I'm 51, and my wife is 46. We have one eight-year-old son. Been married for twelve and a half years.

She wants a divorce. She has some pretty good reasons for this, but the reasons are in the past. There's no OM or OW involved, just us.

For the backstory, see my first post of three years ago, and then the one from just a few days ago.

My first post

Where things stand now

An incredibly compressed summary, for those that don't want to read the long posts: I caused her a lot of pain over many years because I could not accept her being fat. She had weight loss surgey and lost about 100 pounds, and all her repressed anger over my treatment of her came up. In this process, I have done some therapy, and have discovered what whas driving me to be so hurtful, and I've changed a lot, and will continue to do so.

She sees and acknowledges the changes, but just doesn't care.

We have an eight-year-old son, and I am determined to spare him the pain of having his parents split like mine did when I was eight. The unresolved abandonment issues surrounding that divorce is what has brought me to this point today.

So ... currently, she's unshakable in her plan for a divorce. If it were just the two of us, I would grieve, but I could accept that because of my feelings of guilt.

Currently, we are still maintaining the fiction (for Ty) that all is OK - we still sleep in the same bed, although we never touch. She simply says that whatever love that she had for me in the past is completely gone, and since it is completely gone, she has no wish to try to repair the marriage at all.

We're civil, almost friendly. In part due to my new awareness of my "stuff", we've had more and better conversations about our son, and other issues, than ever before. I'm learning to ignore my need to be "right" all the time.

She wants to have everything planned out, before we tell Ty - where each of us is moving, what school he'll go to, etc. She really wants to move to where her sister lives, which is over two hours away in another state, and she'd like to do that in time for him to start there in the fall. I'm am not OK with that right now. Having her sister and parents close by may be convenient for her, and nice for Ty, but it in NO way makes up for having Dad be so far away, in my opinion.

Because of circumstances here (huge house in need of repairs, school year issues, etc.) it looks like we'd be staying together in this house for many more months. To add to the fun, I work from home, and have a lot of equipment here as well. I can't just pick up and move out.

I'm starting to accept that she wants out, but I'm also getting more fearful of how I'm going to handle this period.

I'm torn between suggesting that she get an apartment for herself and Ty, and see what she thinks of the life of a working single mother, and being glad that she's still here so that I might be able to persuade her give it another go.

I've been doing Plan A for all I'm worth for the last two months or so. For an additional two months before that, I was trying, but not quite getting there. I think I've pretty much eliminated LB's, and on the odd occasion when I do screw up, I apologize as soon as I can, but the last time I got a look that very clearly said "don't bother."

Financially, she'll have no problems - she is currently doing very well, and makes at least 50% more than I do, but I do not think that she's given much thought to how difficult life is going to be on her own.

I would have to stay in this house, and continue the cleanup and repair process, and hope that we would be able to sell it with the economy as it is.

Is it too late? Should I go to Plan B? But how can you do a Plan B in the same house? I also worry that Plan B would simply look an awful lot like how I was treating her when I was in withdrawal.

There has to be an OM. Fatso is gone. Skinny hot minny loves the attention she is getting.

Need to check phone records, keylogger on the computer.

There is no OM, other than an imagined future one.

The one who accepts her, fat or not fat, and cherishes her. I could be him, if she'd let me.

I'm certain of this.

Have you read "The Passionate Marriage" By David Snarch? I found it very helpful for me. I highly recommend it. It's a big, deep book. Be prepared to spend some time soaking in the concepts.

I'm getting a divorce. My husband doesn't want me for the very same reasons you didn't want your wife. This has been coming for a long time. I weigh over 300 lbs. Apparently I'm an amazing, talented, bright, fun, caring woman, and he cares for me, except that I'm entirely unattractive to him. And that's why he went off to have an affair, and why he's using porn, still. And why he felt the need to withdraw from all aspects of our life together and behave like a complete idiot.

If I lost all the excess weight tomorrow, and he was suddenly attracted to me, I'd still divorce him. Because he's not a good man. He's made no efforts to be a good man for me. Suddenly he's seeing that without him, I'm not falling apart. That I'm moving on in a healthy direction. And now he wants to "save face" and for the first time in five years, is behaving as if he's concerned for me. Because he wants to not be the bad guy. It's just another one of his things that he does, so he doesn't have to feel so bad about himself. I'm just waiting for when his life bottoms out and he gets a reality check.

It sounds like you finally got your reality check. That's good...for you. That's your experience. It's not your wife's, however. It is going to be very difficult to get past the pain. Really difficult. Your wife is looking to shore up her self-respect. Staying with you, knowing how you loathed looking at her and touching her, pretty hard to get past. But you know that.

All you can do now is be the man you truly want to be. Build integrity in yourself, make life choices that are meaningful to you, treat her with genuine respect. And if you love her, give her space. When she feels safe with you again, she may respond to you.

I have to say, you are seriously projecting your experience of divorce on to your son. I don't mean to belittle the pain that divorce inflicts on children, but your experience of divorce is yours. Not his. The absolutely best thing you can do is be the best man you can be, and the best father you can be. Back when your parents divorced, there was all sorts of trauma heaped upon children from broken homes...even that term implies something horrible. You aren't destined to repeat that. You have the power to make the experience very different for your son. And it's an opportunity for you to redefine the experience for yourself.

JP

JP,

Thank you for your thoughtful comments.
I haven't read that one. I'll take a look on Amazon. I've mostly been reading books on the aftereffects of childhood traumas. Search for anything by David Richo. Amazingly powerful stuff.
I'm so very sorry to hear all this.
But what if he figured out why he did these things, and was able to change the dysfunctional parts of himself? Perhaps it's not about being "bad", but about being "broken" instead?

In that case, is there nothing of value to be saved?

In my case, I have the feeling that it really wasn't *me* doing and saying these things. There was an eight-year-old boy in my head, screaming in pain and fear, lashing out in every direction, trying to keep himself "safe". It amazes me to discover this after 43 years, and even more so because two different therapists pointed this out within 20 minutes of talking to me.

One told my wife, "Don't take it personally, if it wasn't your weight, it would have been something else."
Yes. I truly get how much pain I caused. My hope was that my remorse and apologies and changed behavior would have helped her to regain self-respect, rather than divorcing me. I have been divorced once before, and it really doesn't make it better. This one certainly won't.
That's what I'm trying to do. It's difficult to give her space, given that we're still in this house together - if we split, there is *so much* to deal with - yet I don't want to start the process if there's the slightest chance that time might heal these wounds. And I'm still very reactive to any little thing that I perceive as an opening. Trying to read the tea leaves, so to speak. I shouldn't do this, but it's hard not to.

As to feeling safe ... she says that she couldn't. She says she could gain weight again and that I've proven that I can't handle that. (But that wasn't really *me* !) She says that there's simply no love left whatsoever to motivate her to try, and that even if there were she thinks she'd have to "stuff" her anger again in order to do it. Appealing to her sense of honor, as in honoring her vows would only piss her off more.
Yes, I'm aware that there's some projecting going on. At the same time I can't ignore my own experience. And it cannot possibly be a *positive* thing for him, even though our home wasn't filled with affection between my wife and myself, it was not filled with rancor either. And if she could forgive me, it would be filled with love and affection in the future.

I told her, "Give me an inch, and I'll give you a mile."

MH

"There is no OM, other than an imagined future one."

And how have you verified this?

Do you know how many H's show up here with the same story as you.
After snooping they find out there is an OM. You don't have to pull your head out of the sand just bcause I say so. Though how about for the other's I have mentioned?

Please take my word for it. In any case, she simply wouldn't have the time.

Chasing red herrings will not help me.

Does not have the time?

Full time job with a one hour lunch every day.

Do you the number of WW and OM lunch time hookups take place?

Have you read up on how to plan A.

Yes, familiar with plan A. Although I should probably go and refresh my memory.

As to the possibility of an affair; she's in the office only one to three days a week, other than that she works at home, as do I. We keep a very busy schedule, and much of it is done together.

But the bigger point is that I know precisely why she's where she is now, and it makes sense. What doesn't make sense (at least to me) is her inability to see the huge downside of her plan for our future, and her refusal to see any upside in staying together.

We could get through this and come out great. Maybe not, but after twelve years and a son ... why not at least *try*????

Until now, she had not even acknowledged the issues, much less attempted to deal with them.

She probably felt the same way about you, why couldn't you see things differently...you can't force her to "see the light". Only she can come to that decision. In her own time. Don't you want her coming to you because she really wants you?

You keep working on you...that's all you have control over. Live life without filtering your experiences through your past.

JP

I would do 3 things.

Take steps to ensure she doesn't move away. Whatever it takes.

Start working on a 3-year plan that includes a possibly long-term relationship with her; women take SO much longer to learn to trust again. And our looks are more than guys consider them to be, to us.

And realize if she is not acknowledging issues, she has deeper stuff to work on. Be there for her.

Seriously, if you are telling her "that wasn't really me" you need to stop...because that really was you at that time.

Hearing those words, to me, would sound like a man who now sees the wife he always wanted...losing weight, becoming more attractive, etc...and realizes he has to do some damage control or he is going to lose her.

Telling her that wasn't you, is not accepting the responsibility of your words/actions that hurt her very deeply.

I've accepted responsibility for everything, and apologized over and over. But I have also discovered what was driving me, and it's something I plan to leave behind. That frantic eight-year-old boy inside - his fight to keep the world away - driving her away too. It is in that sense only that I say it wasn't me --- it wasn't the adult me. Still my fault, and still acknowledged and regretted deeply.

I have come a long way in a couple of months, and I have hope and a plan to continue to change, until I can just be me, without fear and without shame. Or at least not so controlled by the fear and shame from the past.

Even she says that she's seen changes in me.

I'm sure she did. If only I had ...

If only ... if only ...

Your last bit of advice is the hardest; it's why I'm continuing in therapy and trying to do my "homework", which is to comfort the little guy. Meaning that little guy still crying inside.

It would be hard to get through this, even with your wife's help; to do it under these conditions is just brutal.

An idea came to me today, a plan that is taking shape. My father is still alive, and I'm going to go see him and talk to him about his divorce from my mother. This will be the chance that he never really had to comfort his son. My father won't let me down, and I know, deep down inside me, that it will really help me to jump-start this process of letting go of my defenses.

Yes, moving away is out of the question for right now. I don't think she could force that issue successfully, either.

Gods ... I hope this doesn't take three years, but if it does, it does.

In her opinion, the issue that she used to have was putting up with abuse. But that is past.

Right now, she thinks her only issue is getting loose (at any cost)from someone she doesn't want to be married to because he hurt her too much and she simply doesn't feel any love for him any longer.

But she went from a sudden realization of all the "stuffed" anger, to a determination to divorce in all of 40 days or less.

I wouldn't believe that she is over it for a second. Of course you want it to be over because dealing with your penance sucks. We want to be forgiven, forgotten, and start over. She doesn't want to relive all that pain, so she wants it over as well. She can't just forget though, and she can't just reset her bank balance back to zero, using MB terms. But I don't think it's over.

I say this because you're going to treat her right and expect a positive response, but you won't get that because in MB terms, you've got a negative balance. Way negative. You aren't going to see a positive response in long time, and you need to remember that to keep from getting discouraged.

By "only issue" and "past", I meant that she doesn't feel she has anything to gain by individual therapy, the way that I do.

Good Lord ... I *know* she's not "over" anything!

But your point about an extremely negative love-bank balance is well-taken and I hadn't quite thought about it in those terms. I can see now why it's going to take a long time before I could possibly dream of getting any positive feedback.

Ouch. Ouch. Ouch.

It just hurts so damn much, knowing what's hanging in the balance, and then knowing which way the balance is weighted now and by how much.

Sometimes I wish I was still "stupid", and was still full of self-righteous anger instead of being consumed with guilt and remorse. I'm not sure I was any happier then, but it was easier!

So I found my salvation in action movies.

I probably only thought about my situation 56 times in three and a half hours (two movies) instead of constantly.

But I had an epiphany; I get how this "married" thing is supposed to work now. (Boy am I late to the party!) I'm thinking that this is what was supposed to be happening all along.

In all the gorgeous females on the screen, I saw Beth's beautiful green eyes ... I saw her lips, her breasts.

She's EveryWoman to me. An archetype.

I get it now.

To answer my own question, yes, it is.

I can't control what she wants, thinks or does. And she wants out.

Last night I essentially "showed her the door".

I agreed with all her complaints, agreed that she couldn't ever forgive nor trust me again, and then told her that the charade must end --- we tell our son NOW, we quit sleeping in the same bedroom, we let the rest of the world (our social world) know, and we quit trying to function together as an intact family.

The intent right now is that she move out (locally) with Ty, while we work on this house. I'm not sure about that --- an in-house separation might be OK, but it would make it more difficult to "move on" for all of us.

If they move out, she gets a taste of what life as a single mother will be like, and Ty gets to ease into "Dad isn't here anymore" without being over two hours away.

I get to ease into "single life" without him being over two hours away as well.

I'm angry. I can't help it. It didn't have to be this way.