MH, I agree with you that it's important to understand your FOO, and that demeaning yourself over past mistakes or living with guilt is not the way to go.

You know who you are and what your worth, so does God. That doesn't mean it's so easy for everyone else to see that. In MB terms, your wife has a very negative love bank when it comes to you because of all that has happened. You can't expect her to ignore that, and it needs to be respected.

You don't need validation from her that you have worth and you are unlikely to get it for a very long time if at all. All you can do is live today the way you know how, doing what you know you should. I don't know what it is you need to do, but proving to others that you have changed, and you are not the person you used to be is not it. They will see you for who you are when they are ready to.

I think this is the best advice I've gotten. It's hard to follow when you have a passionate attachment to a particular outcome.

I think what's making it so hard to let go, and accept Beth's decision is that I'm finally realizing that what I've done and what I've been over the years didn't just hurt Beth, and hurt me, and it won't be confined to the past.

Even though I'm no longer doing what I did, and trying to be someone different now, my past mistakes are moving into the future to hurt my son. And I can't seem to stop that from happening no matter how hard I try. Future guilt ... coming to catch up with me for past sins.

It's like a plot from a bad time-travel science fiction novel.

I want to make it better, but I can't.

MH

I disagree. I have seen men who no longer live with their kids, who have resolved to become the most amazing father in the world. And pretty much succeeded.

Being a great father isn't about logistics. It's about time, concern, interaction, guidance, love, sacrifice, and faith.

I often say that there is only one true thing that a child needs to flourish: to know that he is loved unconditionally. As long as that child knows he is WANTED, and LOVED, he can accomplish anything in life.

If you indeed separate and divorce, you can choose two paths. To go your own way, try to start a new life with a new woman, and give your son what time you have left. Which will leave him feeling like a waste of your time.

Or you can live a parallel life, moving as close as possible to his home, ensuring that you are there for every baseball game, every Scout meeting, every concert, every crying jag over a girl...sharing his life with your ex-wife. As friends.

And he will grow up knowing love. And maybe even having faith enough in the institution of marriage to give it a try himself one day.

MiserableHubby,
You seem to assume that your son's experience of your divorce will be equivalent to your experience of your parents' divorce. I want to suggest to you that that is a faulty assumption. We know a lot more today about the effect of divorce on children and what strategies to follow to mitigate the worst effects.

I'm not saying divorce has no effect. I'm saying that if you learn the best ways to get your son through the experience, he won't end up like you did.

My parents separated (then divorced) when I was 7 and my brother was 3. Today we are both very happy, healthy, productive members of society. I am blissfully married to a man who claims to be just as happy as I am. There are plenty of people who come through their parents' divorce without the deep psychological wounds you bare. If you apply yourself, you can ensure that's the case for your son as well.

This is what my father did. Although I must add that he and my mother were never ever friends.

We spent almost every single weekend with my father, and went on vacation with him once a year. They do visitation differently now -- both parents often get at least one weeknight and alternate weekends. The idea is that both parents should have an active role in both the school life and the fun life of the child. It's a bit more challenging logistically, but it can be done.

My father always maintained bedrooms in his home for us. He made it very clear that we had TWO HOMES -- we weren't guests in his house. When my parents first split, my father rented an apartment in the complex next to my mother's apartment complex. If we had been older, we could have ridden our bikes between the two. He drove by and said hello to me at the bus stop as I waited to go to school every morning. My mom hated it because she thought he was keeping tabs on her (he was), but he was also doing it to be close to us. When my mom moved us to a house, he bought on in a neighboring development.

Thanks all for the encouragement.

I'm certainly resolved that he won't share my experience. I tell him every single day that I love him more than anything in the world.

Logistics are going to be a problem - she's planning on moving 2 1/2 hours away, and realistically there's no way that I could follow in anything less than a year. I'm hoping to be able to keep this house, so that there'd be some stability for him when he's "visiting". It's going to be a stretch; business isn't good right now.

We are talking about him being with me for most of the summer --- actually swapping physical custody then, and Beth to have visitation. It's too far away to see him for a weeknight, so alternate weekends during the school year are what we're talking about now.

I think that I'm doing, or trying to do the right things as far as this stuff is concerned, but it doesn't help much with how I *feel*.

MH

Wait a minute. Are you guys already divorced? If not, how can she pick up and move your son away from you? Have you got a lawyer involved?

Cat,

No, not yet.

Here's the plan (her plan). We stay here in this house through the end of the school year. We negotiate custody issues and property division, do the legal work and she wants to be in PA in time for the start of the next school year.

Her parents and sister live up there ... she'll need the built-in babysitting since she'll have to overnight at least once a week for work, which will be an hour and a half south - she's been told that they want her in the office a minimum of two days a week. She makes about 2 1/2 times what I do, so it's not a job she would want to give up, especially now.

She is so completely committed to this plan that unless a lawyer tells me that I've got a very good chance of successfully fighting it, I'm better off giving her what she wants in return for other concessions --- like getting him for the summer.

Questioning her plan is like trying to convince her that I'm worth taking a chance on ... it's like talking to a wall.

I do have a call in to one of the best lawyers down here; he's slow to return calls, but I expect to have a chance to talk to him in a week or two, and then I'll know more about the likely outcomes if we cannot agree, and end up in court.

Today I actually managed to get my mind into my work somewhat, which was a real relief. I spend so much time agonizing over this situation that every hour seems like days. The thought of having to do this for months just makes me want to die.

NOT GOING TO DO THAT, SO DON'T EVERYBODY FREAK OUT.

Just how I feel, that's all.


MH

You need to talk to a lawyer. Or three. I have no idea what state you live in, but where I live (in Illinois, in case you didn't guess) she would have a very hard time moving that far away from you without proving your incompetence as a parent or her total inability to get a paying job within a reasonable distance. You would have to agree to a plan like this. In Illinois, they could actually give YOU temporary custody for that year because SHE is trying to leave and here, to grossly oversimplify whoever leaves (the area not the marriage) loses.

YOU are the built in overnight babysitter for YOUR OWN child.

FYI, this is also the general rule in California and Nevada. You can't just take the kids away from their other parent without a very good reason. And you getting him all summer is not great either. He is going to miss his friends and get uprooted and he will slide back to being with his mom.

You need to fight for what is right for your son and that is having his dad around and involved. Allowing this is nonsense. If you can't follow then she can't go.

She does not get to raise this child without you unless you let her do that. I recommend that you get Alec Baldwin's book about his divorce. I think hes a loon and that his kid is better off with limited contact with him, but he still is right about his biggest mistake being not just doing it the way his ex-wife wanted.

DO NOT LET GO OF YOUR CHILD!

Sorry about the 2x4

Thanks.

We're in Delaware. I'll know more after I speak with the lawyer. I'll give him another call today to get an appointment.

MH

MH, I think we get the most uncomfortable-miserable right before the next big growth spurt. There is a poster here, LovingAnyway, who is really amazing at helping folks learn how to break out of the ruts they are done with and identify where they want to go next emotionally. I think this is why you are posting, that you've made a great deal of growth, and have done the work and gotten the positive momentum for the next big leap forward. Am I getting that right? If so, I encourage you to call out to her on StillLost's thread on EN and ask her to join you here.

Ears,

Yes, I've read a lot of her posts. Some are a bit intimidatingly dense (and I mean that as heavy, full and thick - not stupid). A lot like a 90 minute session with a therapist, condensed into a few paragraphs.

Might be a good idea.

I seem to be able to break out of the rut from time to time, but not *stay* out.

As much as I'd like to agree that I "have done the work", that's not accurate - I've identified the problem, and I've started chipping away at it. It's just so bloody HUGE. My whole life has been about fear and shame, and trying to keep myself safe. And that would be "safe" as in a childish understanding of the word, not an adult understanding.

Catperson's statements about how learned responses are self-reinforcing is very accurate. It's daunting to come to realize that in just about any situation my first response is probably the exact *wrong* thing to do or say.

Frankly, it's a wonder that I'm not worse off than I am.

Well - time to get to work again. The boy's home for a second day with a sinus infection; we're headed to his doctor at 10am, then I have a session at 11am, so if I'm to get anything accomplished today, I'd better get to it.

And by the way, Ears ... if I haven't apologized to you for the things that I said several years ago ... I am sorry.

MH

I think I want to get that tattooed onto my forearm so it will always be handy.

MH, thanks for the apology, I accept it. I remember feeling like I wasn't getting it, and I was complaining about it to a good friend, and she said to me, look at you hon, your're flying! And it HIT me, I was! I didn't have to wait another minute!
And seriously, it just gets better and better from there. Even though my marriage didn't turn out the way I thought.

I hope you come back Monday, MH, and you have had a total reprieve this weekend. The stuff with your wife, doesn't hurt, you look at it and think, this is exactly where it's supposed to be today.

That's good --- I remember I made some sort of general apology in another thread, but it was not personal enough.

The last couple of days have been better - I finally forced myself to get back to work and that's kept my mind from jumping back in that rut.

I don't think I can get to the point where I think it's where it's supposed to be, but I sure hope I can at least stop worrying about it for fifteen minutes here and there.

MH

Ears,

I don't know if I'm cut out for this struggle, as I'm already losing my love for her.

STBX and son spent Sunday up north for STBX's mother's 70th birthday party. When they got back, Ty told me about a house Mom had looked at just down the street from Aunt Wendy's.

This morning, STBX related that she hadn't told him, he'd just guessed. I replied that it didn't matter, because he knew what her plans were, and that while it wasn't certain, it was likely to go that way.

As I was talking to her, it hit me that at this point if we were to try to stay together, I'd have just about as hard a time accepting her back as she would have accepting me.

In my last counseling session, my therapist asked me, "Do you really want to be with someone who refuses to look at their own issues, or take responsibility for their part?"

My response was that for the sake of my son, I'd want to try, and that I figured with time, perhaps she would work on them, and between the two of us changing, we'd make it.

Now I don't know. I guess that's possible, but I don't feel as inspired by that possibility as I used to.

It's really, really funny - on Saturday I had a long talk with my eight-year-old son, explaining as well as I could in an age-appropriate manner just why this all was happening. I told him that I felt guilty that he was going through this because of things that I had done in the past. Do you know what an eight-year-old saw? He said, "Don't feel so bad, Dad. It's not all your fault. Mom was there too, you know."

Out of the mouths of babes, indeed. It's telling that a kid can see that, but she can't. Nope, she's got no part in this at all, and no "issues". Sure!

Oh well. Now I have to wait until the 26th, to see what the attorney has to say about the likelihood of her plan being acceptable to a Delaware court if I decided to fight it, and just what the likely distribution of assets would be in light of the disparity in our incomes and ages. Not to mention the possibility, however remote, that I might be able to keep Ty with me.

She was not happy to hear that I was deferring any further planning until after that appointment.

It's a long wait, but it was the first available time.

(Somewhat Less)M(STBX)H

MH, I think that is part of this, too, Plan A, the "reality bringer." Do you think this may be healthier in a way, the loving detachment? You are taking steps, like meeting with a family law attorney, that protect your family long-term from temporary circumstances. And if the situation becomes more long-term, then it will be important then that you took these steps, too. If you read on the board, it is hard to figure out what is "too stuck in what was" to take steps to protect the family. None of it was obvious to me, either. That's one of the reasons I asked you about your support network, because it's important that you are getting the support you and your family needs, like the attorney.

That's really tough, what you discussed with your son. I think it was really important that he saw you as someone he was comfortable to talk with, and that he is not blaming himself, as some kids do. I am glad that he has your support through this, and I think this shift in the present will help make amends for what wasn't there for you when you were at that age.