A former poster told me about this board and I have been doing a lot of reading on this site. I always considered myself to be a good wife and mother. I am far from perfect but my husband cheating came as a huge shock. I relate to those posts I have read about their spouse being taking over by aliens. What I have found more devastating than the affair itself is all the continued lies and broken no contacts. I have stopped counting how many times he has broken contact since d-day.

I am having trouble figuring out why he cheated. WH cannot say I was a neglectful wife or let myself go. I always put him and DD first. When I look at WH I am trying so hard to find the man I used to know. I ask myself everyday why I would even consider taking him back.

From all the reading I have done exposure is essential. I did not realize how much until I started reading here. I was always afraid to expose.

After catching WH sneaking a call in a garage I decided something had to change. I told OW BH what his wife was up too. It turns out he had some suspicions but did not have any proof. OW covers her tracks better than WH did. I found out he packed up OW clothes in trash bags and dumped them at her place of work. That inspired me so I changed the locks on the house and told WH he could not come back. I informed WH’s immediate family and they are disgusted by his affair and turned him away when he tried to stay with them.

WH is begging me to let him come back home. He says his life is now in danger and that OW’s husband might do him bodily harm. He says it will be my fault if he ends up dead and our DD grows up without a father.

OW’s BH told me that the OW is pleading with him not to divorce her and texted WH never to contact her again. She resigned from her job on Friday and no longer has a cell phone.

OW’s BH busted up the affair in 1 day and I could not do it in 2 months. All this time I thought WH was biding his time trying to decide if he wanted me or OW. I don’t think either of them intended to leave given how quickly the OW dumped WH. I feel both of them were playing with my life and the worst part is I allowed it to happen.

I don’t want my daughter to come from a divorced home but I cannot get passed the fact that he would still be lying and carrying on with OW if I had not told her husband.

He is feeling sorry for himself and DD keeps asking me when he is coming home. Unless OW's BH has changed his mind I believe he is going to give her one chance. I believe he means it too and I also believe OW knows this is her only chance.

I have given WH multiple chances. He says this time is different but I don't know. Also what is too stop him from having an affair later on? I feel like I am drowning here. Advice?

Hello,

I DID get my WH by default! I learned of his affair and confronted him about it. He was shocked and upset and lied his face off to conceal the identity of the OW. Said it was over. However, I could tell that it wasn't and then found the proof on his computer (e-mails and a receipt with her name and address on it). I thought I could win him back without involving the other woman who turned out to be married and living on the other side of the country. I put up with horrible indignation for 4 months and still he continued. Finally, called the OWs H. He flipped out and OW dumped my WS. He crawled back in hysterics and we were in R. Ok it was false recovery 2ce because they continued the contact. I think my WS never had the consequence of not having anyone. You have that upper hand now and I would hold onto it! Truthfully, because I have to live with this now until I can make other plans. The OW's H doesn't trust her and wants to get back at my WS. . . it's a terriblel situation to be in. I probably shouldn't even be talking to the OW's H but I feel bad for him because he has no one to talk to about all of this.

I know the emotions are hard and it won't get easier any time soon. First things first. A is over. Exposure is an amazing tool. You loved your H once and agree that WH is nothing you recognize. You may be able to get H back once WH's fog clears which NC and time will do.

I suggest you not make any rash decisions. Give yourself time. If you decide to let WH back in the house, make some very clearly defined rules that, if he breaks, he leaves.

Most of us get our WSs by default. Very few come running back to the M. I know my FWW wanted to run off with OM for many months. Now she is glad she didn't. So there is always the possibility.

BTW nothing is your fault. If OWH does off your WH, WH deserves that credit.

Dear kadens,

I'm so sorry you find yourself in this appalling position. I have been here too, with repeated D Days and an affair that only ended after exposure to OWH.

I agree and disagree with pio about not focusing too much on your H wanting to come home because he has been dumped. I have read many posts from people here showing that the conditions that led to the end of the affair are not important; what IS important is that, once it is over, you take the lead in building a new marriage with H. He might not want to do anything much himself at first, because he might be in withdrawal, but if you do your best to meet the emotional needs (correctly identified) that he will let you meet, he stands a good chance of returning to the marriage - properly, in his heart.

I do agree with that approach because other people here show that it has worked; I think pio is saying that this is how it worked for him. If I remember correctly, pio, you had to be rigourous in cutting off WW's access to OM; she would not do this herself. Once she got through her savage withdrawal, your work began to pay off. Yours is a very encouraging story.

However, kadens, I worry about taking this path is your situation. Look at your H's words about why he wants to return.

If he is already out of the house, then you have been successful in setting standards for yourself and your daughter. You have not tolerated his having an affair under your roof and your care. You have finally stopped supporting his affair by hiding it from people who know you. You have held your head up and not been ashamed, and you have found that his family think that HIS behaviour is shameful, not yours. You have been living as a single parent for a while, so you know how it can be done.

I have misgivings about letting H move home on the basis of his ridiculous argument about OWH endangering his life. Okay, on very rare occasions BH's do kill the OM, but how likely is this, really? Does WH really fear this? I doubt it, and I think it is shameful that he he is trying to make you feel guilty in advance should he get a beating from OWH. In the very unlikely case the he gets a beating he will have earned it by his own actions in having sex with another man's wife. He should be remorseful and ashamed for having done this; he should not be trying to make YOU feel bad for what might (or most likely will not) happen to him as a result of his immoral choices.

I worry that he is using this pathetic argument to get back home, but that he will restart the affair if OW is willing. If she is scared of being on her last chance with her own H then she will not allow the affair to restart, but you don't know how seriously she takes her H's threat. Clearly OW does not want to leave her H, but she might still want the thrill of the affair.

Your situation seems to be the reverse of my own, where OW strongly wanted to leave her H but would not do so alone, and my H did not want to leave his marriage but loved having his affair. I suspect that your H was more willing to leave his marriage than OW was hers. She dumped him on exposure; my H kept dumping OW when I found new evidence of the affair's continuance.

I think that if you let H come back there should be tangible and painful consequences for him if he restarts the affair. If there are not, he can come home saying "I'll give it a go; I've nothing to lose. Living with kadens is better than sleeping on floors. If OW and I ever get back together I win; if not, I am better off at home than on my own." He has nothing to lose by going back home, but you do have, if he restarts the affair. You know how horrible it feels to go through false recovery after false recovery.

Transferring some or most of your joint assets to you alone would give you and your daughter some financial security if the marriage ends later. Counselling with the Harleys would give your marriage the bet chance of long-term success. You should also ask for openness and transparency, such as access to his mobile phone and email accounts, but you should be learn from others here how easy it is for him to buy a secret phone and open an email account that he never uses from home.

You need to draw up a contract that is favourable to you and make him sign it before he comes home. Now that he is out of the house and wanting to return, you are at an advantage. You must set tough conditions for his return so that you do not squander that advantage.

I felt the same way in the beginning because I called the OW and left a nasty message and she texted my WS to never contact her again. I also told OWH everything and went by her house and told her off to her face. She dropped my WS so fast that it made his head spin. I do believe that he wants to be with me now but I still feel like second best at lot of the time. I am not very far along in this process and my emotions are still all over the place. Somedays are definitely better than others. Don't decide anything while you are still raw and in shock. Let the dust settle first. You may be surprised that your WS does come around and may be sincere. It takes time and honesty for both of your heads to clear. If your husband is still lying, he is not ready.

My only point is that if the BS only allows the WS back because the WS is truly repentant and really wants to rebuild the M, there would be far fewer success stories. IMO, the larger percentage of WS initially return to the M because they have to (or at least cannot immediately run off with AP) - not because they want to.

I also don't believe most BSs could live the rest of their married lives thinking they were second choice even though during the A they clearly were second choice (or worse).

The M can only be worked on when BS and WS are together. If BS wants to try, WS has to come back and the reason isn't important except possibly for the morale of the BS.

The S became a WS during the A. Time is needed to make the "W" go away. Once the "W" does go away, the reason the FWS remains in the M may bear no resemblance to why they initially came back. In fact if the reason for staying doesn't change, the BS will likely seek divorce or else have their own A.

When gemela first came back, she had no other plausible alternative. While shacking up with pool boy at his parents' house might have seemed romantic, she was more pragmatic than that. I know she thought every day about wanting to be there. I had to push that out of my mind and work my Plan A. It was absolutely painful knowing she had those feelings.

Now things are different. Gemela is here because this is where she wants to be. If I ever think differently, I'll dissolve the M myself. I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me. I'm pretty sure I could find someone who did want me if the need (and desire) arose.

Simply put, most BSs have to swallow a lot of pride in the early stages. I think most of us had that feeling that we were the only option on the table. Everything about the A works to destroy the self-esteem of the BS. This "default" feeling both feeds that and is derived from that. Poor self-esteem feeds on itself and, contrary to thermodynamic theory, it can actually grow as a result. Sort of like a perpetual motion machine.

stillstanding2,

I'm sorry but I don't think you should believe that your H wants to be with you now - not yet. Only last Wednesday 4 March on your own thread you posted

"Now I just found his profile on mate1.com:
In a relationship
Looking for women 30-40

He denies signing up!!! It has his picture!!! I want a divorce!"

You got hardly any response to that post and in my opinion it has not been dealt with thoroughly.

You are telling kadens to let the dust settle and that her H might come round and be sincere. Are you judging this on your own experience? I'm not bashing you, stillstanding2, but you should not be "letting the dust settle" in your own case, nor advising kadens to do so in hers.

Doing something does not necessarily mean divorcing him, but it does mean verifying the end of the affair and seeking protection for yourself in case it never ends or another affair starts (with someone else - likely in your case, stillstanding2).

pio,

I'm not sure if you're taking issue with something I said, but I hope not. I did try to say that I agree with this reasoning and I have seen it work here.

I was more concerned on kadens's behalf with the potential for false recovery. She has been through this many times, it seems, and I think that she might well go through it again. I just think she should protect herself. That is not to say that she should reject H's attempt to return, but that she should do whatever she can to to use her position to her own advantage. He is out of the home, and out of the marriage, and wants to return. kadens has something valuable (the marriage, the home, the family life and her love) that H wants back. She should set the bar high before she gives him those things

I've no experience with plans for returning home, but I'm hoping that others who have been here will help soon. There are a few active posters who have been in Plan B (not quite kadens's situation, I know) and who learned the hard way not to let the WS return to the marriage on easy-come, easy-go terms.

I'm very scarred by my own false recovery experiences. I try to help others avoid these.

I agree that I am no expert. What I meant by "let the dust settle" is to continue investigating and watching the actions that follow and giving yourself time to adjust to your new reality. In my case, I posted before I talked to my WS about my latest discovery. Most of what I have discovered has occured prior to discover date. When I told my WS what I had discovered on the dating website, he immediately rushed home from work, told me that I was not going to leave him over this and we looked at the website together.He was very repentant and we looked at the website and it showed that he signed up last May (when he was deep in the A) and had 64 unread messages. My weblogger program shows screenshots and he did not enter the website. He clicked on an email but clicked out when he saw what it was. He has removed his profile. I believe him because I can prove what he said with my own programs that I have in place to verify everything he says not because his words sounded good. I did not update my thread because of lack of response. I felt like the thread had grown cold. Letting the dust settle doesn't mean closing your eyes again. They definitely have to stay open. But I do want to believe that we can recover and am taking it one verifiable day at a time.

I'm only trying to address the thread title. I want kadens to know that the feeling is normal but is not necessarily an obstacle and certainly is not a priority at this point. She needs to focus on what is important which is to set some pretty strict guidelines. WH's feelings cannot be part of those guidelines because neither one of them can control those.

Kadens: Sorry you are here and strength to you as a fellow WS!

Don't feel like you are the default person here. Remember, you WH's brain fell out of his head! He's foggy and full of affair-speak. He's not the person you married...pretty much brain damaged right now!

I agree with previous posts...take your time and really look at your marriage and your life. Think about what YOU want.

I've been through this TWICE and both DDays the affair was pretty much over. My wife didn't have the balls to make decision between me and OMs, just played out affairs until they died...and only THEN did I find out.

Once the fog and withdrawal clears you will begin to see your former spouse return. But be warned, it takes a LONG time.

Be patient, keep reading here and snoop! Keylog your computer, watch phone records, even voice record your hubby's car. Snoop, snoop, snoop. Protect yourself.

I'm very glad to hear about this, stillstanding2. I wish you the best and hope that things continue to improve.

The thing is, DNU1, that kadens's H is not in her home. She locked him out after the last D Day. It will be difficult to snoop while he is not living at home.

However, kadens should seek verification, as you suggest. I just don't think it can be done by snooping.

I'm not responding to the thread title here, but this is the only thread that kadens seems to have, and I see a worrying situation that can be turned into a positive; that's why I keep banging on about conditions for return.

H is out of the house. He wants back in. Kadens should set tough conditions for his return, don't you think?

kadens, is this is his only affair? How long did it go on? How long married? When you say you have given him multiple chances, what does that mean? Does that mean you gave him numerous chances to end THIS affair?

He did decide. He decided to have BOTH.

And he had both until you messed up his deal and exposed him. Affairs thrive on secrecy and you ruined his fun! Guess you aren't a very good enabler.

She can still check phone records and look at his e-mail if she's got password. And show up at his work and drop a GPS in his car + voice recorder in there also. Covert...snoop!


Yes, set bar high! Demand complete transparency should he return...but that doesn't mean she shouldn't snoop now. Or at least try to. Heck, even hire a PI to follow him

Hi Kadens,

Sorry you are part of the BS club but you have come to a great place to help you get through this nightmare.

Waywards are insane. Waywards are insane!!!! You're WH is no different. The most important thing is that the A is over. Do NOT let your WH guilt you into taking him back with his bs about OWH wanting to kill him. If anything I'd use this as an opportunity to put the fear of God in him and agree with a lot of what Sugar said.

WH is out of the house and his disgusted family has turned him away...let him feel the consequences of his choice to have an A. My FWH dumped OW but no matter who dumps who the BS still deals with the ill effects of the betrayal. I did not have to use Plan A or Plan B to end FWH's A since he dumped OW and was a cake eater. I tossed him out of the house. I didn't have recovery on my mind at the time but I did want a better father for my children than the sack of [censored] they had now. My FWH felt the weight of his consequences and I pounded them over his head for extra effect. Not the MB way, but I also didn't know of MB back then either. Although even if I had, I'm not sure it would have made a difference in my initial post Dday tactics.

I wanted FWH to see just how messed up he was. Family, friends, co-workers...they were all disgusted and disappointed in him and they let him know it. I exposed to my children (using age appropriate lingo). Innocent questions to FWH from the children made him sick with himself and he had to face what a terrible father and human being he was not just a terrible husband.

Long story short, make him feel the consequences. During this time, please go see your doctor for STD screening. Think about what you won't tolerate should you allow him to come home. You have the upper hand here. If H is afraid of OWH breaking his face...GOOD! I told my FWH ANYONE who boinks someone's spouse should be prepared to get his face kicked in at the very least. WTH do they expect? If you are still on speaking terms with OWH, call him to confirm WH's claims and try to leave the possibility of future communication open with him. Do not tell WH of any info from OWH. Let his head explode.

Once WH has been run over a few dozen times, if you are interested in R, you can always peel him off the asphalt and show him the way home.

This affair stuff is not funny...and I should not be laughing...nor should I ever recommend non-MB ways of dealing with the affair...but I wish I'd done what b_r did. If you're going the non-MB way, that's the way to do it! She did not say it here, but b_r slapped WH as well. From what I can gather, he took all that she threw at him because he was ashamed of himself and fearful of what he stood to lose. Your H should be made to feel like that too.

I think I was trying to say, in my first post to you kadens, that you are putting the cart before the horse in talking about "getting WH by default". It seemed premature to talk about feelings of resentment - as if you were allowing him back into the marriage - when (I thought) you needed to deal with false recovery first.

Your feelings of resentment might take a long time to go away even with committed behaviour from H, but you might be able to reduce those feelings if you make him demonstrate his worthiness before you let him back in the marriage. Don't make yourself the default choice (even though you will feel that you are, for a long time). You are precious and valuable and your H should feel himself lucky if you give him another chance. Make him show how much he needs you.

LOL A stuff isn't funny at all, but... And I did NOT slap H...I punched him...twice. I am NOT advocating violence though. The night I cracked H upside the head was our breaking point and believe it or not I did it to save him, literally. It was scary and I felt We've both ridden the roller coaster since then but it has NEVER been as bad as then and it never will be.

MB did help me in a variety of other ways.

kadens, I'm hoping that you are awake now and will post to us soon!

This statement from weaves expresses beautifully what I have been trying to say.


You've apparently been through a lot of false recoveries (FRs), kadens, as have I. If you want to avoid any more you need to stop doing the same thing over again and examine what needs to change.

I was the scared BS that weaves talks about, and I suffered many FRs as a result. I think b_r has said that she was the BS who did not want her WS back - that is why she threw him out immediately. She did not even consider taking him back until he demonstrated change. I know that, probably as a direct result, she has not felt nearly as second best as I did, or for as long, although I think most BSs feel that way to some degree.

Your WS (and mine) seems to be the kind who discovered that he could fence-sit. Your WS, like weaves's was then, seems also to be one that is in it to get the most for himself that he can.

You have had many kicks before coming here. Now you are here, you need to look at what it would take for you to be strong and not act from a place of extreme need and insecurity.

You said that you did not want your daughter growing up with divorced parents. I felt this way too, for my children. However, when you allow that wish to override your high principles you might end up making decisions that are bad for your daughter, and which set a bad example to her - such as taking back an unrepentant WS who will only abuse your fears yet again.

weaves's statement is on the "False Recoveries" thread, which is currently on page 2 of this forum. I think you will be much helped by reading that thread.