several years, and its on-going. I have changed profoundly and in ways that have deeply enriched my life. Even if my M had not made it, I would have still gained tremendously from the self-examination and the new insights that I received from the ashes of the pain and grief.

We're still working on creating a climate of honesty, safety and care for each other, and progress is still happening. Just last week, we had a disagreement about an issue. Just as I could feel my annoyance rise, DH said, lets talk about this later. Its not a good time now as you're getting angry. Two days later, he brought up the topic himself. He said, sorry, I was completely wrong. DH has had a life long difficulty in admitting when he is wrong. I have had a life long difficulty in restraining myself when I don't feel heard. Its a measure of how safe we both feel in our M now that he can freely admit to being wrong, and I can freely agree to delay a conversation about an issue thats important to me, trusting that we will actually resolve it at a time thats right for both of us.

Hi Looking4!
Jim said that you were asking how is the best way to contact me. I feel so honored that you asked!

Sorry that you are going through the hell that you are going through. You are so lucky that you have come to MB! There are some really great people who care so much for others. I wish that I would have known about MB a long time ago. Thank God that Jim loved me so much and cared so much that he found MB and shared it with me.

You were right in asking if he was an exception to the rule. He IS a VERY special person and I know I am so very lucky that he is my husband. I know that when dealing with me he has had to have the patience of Job! Wonder if that comes from being a cowgirl who also happens to a Taurus!

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that I would be happy to have you contact me if you would like to. If there is something that you would like to discuss in private let me know and I can have the moderator give you my e-mail address.

Hello Mrs. Flint,

Welcome to the posting world of MB.

We are all very lucky too that Mr. Flint found this site.

V
(as L4 has named me)

Hi V!!

Thanks for the welcome.Looking forward to reading everybody's posts. MB is truly a great site and the are some wonderful caring people that literally have been through what other people have gone through and have great insites as to what works and what may not work so well.

And you guys also know when to tell people that they are in the fog. :twobyfour:

Sometimes people try to get advice from a friend who may not have the knowledge to help and may not have the best interest for the person or the marriage/family so it is wonderful to see the true caring from the people in MB's.

It would have been nice for Jim and I to have had the support and guidance of you all years ago when our troubles began . It would have saved much time and heartaches.

Sometimes things culminate -- reach a tipping point -- and I want to forget this reality and just know. I want to know how it's all going to turn out. However, if I can focus and take a breath and truly see the many blessings I have like our children, my family, the fact that H is still here with me, my general health, our home, my faculties, God's grace... I have to account for the fact that I am very blessed indeed. And things will happen as they will, when they will.

Thank you, SMU, for jumping in. Your story is appreciated and nice to read. Especially after this week. I've had a lot of soul searching this last year and this last week, for whatever reason, took on an interesting flavor -- I felt very directionless. Not anything I could articulate even here on MB so I've been spending more time on threads other than my own. I'm trying to figure out what may be happening, but then I think it's just easier to get immersed in others' issues, whether on MB or at work or within my family. (My sister's in the early stages of what could be an ugly divorce.)

I'm a little disheveled in my daily doings, but where H is concerned I think I'm staying on task well. And your words are helpful.

Take care.

Hey, V...

Where's that thread of yours?

I don't know why it is, Mrs. Flint, but there is comfort for me in seeing you here.

I brought it on myself.

This place has been a Godsend.

You are very fortunate.

Did you know I'm of the bull too? (And no need for comments back on that from the peanut gallery.)

I'll formulate something deeper when I have more time. You offering to help then you responding to my request for contact means much to me. Now I feel like I can't waste your time so I must be thoughtful with my words.

Thank you for being here.